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  1. #21
    Major Betelgeuze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by Finger13
    Asgard Hyperdrive = Ancients? We really haven't had much chance to compare the two. I doubt the Ancients were that much faster than ours.
    When the Atlantis expedition relocated Atlantis, it should have beaten the Deadalus to the new planet. This means that at least Atlantis is faster then Earth ships, even with only one ZPM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finger13
    Asgard shields on ships > Ancients
    We have not seen a fully functional Ancient warship, with shields at 100% under attack. The Asuran ships aren't identical to the Ancient Warships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finger13
    Asgard weapons > Ancients
    I'd go with the Ancients on this one. The Ancient beam weapon seen in The Siege is more powerful then the Asgard beam weapon. I also think thet the Ancient weapons are more complex then the Asgard weapons. Earth has been studying the drones for about 5 years, and they still can't build them. They were able to equip their ships with Asgard beam weapons within a year. In both cases they have the blue prints, and an example, but they still can't build Ancient drones and beam weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finger13
    Asgard beaming > Ancients
    I've wondered about this. The Ancients do seem to have beaming technology similar to the Asgard; the transporter on the Sodan world, and the transport device seen in The Quest. Maybe they liked physical exersise, or maybe they didn't have this type of beaming when they build Atlantis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giantevilhead
    I don't think Ancient holograms are better than Asgard Holograms. We don't know how much of the courage test in "Thor's Chariot" was done by holograms. The Asgard are able to project holograms at a very long distance. Also we've never seen Ancient holograms project through shields.
    Ancient holograms are more interactive then the Asgard holograms. The holograms in Avalon and Camelot can physically interact.

    The Ancients were also far more advanced in genetic enginering then the Asgard. The Ancients could alter the genetic code in every cell of an adult with their genetic modification device. And they could actually create humans.

  2. #22
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    again, the closets in atlantis that allow quick travel from one spot to another...

    they had beaming tech when they built atlantis.

  3. #23
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    but not asgard like.


    what im trying to say: need forces and determines development. the ancients didnt need superbeamingtech. asgard did. ancients put their ZPM's to good use with atlantis, as its shield is clearly made to run on them. so what im trying to say is: the ancients made as they needed. the Asgard had different needs. and thus different tech.
    the ancients needed ascention. the asgard cloned.

    asgard cloning>ancient.
    ancients research on ascention>asgard research on ascention
    though ancients had beam tech, they didnt need it as advanced as the asgard. the lost tribe managed with their exoskeletons, and thus didnt need this beaming tech, allowing more time on the cloning problem.
    drones are powerfull. but the asgard seek use in energy weapons.
    asgard energy weapons>ancient ones[ the sattelite was more like a particle cannon]
    ancient surgical/precision weapons>asgard ones.

    the drone is usefull. but to the asgard it was useless. so different needs.


    when did we have blueprints for drones? besides, the asgard developed the deadalus' hyperdrive specifically for that ship [technically the Prometheus. but prob redesigned it for teh Deadalus] we prob got the first asgard made hyperdrive, then the asgard showed us how to make our own. just as sensors ETC. the asgard had a hand in their control systems [asgard work station]. and in the beaming tech.


    so the asgard made it perfectly fit for us, gave the blueprints and showed us how to make it. the ancients never did, so we have to reverse engineer them. though drones are mindblowingly in their simplicity, its like saying your flashlight is incredibally simple, but then to a guy 200 years ago. it IS simple. but the materials, components are advanced. we can make our own drone. but it wont work as good as an acient one.


    what merlin made wasnt pure ancient tech: he was ascended remember?
    the ARG made by jack isnt pure ancient either: he was tied into the asgard vessel allowing him to access all asgard knowledge. including repliresearch. the ancients just got the stuff to DO make it work. like your car, and your neightbour has the knowhow to make a battery for it for the ignition.
    jack used the knowhow of the Dakara weapon.


    the Holograms were ascended tech. merlin clearly planned what he did, and probably made a kind of advanced repository to keep his knowledge, or just picked out what he needed on descending, and forgot the rest. he would still have the remaining Ancient knowledge.

