Wraith...Amoral or Immoral?

[Shpinxinator]

Wraith are neither amoral nor immoral. They ARE moral; it just happens that their moral rules are not the same as yours. There is no such thing as an universal morality.

That is very arguable

[Viper_Sweden]

Morality, immorality and amorality all depend on the situation. The Wraith feed on humans out of necessity (as has been stated before), how can that be immoral?

[NorseGuy]

I think the upper rank Wraiths are just as different as humans. The Warriors don't seem to have any personality. But guys like Todd are different than each other. Their look, their attitude, their agenda etc. I don't thrust Todd which make him an exicting character but I don't consider him evil.

The Wraith culture shows they have much more aggression than most humans. But this might as well be a product of going to war with ancients and mainteaining their food source. Elia for instance was no evil at all. She was really just a kid. In the Elia eppisiode it was mentioned that feading on animals won't supply even a young Wraith with enough food. But some Wraith surely lack of moral but on the other hand it must be a big dilemma to have a food source which is almost as intelligent as yourselves. I'm not phycologist but I think killing in a rate like the Wraith will mess your personality pretty much up.

[Laura Dove]

That is very arguable

Universal morality is the argument of the Christians during the Crusades, the arguments of the Europeans destroying native civilisations in Africa and America, the argument of today's fanatic islamist terrorists who fight against "evil USA". Universal morality is an excuse for war and abuse on minorities: "They don't value the same things as us, therefore they are evil".

So yeah, somehow it's arguable that universal morality is a chimera, since so many fanatics disagree and have disagreed in the course of history. That doesn't mean I want to endorse imposing one's own morality on other people by force. According to MY morality, it's one of the most immoral things. Is morality universal, then?

[dasNdanger]

Morality, immorality and amorality all depend on the situation. The Wraith feed on humans out of necessity (as has been stated before), how can that be immoral?

This is very true.

And Laura brings out some good points, as well.

Even if you take the Bible (whether you believe in it or not) - morality changed depending on the situations. Incest was acceptable, since Abraham married his half-sister. But after the Israelites left Egypt and received the law code, incest was no longer tolerated. Morality changed. The Israelites could have multiple wives, but their descendants were told to have only one wife. Morality changed. The Israelites were allowed to avenge the death of a loved one, but their descendants were told not to return evil for evil. Morality changed. The Israelites were instructed to stone to death sinners, but their descendants were told to forgive instead. Morality changed. These changes affected just this one nation of people, and was based on a changes in circumstances - before they had law, incest was acceptable, while they were growing as a nation, polygamy was acceptable, and before their savior arrived and some accepted him, they were allowed to mete out their own justice.

So that's about the best example I can give as to how there can even be changes in the moral code of one group of people, based on circumstances.

So, as long as the Wraith can only feed on humans, and see no wrong in it (since it is a dietary necessity), they are acting morally. Even if offered the gene therapy, we have a problem here for some - it may seem IMMORAL to them to alter their biology in order to eat an inferior food. You just can't change their biology without addressing their mentality - their mindset. Right now, they are eating the best food possible - the gene therapy may be like forcing them to eat rice and beans after they've dined for millenniums on gourmet cuisine. They may find the gene therapy as offensive as what happened to Michael, a 'forced change' so that they are more 'acceptable' to others. To Wraith, this may be as offensive as forcing a human to change his skin color so that he may better fit into a certain demographic.

So, maybe we should be asking the more important question - are the Lanteans acting amorally, morally, or immorally, when it comes to their treatment of the Wraith? Afterall, it is the humans who are going against their morality by invading another galaxy and forcing change on another species, or race - I mean, if this was happening in the real world, civil liberty organizations, the UN and animal rights activists would be in an uproar!

Just something to think about...

das

[jenks]

They're neither. For a Wraith to feed on a Human isn't immoral in the slightest.

[A_PophisandhisFran]

The Wraith have their own set of morals that really isn't that different from the humans. To them, it isn't really amoral to eat humans, but it certainly isn't wrong because humans aren't wraith. I have a feeling murder would still be "wrong" for a wraith, but eating a human isn't considered murder or cannibalism or anything. Humans are just food.

I do believe in some universal morals that applies to pretty much any culture anywhere, like "murder is wrong". However, people's understanding of murder varies. I have a feeling the Wraith wouldn't want to "murder" an equal, but humans, they aren't equals and with them they are just eating.

[jenks]

Murder is defined as an unlawful killing, and the law can pretty much say anything, so it's hardly a universal moral, it's relative.

[TheoryCraft]

So, maybe we should be asking the more important question - are the Lanteans acting amorally, morally, or immorally, when it comes to their treatment of the Wraith?

The Lanteans are not just acting immorally when it comes to the Wraith, they are rather hypocritical about it. Take for example, say, experimentation on humans. How many times have they been outraged or disgusted by the fact this goes on? How many times have they tried to stop it?

And then what do they do? They go ahead and use Steve for testing the Hoffan drug, not to mention that entire thing with Michael (who has been cause of quite a few problems).

The Wraith feeding-frenzy: Their fault (although technically an accident).
Hoffan Drug: Tries to fix Wraith feeding frenzy they caused. Just so happens to have 50% mortality rate. Makes Wraith VERY angry. Also turns into deadly plague.
Wraith vs. Replicators: Was a pretty good idea until replicators decided to go and destroy human worlds.

Is it just me or do the Lanteans, by acting what they think is "morally" seem to be causing most of the Pegasus Galaxy's problems?

(Oh, and while I'm here. Greetings, GateWorld forums!)

[Tri_rule]

The Wraith are not immoral They Feed because they must, It's a basic instinct of all living creatures. If you say the Wraith ARE immoral for feeding on humans then that must also mean that Humans are immoral for eating Chicken, Beef, Lamb etc....


