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Todd - He did wrong, but so did we

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    #61
    Originally posted by StarOcean View Post
    Wait. What?! You sure it wasn't sarcasm? That doesn't make sense.
    That's what I thought.
    "DasNDanger also writes: “C. Todd seemed to link telepathically with his ship in those final moments of descent…is this a correct assumption?”

    Answer: Although it did seem like a telepathic link, it’s clear from previous episodes that the wraith control their ships via manual operation."
    I think JM is a bit confused.

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      #62
      Ha! If the wraith control their ships with manual operations alone, why is Teyla the only human able to fly their hives?

      as said in Spoils of War
      TEYLA: I cannot explain it. The moment I connected with the ship, everything became available to me. I can feel the various systems at my disposal.
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        #63
        Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
        Then why should Todd be grateful when Sheppard merely lets him go at the end of "Infection"? How is it not merely a payback, and even less honourable than Todd's one? In "Common Ground", Sheppard's best interest is to free Todd to help with his own escape. Then Todd puts himself in personal danger to save his very life. In "Infection", Todd sacrifices his chance at a quick and painless death to save the lives of Sheppard's entire crew. Then Sheppard merely lets him go, with a good probability Todd will die anyway.
        Merely lets him go? You say that like Todd doesn't know the location of Atlantis and that's he not their enemy in general. A more logical solution by military standards would be to kill him or lock him up since he's a security risk. Even if they think he'll probably die, Atlantis has put a lot of faith into Todd.

        Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
        3 hives are enough to destroy one 304 with über-beams in "The Last Man", and we also know from "Be All My Sins Remember'd" that hives can withstand a good amount of drones.
        We could argue about how many Hives to take on Atlantis all day, but in the end they are in a much more favorable position then in The Siege and attacking head on isn't the best idea.


        Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
        What he said was that it would be easy to use the drug for the benefit of wraith, yes, but only by administering it only to those whose lives were expected to be short anyway. However, converting all wraith would not be for their benefit but for the benefit of humans, hence the difficulty to convince the others. The bottom line being that renouncing to their natural diet would mean the death of their civilisation ("what would we do, who would we be?")

        How is it out of context?
        You took it out of context by trying to make it seem like that was even a reason he was considering the treatment.

        Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
        Condemning other people for doing the same you, yourself, do, is hypocrisy. Sheppard condemns Todd for protecting his kind, just as Sheppard himself does.
        Sheppard condemns him because he is the enemy. The motives make little difference.


        Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
        That's kind of our point: Both do the same. Then why is it "evil" from Todd and "good" from Sheppard? Why should Todd be punished for it by death while Sheppard should be admired?
        I don't think Todd is evil. Wraith in general take a sadistic pleasure in feeding, but hell, I love a good steak myself, so I can't say that's evil. It's the simple fact that for them to live Humans must die(at least so far) and that's not acceptable, regardless of of the good or evil behind it.


        Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
        AFAIK, Todd didn't know his crew was in danger to begin with? To him, they were better off safely in stasis than running around with a progressing cancer. That was the point of hibernation to begin with.

        Sheppard never mentioned neither the man-eating warriors neither the recurring power shortages and the lock command. Admittedly, Todd might have noticed the power shortages when he ran his diagnostic on the ship, but I'm not sure he realised what was going on with his released uncontrolled warriors.

        About the control of warriors, maybe it need to be done actively, and Todd was never aware that some of them were awake?
        I doubt the warriors need that much control. They act pretty autonomously when normal, not like things being directly controlled.

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          #64
          Originally posted by Myles View Post
          Merely lets him go? You say that like Todd doesn't know the location of Atlantis and that's he not their enemy in general. A more logical solution by military standards would be to kill him or lock him up since he's a security risk. Even if they think he'll probably die, Atlantis has put a lot of faith into Todd.
          Nope, I say he knows the location of Atlantis but is not their enemy in general. He even leans more towards the "ally" side, although he wouldn't help them if not for his benefit too (but they wouldn't help him if not for their benefit either, so the situation is mirrored).

          Of course, in the context of a war (even a cold war), the best short-term military solution is always to kill a non-threatening civilian if there is even remotely a chance said civilian becomes a terrorist. Fortunately, the military do not govern the entire world IRL, nor do they govern Atlantis. Also on the long term, it's better to have an ally among your enemies, even when the alliance is uneasy, rather than killing your best chance at preventing an all-out war.

          We could argue about how many Hives to take on Atlantis all day, but in the end they are in a much more favorable position then in The Siege and attacking head on isn't the best idea.
          I still think Todd wouldn't hesitate to attack Atlantis if he truly wanted to.

          You took it out of context by trying to make it seem like that was even a reason he was considering the treatment.
          There are two decisions. Applying the treatment on part of his crew was for his own benefit. It allowed him to save a scarce resource. But applying the treatment on all his crew, including himself, wasn't for the benefit of wraith, it only benefited humans.

          It wasn't discussed in show but I explain Todd's willingness to do something for the benefit of humans as, in fact, a willingness to do something for Sheppard. After the events of "First Contact"/"The Lost Tribe", he may have felt bad about believing Sheppard had betrayed him and his own consequent actions. It looks like once he realised his mistake, he wanted to make amends by going on with the reason he had been invited on the Daedalus to begin with.

          Unfortunately, we'll never know the real resons why he used the treatment on the entire hive including himself, but what we know is that it's not from selfish interest, because again, it didn't directly benefit them.

          Sheppard condemns him because he is the enemy. The motives make little difference.
          There is no such thing as "the" enemy; there is only "an" enemy. And while Sheppard himself may be too... military to understand the difference between circumstantial opponents and intrinsic enemies, we, the show viewers, have a wider view since we see all sides as much as TPTB show them to us.

          Moreover, if actual motives weren't the point, then why would Sheppard pretend he'd be more sympathetic hadn't Todd tried to crash the Daedalus? Again, we're back at his hypocrisy. He should have just said: "You're a wraith, I don't care that you don't feed on humans any more, I just don't intend to help you". At least, that would have been honest, and I wouldn't resent him as much.

          I don't think Todd is evil. Wraith in general take a sadistic pleasure in feeding, but hell, I love a good steak myself, so I can't say that's evil. It's the simple fact that for them to live Humans must die(at least so far) and that's not acceptable, regardless of of the good or evil behind it.
          I wouldn't call their feeding pleasure sadistic just because it implies pain and death of the human. It's physical, they can't help it. But my concern is that the characters (Sheppard here) do judge the wraith, even after they don't even feed on humans any more.

          On the other hand, I loved Teyla in "Infection". Her concern is protecting humans, but once wraith don't threaten humans any more, she doesn't welcome their suffering and death just out of spite.

          I doubt the warriors need that much control. They act pretty autonomously when normal, not like things being directly controlled.
          McKay says: "we've long suspected that they spend the majority of their life under the controlling mental influence of the other wraith", implying that the awakened warriors are not currently under mental influence like they normally are. A possibility is that warriors normally just tap into the wraith psychic network for the direction of their actions, without receiving an explicit control from faced wraith. As Todd was the only awake faced wraith, it wasn't enough to control the warriors, hence their purely instinctive behaviour.
          My Stargate Atlantis fanfictions - Wraith font
          Todd contacts Atlantis once more... (spoilers up to season 4) 1. Glimpse Into the Evil | 2. Of Wraith and Men (in progress)
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