  4. #24
    Major Betelgeuze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    I agree taht the Ancients and Asgard had different needs, and designed their technology differently because of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman
    when did we have blueprints for drones?
    This information should be in the Atlantis database.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman
    asgard energy weapons>ancient ones[ the sattelite was more like a particle cannon]
    It is still more powerfull then the Asgard beam weapon, but maybe it is not suitable for use on a ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman
    so the asgard made it perfectly fit for us, gave the blueprints and showed us how to make it. the ancients never did, so we have to reverse engineer them. though drones are mindblowingly in their simplicity, its like saying your flashlight is incredibally simple, but then to a guy 200 years ago. it IS simple. but the materials, components are advanced. we can make our own drone. but it wont work as good as an acient one
    I'm not so sure that the drones are simple. A lot of people speculate about fase shifting technology incorporated into the drones. A hypothesis i have, is that the drones abillity to penetrate matter so easily might be based on the glowing creatures seen in Prodigy. They could pass through matter without getting harmed in the process.

  5. #25
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    untrue.


    it has:

    1: a shield
    2: a powersource
    3: a comm module to communicate with a chair/control unit
    4: a kind of dampener
    5: flight stabilizing system.


    according to MGM


    Spoiler:
    Last edited by thekillman; October 30th, 2008 at 09:17 AM.

  6. #26
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    then how does it penetrate shields and physical matter so well?

  7. #27

    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuze View Post
    When the Atlantis expedition relocated Atlantis, it should have beaten the Deadalus to the new planet. This means that at least Atlantis is faster then Earth ships, even with only one ZPM.
    But the Daedalus does not have the best Asgard engines or power generators.

    We have not seen a fully functional Ancient warship, with shields at 100% under attack. The Asuran ships aren't identical to the Ancient Warships.
    The 304's are a fraction of the size of pretty much all the warships we've seen and their shields have been able to withstand more punishment than pretty much all of them.

    I'd go with the Ancients on this one. The Ancient beam weapon seen in The Siege is more powerful then the Asgard beam weapon. I also think thet the Ancient weapons are more complex then the Asgard weapons. Earth has been studying the drones for about 5 years, and they still can't build them. They were able to equip their ships with Asgard beam weapons within a year. In both cases they have the blue prints, and an example, but they still can't build Ancient drones and beam weapons.
    The Ancient satellite was huge and it housed one weapon. The 304's have several beam weapons. Also the Asgard computer core doesn't just have the blue prints, it's extremely user friendly, and it can create essential parts needed for the weapon.

    I've wondered about this. The Ancients do seem to have beaming technology similar to the Asgard; the transporter on the Sodan world, and the transport device seen in The Quest. Maybe they liked physical exersise, or maybe they didn't have this type of beaming when they build Atlantis.
    But Ancient teleporters have never displayed the range or the power of Asgard beams.

    Ancient holograms are more interactive then the Asgard holograms. The holograms in Avalon and Camelot can physically interact.
    Like I said, we don't know how much of the test in "Thor's Chariot" was created by holograms. If the whole collapsing ground thing was done by holograms then the Asgard would also have interactive holographic technology. Also, the Asgard can project their holograms through shields and at very long distances.

  8. #28
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    may i notify that a fully powered apollo wouldve beaten atlantis hands down, as it wouldve gone 4x faster?

  9. #29
    First Lieutenant Finger13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuze View Post
    When the Atlantis expedition relocated Atlantis, it should have beaten the Deadalus to the new planet. This means that at least Atlantis is faster then Earth ships, even with only one ZPM.
    That is with a ZPM though. Throw the ZPM in the Daedalus and it could be across the Pegasus extremely fast. I won't pretend to know the distances involved, but going from the MW to Pegasus in 4 days means the Daedalus could have probably got there in hours. But since Atlantis was designed for 3 ZPMs, I suppose it's far superior. Especially since adding a ZPM to Asgard drives is sort of like cheating, since the technology isn't theirs and it was designed for it.

    So I agree, Ancient drives are superior.


    We have not seen a fully functional Ancient warship, with shields at 100% under attack. The Asuran ships aren't identical to the Ancient Warships.
    Why aren't they the same? Their Atlantis was, if anything, equal to ours was it not? It had more drives on the underside, but that's the only substantial difference that I can recall. Why wouldn't their warships be the same also? Maybe a different design, but do we know for a fact that the tech and shields are any different? Or is speculation? Because it seems odd to perfectly recreate Atlantis and be able to manufacture ZPM's, then to build cheap knock offs of Ancient warships.