There's also kellers Therapy to Surpress the Wraiths need to feed on humans Why don't they take it? Well Ask yourself why you don't become a vegetarian and only eat foods that weren't once living...

[Shpinxinator]

Universal morality is the argument of the Christians during the Crusades, the arguments of the Europeans destroying native civilisations in Africa and America, the argument of today's fanatic islamist terrorists who fight against "evil USA". Universal morality is an excuse for war and abuse on minorities: "They don't value the same things as us, therefore they are evil".

So yeah, somehow it's arguable that universal morality is a chimera, since so many fanatics disagree and have disagreed in the course of history. That doesn't mean I want to endorse imposing one's own morality on other people by force. According to MY morality, it's one of the most immoral things. Is morality universal, then?

I see your point but the simple fact of he matter is, the Egyptians considered murder wrong long before Christianity, long before they even encountered the Jewish people as did he Greeks as did the ancient Chinese, same with theft and incest and cannibalism these things have been considered "wrong" since man has been able to think.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Spoiler:

It was mentioned in the season 1 episode "Poisoning the Well".
About midway through the episode Weir and Shepard are talking.
SHEPPARD: The point is, we don’t get a lot of opportunities like this. Do you know how obsessed with this the Hoffans are when they found out we had a live Wraith prisoner? He’s going to die. I tried to feed him all sorts of live stuff but apparently there’s only one item on his menu.

Now while this doesn't outright say it, it does strongly hint about the dietary requirements of the Wraith.

I understand what you're saying but I don't think that this rules out the Wraith being able to feed off of other life forms.
I did mention the Iratus bug in my original post, it wouldn't just have Humans to feed off off, I don't think there were any humans on it's home world, there were probably various life forms on there that it fed off of and if the Wraith have evolved from the Iratus bug and they've taken on such a unique method of feeding, then surely ten thousand or so years of feeding off of one source of food wouldn't stop them from gaining the life energy they need from other sources than Humans.

Perhaps that is why they must feed on humans, or at least a being that has human DNA.

I guess that's possible but the Wraith still evolved in part from the Iratus bug.

The hive ships may only need a power source to regenerate and stay alive. Look at humans, while we do require food, water and air to live, the food get converted into energy that keeps up alive. The human brain run on electricity, so why can't the Wraith hive ships just need power to keep going? I know it is over simplifying it. That is pretty much how it works.

Sorry I didn't explain this as well as I could have as I was pretty tired when I wrote it
I understand how the Wraith's ships work

Spoiler:

from seeing The Seed

What I meant to say is if the Wraith's ships are alive, could some kind feeding device for the Wraith personnel be built into the design of their ships.
If you are right in saying that the Wraith need some form of Human DNA in their food source and they are able to grow genetic material that forms the various parts of their ships then could it not be possible to make a device that itself uses a portion of the Hives, Cruisers or even Darts power and converts the energy into a form that it is palatable to the Wraith?

Perhaps the Wraith don't consider humans sentient. We don't consider livestock on earth sentient. Why can't the Wraith look at us as not being sentient. At least by their standards.

Again I guess this could be true, but there is a big difference from an animal that can't do complex math, make hyperdrive engines, power sources, or build weapons that can take out their ships to one that can and the Humans of Pegasus are at least capable of learning how to do those things.
The way that Todd interacts with the Atlantis expedition at least shows that some Wraith are capable of seeing us as being at a sentient level and while we are not at as intelligent as the Ancients, we can talk, think and problem solve.

[Laura Dove]

I see your point but the simple fact of he matter is, the Egyptians considered murder wrong long before Christianity, long before they even encountered the Jewish people as did he Greeks as did the ancient Chinese, same with theft and incest and cannibalism these things have been considered "wrong" since man has been able to think.

Wraith consider murder wrong too. It's merely the definition of what is a murder, and what is not, that changes. Is killing a slave a murder? The answer used to be "no" at the time when there were slaves. Is killing an ape who displays more intellectual abilities than some humans a murder? Today's answer is "no". Is killing a peaceful replicator a murder in Stargate universe? The answer is "no".

For wraith, killing a human is not murder, because humans are not people. They are simply a means to survive.

[Giantevilhead]

Even if we take the position that feeding on humans is amoral, the way Wraiths treat each other would be considered immoral, or at least extremely douchey.

[Laura Dove]

I understand what you're saying but I don't think that this rules out the Wraith being able to feed off of other life forms.
I did mention the Iratus bug in my original post, it wouldn't just have Humans to feed off off, I don't think there were any humans on it's home world, there were probably various life forms on there that it fed off of and if the Wraith have evolved from the Iratus bug and they've taken on such a unique method of feeding, then surely ten thousand or so years of feeding off of one source of food wouldn't stop them from gaining the life energy they need from other sources than Humans.

Don't blame the wraith for Stargate's bad science. It has been clearly confirmed, including in one of Joseph Mallozzi's blog entries, that an adult wraith canNOT survive off anything other than human/ancient/wraith lifeforce.

Again I guess this could be true, but there is a big difference from an animal that can't do complex math, make hyperdrive engines, power sources, or build weapons that can take out their ships to one that can and the Humans of Pegasus are at least capable of learning how to do those things.

The only difference is that it makes humans dangerous (hence, the need for wraith to destroy any human society that develops technology). It doesn't grant humans any divine right to live.

The way that Todd interacts with the Atlantis expedition at least shows that some Wraith are capable of seeing us as being at a sentient level and while we are not at as intelligent as the Ancients, we can talk, think and problem solve.

Some do because of exceptional circumstances; most don't.