"Guilty or Innocent?"

[Lord batchi ball]

These arguments can go on fore ever and ever, why b/c its all about morality, and everyone thinks they are doing the right thing. Atlantis seems to be following the GHP (Greatess happiness principle) where everything is based on trying to improve the overall happiness by any means nessary. Even if it means a few have to suffer a great deal.

This is all pretty basic morallity and it gives me a headache.

But long story short they are gulity, even micheal says they are.

[Finger13]

These arguments can go on fore ever and ever, why b/c its all about morality, and everyone thinks they are doing the right thing. Atlantis seems to be following the GHP (Greatess happiness principle) where everything is based on trying to improve the overall happiness by any means nessary. Even if it means a few have to suffer a great deal.

This is all pretty basic morallity and it gives me a headache.

But long story short they are gulity, even micheal says they are.

I don't think that Michael is the first person to be taking pointers from. In his eyes he was justified in killing hundreds of thousands of people just because Atlantis forced him to become something that he was not.

I'm sure every enemy feels that Atlantis is immoral.

[YutheGreat]

You think? It only balanced the number of Wraith vs. humans, meaning that less Wraith have more access to humans, so there's even less need for a civil war, each Wraith can eat according to his needs.

How does that make the Wraith weaker exactly?

So what do you suggest we stop interfering now because that would be great. You see the fact remains that We don't need to fight the Wraith because they can't attack Earth. We just send all 3 zpms to Atlantis and fly it back to earth. A lot of the politicians will be happy about that but it will prove what they believe is true of us. The Wraith will just stay awake longer desperately searching for the location and means to get to Earth and a to ensure that there are no threats to their domain.

Safe those who have never been able to do anything but run for the caves.
From their point of view, things haven't changed for good at all. It's only become worse.
The Wraith have considerably boosted their culling rate, a planet full of homicidal robots were reactivated and attacked several planets and killed millions more humans, forced the Wraith to become even more aggressive while they were not even directly attacked, and the Tau'ri fiddled with a doomsday device which, again, spread death across an entire galaxy within hours, pissed off the Wraith even more, and pulled mean and resolute Asgards out of their sleep.

Of Course things will escalate the Wraith are once again at war there is no question about that. They will fight

[Shpinxinator]

The expedition are not guilty of man-slaughter. They have no control over the actions of the others. They are guilty of inadvertently setting about chains of events that lead to the killing of millions, but they did not do it themselves. They also had no idea it would happen.

And, again, most importantly: It was done by others.

It not the same as someone setting off a detonator and walking away. It's more like training someone in martial arts and then leaving them to themselves. If they use that martial arts for evil, it's their crime, not yours (referencing the Asurans here).

With the Wraith, it was a case of getting attacked by enemies (WTF @ "scouting mission", scouting mission my tuchas! It was a culling!), defending yourself against said enemies and pissing them off. And the episode was a bit off on that (because the Council was obviously biased). John killed the Keeper (since when was she ever a Queen?), which lead to her waking everyone else up and informing them of the new feeding grounds... you really think she wouldn't have otherwise?

I mean, why would she randomly wake everyone up just for fun just because she got killed off? She did it to have the Wraith mobilize and attack Atlantis for the location of Earth.

With Michael, that's more gray. The expedition conducted experiments on a sentient being against their will. But it's ultimately Michael who is responsible for his actions afterward.

With the Asurans, the expedition reprogrammed them so that they could go after the Wraith... which they did. It's not the expedition's fault that the Asurans thought it best to go after the Wraiths' food supply.

The expedition is not psychic, everything they did was with the best of the intentions. Some of their actions are iffy, most others "noble". They can only be blamed for the end results if their actions directly result in the harming of innocents.

Tell me, are the masterminds of the atom bomb responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands?

I feel it's time I lay my option down....and...for once...I think FallenAngelII and I are in complete agreement...well said FAII

[ori soldier]

from season 9 onwards everything the sgc and sga teams has done has resulted in deaths of innocents GUILTY

[Shpinxinator]

from season 9 onwards everything the sgc and sga teams has done has resulted in deaths of innocents GUILTY

Season 9 on?

Collateral has always been part of the game...case in point...