    I'd go with the Ancients on this one. The Ancient beam weapon seen in The Siege is more powerful then the Asgard beam weapon. I also think thet the Ancient weapons are more complex then the Asgard weapons. Earth has been studying the drones for about 5 years, and they still can't build them. They were able to equip their ships with Asgard beam weapons within a year. In both cases they have the blue prints, and an example, but they still can't build Ancient drones and beam weapons.
    I did forget about the beam weapon in the Siege, that was quite impressive. And it was powered by a Naquadah generator, so it wasn't power hungry either. I was talking about ship weapons though, the drones are amazing weapons, and yeah I guess they're more versatile too, but they still lack the endurance of the Asgard beam weapons and the kill rate. Hit a Hive with 3 or 4 seconds of fire from the beam weapon and it's down, where as drones not only take their time getting to the enemy, but they then have to pass through it several times to destroy it.

    I think the Ancient weapons are more impressive and versatile, but that doesn't mean they're more powerful than the Asgard beams. Like I said before, complexity doesn't mean superiority.

    I've wondered about this. The Ancients do seem to have beaming technology similar to the Asgard; the transporter on the Sodan world, and the transport device seen in The Quest. Maybe they liked physical exersise, or maybe they didn't have this type of beaming when they build Atlantis.
    But again, those examples are point to point transporters. I don't know if that makes it easier to build, I suppose all you would need are some sensors and you could start beaming anywhere, but we haven't seen this. So there is no evidence that the Ancients can beam people at random locations to random locations, only fixed locations that are predetermined.

    I never quite understood the rings though. Sometimes it seems like they need another platform to send people to, yet in other episodes they are able to pick things up without another ring platform, like the Kull Warrior that they abduct in Season... 7?

    But even still, Asgard beaming technology has been shown to be more capable in its versatility. Maybe the Ancients could do the same, but the examples that we have been shown say otherwise.

    Ancient holograms are more interactive then the Asgard holograms. The holograms in Avalon and Camelot can physically interact.
    Precisely.

    The Ancients were also far more advanced in genetic enginering then the Asgard. The Ancients could alter the genetic code in every cell of an adult with their genetic modification device. And they could actually create humans.
    That could have saved the Asgard a lot of trouble lol.

  10. #30
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    back to square one:


    1: what merlin made isnt ancient made. he was ascended.
    2: atlantis was fully powered. apollo wasnt. the hyperdrives are working at 1/4th of their capability. adding a ZPM isnt cheating. but you could also just add some better asgard powersource

  11. #31
    Brigadier General Buba uognarf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    back to square one:


    1: what merlin made isnt ancient made. he was ascended.
    2: atlantis was fully powered. apollo wasnt. the hyperdrives are working at 1/4th of their capability. adding a ZPM isnt cheating. but you could also just add some better asgard powersource
    Atlantis had a single ZPM. Thats not fully powered is it? Seeing as before we've been told to fly the ship 3 is needed, now we know 3 is required to fly it safely.
    Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

  12. #32
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    but theres a difference in flying at topspeed and flying safely. atlantis had those safeguards, so if something happened, you wouldnt be dead in space.

  13. #33
    Brigadier General Buba uognarf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    but theres a difference in flying at topspeed and flying safely. atlantis had those safeguards, so if something happened, you wouldnt be dead in space.
    Atlantis has to maintain shields in hyperspace something which is apparently impossible for Asgard ships even with 4 NIG's. Its possible that to limit the strain on the single ZPM they didn't push the hyper drive to its max. It was probably not working at its full potential not to mention that we know it would have beaten the Apollo. For all we know it would have beaten it by fair margin. IMO the jury is still out on Asgard and Ancient hyper drives.
    Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by Buba uognarf View Post
    Atlantis has to maintain shields in hyperspace something which is apparently impossible for Asgard ships even with 4 NIG's. Its possible that to limit the strain on the single ZPM they didn't push the hyper drive to its max. It was probably not working at its full potential not to mention that we know it would have beaten the Apollo. For all we know it would have beaten it by fair margin. IMO the jury is still out on Asgard and Ancient hyper drives.
    Well, actually, we still don't know, because the apollo's hyperdrives are still limited by its power generators. Asgard hyperdrives can cross galaxies in a very short time. But, Atlantis's hyperdrives are still pretty powerful. The Asuran ships weren't the same as the Ancient ones simply because the actual Ancient ships would have suffered no damage whatsoever from the Wraith or Travelers ships. The Orion, a damaged and underpowered aurora class was still able to take out a Wraith hive ship relatively easily. With adequate power. The Asurans had over 30 ships vs. only seven hives, several Travelers ships, and 2 Earth ships. Even if the Earth ships could do some damage to them, the Asuran ships should have wiped out the Wraith and traveler ships. Why? Because the ratio of aurora-to-hive is atleast 1:5, and drones are still effective, even if they magically couldn't go through Asgard or Traveler shields (a convenient plothole IMO). Conveniently, the Asurans did not launch swarms of drones, nor did they really engage in battle. So, BAMSR is not a good reference for ship-to-ship comparisons.
    Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...
    http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=12118
    ... or that any man can measure the tides and hurricanes he will
    encounter on the strange journey.


    Spoiler:

    2 Cor. 10:3-5
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  15. #35
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    , even if they magically couldn't go through Asgard or Traveler shields (a convenient plothole IMO).
    that only seems to work on weak shields. we have drone immune shields [no penetration] either due to advancement or modding the shields to be drone proof.[tao of rodney, or asgard made it, or we made it using drone research].

    travellers couldve gotten it from us.

  16. #36
    Lieutenant Colonel Ltcolshepjumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    that only seems to work on weak shields. we have drone immune shields [no penetration] either due to advancement or modding the shields to be drone proof.[tao of rodney, or asgard made it, or we made it using drone research].

    travellers couldve gotten it from us.
    That would definitely make drones a less advanced technology, which seems contrary to what they have been portrayed as. Anubis's shields were pretty asvanced, and even Ancient derived. It's very possible he could have gone head-to-head with an Asgard ship. I think the writers changed the original advantage of drone tech when they developed the Asurans, realizing that the SGA team would logically not be able to defend against such an advantage. Travelers did not get shield tech from us. their shields are completely different. It's possible they studied the Ancient warship's shields, but if that's the case, how did the traveler's warship's drones penetrate the shields of the Asuran warships? plothole.
    Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...
    http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=12118
    ... or that any man can measure the tides and hurricanes he will
    encounter on the strange journey.


    Spoiler:

    2 Cor. 10:3-5
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  17. #37
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    i mean the drone immunity thing.

    we have access to drones. we couldve figured it out. or the asgard decided it woulnt be funny if their shields would be just bypassed, and figured out a way. and gave it to us too. and we decided the travellers wouldnt be much use without that formula, and we gave it to them.

  18. #38
    First Lieutenant Nemises's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    just for the record.

    the asuran ships didnt fire drones they were firing beams. because drones are fired from only one location from the ship as seen when the arora piloted by sheppard fires in the same scene. plus the asuran tech are cheap replicates anyways.

    the ancient drones own all. FACT

  19. #39
    Brigadier General Buba uognarf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Drones are just as good as beam weapons against all the targets we've seen them both used against.

    A single drone from a puddle jumper crippled a cruiser.
    A small cluster of drones (6) fired from a puddle jumper hitting an undamaged section finished off a Hive ship.
    A few drones blew an Asuran Aurora to pieces.

    In all these cases the drones did as well as the Asgard beams IMO. We don't know how well Drones do against Ori shields and we don't know how well our shields could truly hold up against Drones or Asgard beams.

    Asgard beam weapons are good because they do loads of damage in a single shot. Drones are good for precision strikes and general targeting. I'd assume the Ancients didn't have a problem building drones to replenish their supplies.
    Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

  20. #40
    Major Betelgeuze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltcolshepjumper
    That would definitely make drones a less advanced technology, which seems contrary to what they have been portrayed as. Anubis's shields were pretty asvanced, and even Ancient derived. It's very possible he could have gone head-to-head with an Asgard ship. I think the writers changed the original advantage of drone tech when they developed the Asurans, realizing that the SGA team would logically not be able to defend against such an advantage. Travelers did not get shield tech from us. their shields are completely different. It's possible they studied the Ancient warship's shields, but if that's the case, how did the traveler's warship's drones penetrate the shields of the Asuran warships? plothole.
    Joe Mallozzi did say that the Asuran battle ships weren't as good as the Ancient ones. They are apparently very good imitations, but not as good as the original. This of course nicely solves the perceived plotholes. Which means we still don't know if Ancient drones can penetrate Asgard shields. I do think that the Asgard beam weapons can penetrate an Ancients Aurora class ship, because the Wraith could do it, and the Asgard beams are more powerful than the Wraith weapons.

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