SG-1

Season 1:
"The First Commandment"

Season 2:
"One False Step"

Season 3:
"Rules of Engagement"
"Past and Present" (no real death but SG-1's action lead to the collapse of a society)


As you can see collateral death and damage is nothing new

[Rachel500]

"Innocent."

"Feed him to the Sharkticons!"

Seriously though: Do you think that the Atlantis Expedition was truly innocent or guilty of the crimes against he Galaxy.

<snipped for space>

What do you vote?

I think the verdict would depend on the charges. In Inquisition itself, after a few repeats of watching (and I mean a few; it's not obvious), from what I can make out there are three charges:

(1) Intentionally waking the Wraith (leading to the early culling of populations that had not recovered and could not sustain it so were in effect dying out completely)

(2) Conspiring with an advanced race (of what the coalition assumed to be humans) to wipe out human populations with advanced weaponry

(3) Conspiring with the Wraith against the human populations

Additionally, the coalition asked about the plague and Michael's unique hybrid quality.

If you view the charges this way; my view:

(1) Innocent. There was no intent to wake the Wraith. The expedition had no knowledge that their actions in seeking sanctuary on Athosia and then rescuing their people from the Wraith, would lead to a massive army of Wraith waking up, nor at the time did they have any real idea about what that would mean to the human populations within the Pegasus Galaxy until the damage was done.

However, if the charge was simply 'waking the Wraith early' regardless of intent, the verdict would be guilty as there is no question that the expedition woke the Wraith early.

(2) Innocent. There is no conspiracy with the Replicators to attack human worlds.

However, the expedition certainly hold some responsibility for the destruction of the human populations given they initiated the attack code within the Replicators. They cannot be held completely blameless for the deaths that occurred. Pushing the button on the attack code was the same in many ways in pushing the button on a detonator - the human populations decimated were the collateral damage just like friendlies caught in the bomb explosion meant for the enemy. However, the expedition acted as soon as it became aware of what had happened, and minimised the damage by destroying the Replicators once and for all.

Certainly, the human populations affected could claim the Atlantis expedition should bear some responsibility and possibly be charged with involuntary something especially as the expedition acted alone and the collateral damage is not to allies or friends in a legally recognised war where the concept of 'friendly fire' may negate any formal charges being brought to the military personnel involved in causing said friendly fire.

Just as had the Atlantis guys stepped foot on a planet, intentionally set off a bomb which then destroyed one village accidentally, then they would certainly be accountable to the laws of that planet's society and could be brought up on relevant charges.

The Ancients may have invented the bomb (the Replicators) in this instance, but the expedition were the ones to determine it should be used and who pressed the button.

(3) Innocent. Atlantis have conspired with the Wraith from my memory in five instances to date.

(a) with one Hive to use the retrovirus against another Hive to provide some Wraith with another food supply

Ignoring the whole mess of whether once the Wraiths are human, simply handing them to other Wraith is ethically or legally sound, the intent of the conspiracy was to safeguard the human populations in Pegasus not to conspire against them.

(b) with Todd to enable an escape from Genii capture

Certainly Sheppard conspired with Todd against Kolya but as Kolya was rebelling against the legal government of an ally of Atlantis at the time, this could be argued that in conspiring to escape and enable the ally government to remain stable, this was not conspiracy against the human populations.

(c) with Todd to defeat the Replicators

In protection of human populations.

(d) with Todd to destroy the clone lab

In protection of human populations although Todd would have used the clone lab himself if he had been able to do so

(e) with Todd to try an experiment to enable the Wraith not to have humans as their food source

Again in protection of human populations.

---

If Atlantis had been charged with intentionally creating a human/Wraith hybrid leading to unintentional loss of human life - and on this I would have found them guilty. They bear enormous responsibility in creating Michael and certainly their subsequent treatment of him has led to his own insane desire to survive through continuing their own experiment, creating more hybrids and leading to loss of life.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I'd like to formally request a poll.

1 - Innocent

2 - Mostly Innocent

3 - Mostly Guilty

4 - Guilty

5 - Some other fifth conclusion (to be explained in these posts)

[Manbearpig]

Guilty for manslaughter but not murder. Besides they had a biased judge(the female one) and improper proceedings, totally unfair trial IMO.

[asdf1239]

guilty for the most part