Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[SciFi_Chick2012]

Personally, I'm quite fascinated by this rather dysfunctional pairing and I'd love to get a discussion going about it (if there isn't one already, in which case, oops) So if there are any other interested fans out there, come, have some tea, discuss! Let's hear some thoughts on this pairing that seems to be quite the opposite of the one(s) AT is involved in on Stargate...

[dasNdanger]

I wouldn't mind having a discussion on this. I have only seen the premiere, and not familiar with what happens down the road with them (if anything), so I will only comment on the past - on her meeting John, who later becomes JtR.

What I saw in Helen is a very compassionate, caring person - someone prone to be drawn (empathetically/sympathetically) to those she treats. She was young, this was her first patient, and she made the big mistake of 'getting involved'. Her heart overrode her brain, as it were.

Now - why John? Well, as portrayed by Chris (who does such a nice job in making me feel sympathetic towards Todd, even under all those layers of make-up), John has a 'vulnerability' to him. Chris - through his facial expressions and the tone of his voice - manages to make the characters he plays, even Druitt, somewhat sympathetic characters. He has a charm about him, and therefore was the perfect actor for this role. He can be menacing AND charming - not many actors can be both. So, first of all, they chose the right actor. Second, Chris handled the character very well...very cold, and yet...NOT distant. I don't know any other way to put it. For as cold as Druitt was, I soon felt like I knew him, knew what he was feeling. This was all due to what I said before - expression and tone of voice - he made Druitt 'real'.

So, that's about the actor, and how he made Druitt a sympathetic character, despite his brutality and coldness. Now, jumping into the fictional world, why would Helen be attracted to this man?

Well, as I said before, she fell for a patient, a trap often experienced in these situations, especially for a young doctor not yet aware of the risks. Second, Druitt was charming. He was also intelligent (a nice compliment for an intelligent woman), and 'needy'...he needed her blood to live. In effect she 'fed' him, a very motherly thing to do, and something that often draws people together. There is a dependency, one which - in the beginning - may have been very appealing to Helen, drawing her closer to John. That is, until things started to go wrong.

At least, that's how I see it, based on just one viewing and knowing nothing of the show otherwise. I may be totally wrong on this, but so far that's what I think.


das

[ann_sgcfan]

I think Helen and John are an interesting pairing. There is both this intense anger, fear and at one time love. They were engaged. He was her first patient. spoilers for the 2 hour pilot.

Spoiler:

She said he was near death and in an effort to "prolong his life" she gave him some of her blood and "it all went wrong". According to Helen she "spent all the intervening years trying to undo that mistake." I think part of her wished or hoped she could safe him. He is not only the patient she lost, but the love her life she couldn't save.

Does she still care about him? Yeah I think part of her does. She cares for the man he used to be, the one she was engaged to 130 +/- years ago. It's possible they haven't seen each other since 1888 when she shot him in the alleyway. She had the embryo frozen for a 100 years and only brought Ashley to terms when she thought John was dead. She even said "forgive me John, after tainting her blood knowing it would cause him problems.

. So it will be interesting now that he is back in Helen's life.

[SciFi_Chick2012]

So it will be interesting now that he is back in Helen's life.

Mmm...indeed it will. I agree that there's such a mix of emotions between these two, love, anger, fear, I think on both their parts. And me being the hopeless romantic and fangirly shipper that I am think that there still is real love beneath all of the darker emotions, and perhaps entwined with them. I'm really excited to see how their relationship plays out through the series. I feel like helen has this determination to try and fix him, but he seems to be more focused on keeping going and going.

I am so curious as to see the extent to which their feelings for each other will go. I remember the scene from the webseries where he actually held a knife to her throat, but I wonder if he would really be able to kill her. (Ok, aside from the fact that he kinda needs her alive. I mean on an emotional level). Some part of me wants to say he couldn't.

One thing that I thought was very interesting in the pilot was ....

Spoiler:

...Druitt's reaction when Helen told him that Ashley thought her father was dead. His immediate reaction seemed to be one of betrayal more than anything else, almost like he was angry that they'd had the opportunity to have a family but Helen refused to let it happen. (or maybe i'm just reading too much into that )

[Krissie678]

One thing that I thought was very interesting in the pilot was ....

Spoiler:

...Druitt's reaction when Helen told him that Ashley thought her father was dead. His immediate reaction seemed to be one of betrayal more than anything else, almost like he was angry that they'd had the opportunity to have a family but Helen refused to let it happen. (or maybe i'm just reading too much into that )

I thought that was interesting too.

[helenmagnus23]

Originally Posted by SciFi_Chick2012
One thing that I thought was very interesting in the pilot was ....

Spoiler:

...Druitt's reaction when Helen told him that Ashley thought her father was dead. His immediate reaction seemed to be one of betrayal more than anything else, almost like he was angry that they'd had the opportunity to have a family but Helen refused to let it happen. (or maybe i'm just reading too much into that )

It will be interesting to see what happens between them throughout the season

Spoiler:

and if she can actually save himfrom himself .

[majorsal]

i find their relationship *so* interesting for mainly two reasons, 1-because jack-the-ripper is an interesting character and this is a new twist on him, and 2- amanda and chris are awesome actors and i can't help wanting to see them interact together.

[SciFi_Chick2012]

i find their relationship *so* interesting for mainly two reasons, 1-because jack-the-ripper is an interesting character and this is a new twist on him, and 2- amanda and chris are awesome actors and i can't help wanting to see them interact together.

Indeed! I was re-watching some of the old webisodes the other night and there were a couple scenes in particular between those two that were just amazing emotion wise. Amanda and Chris are incredible...they capture the depth of their character's relationship, the sadness, the depravity...everything.

[atfan]

Indeed! I was re-watching some of the old webisodes the other night and there were a couple scenes in particular between those two that were just amazing emotion wise. Amanda and Chris are incredible...they capture the depth of their character's relationship, the sadness, the depravity...everything.

I agree their on-screen chemistry is amazing. Helen still obviously cares about him despite her hating what he has become. She sees the good in all people and creatures even the dangerous and evil ones. Webisode four was my favorite, the emotional scene in the warehouse with Ashley, Druitt, Helen was simply amazing some of the best acting and story-line in any series. The new blood twist in the TV series makes the relationship even more complicated.

Helen saved him, did her blood make him turn bad or did his powers as was suggested in the webisodes? When did Helen find out out John's murdering ways? Did she have a chance of killing him but failed to do so earlier? Interesting to see if any of the questions will be answered in the series and when. I wish we would have gotten a brand new episode this week instead of the Morrigan but I am looking forward to next week's episode.

[SciFi_Chick2012]

I agree their on-screen chemistry is amazing. Helen still obviously cares about him despite her hating what he has become. She sees the good in all people and creatures even the dangerous and evil ones. Webisode four was my favorite, the emotional scene in the warehouse with Ashley, Druitt, Helen was simply amazing some of the best acting and story-line in any series. The new blood twist in the TV series makes the relationship even more complicated.

Helen saved him, did her blood make him turn bad or did his powers as was suggested in the webisodes? When did Helen find out out John's murdering ways? Did she have a chance of killing him but failed to do so earlier? Interesting to see if any of the questions will be answered in the series and when. I wish we would have gotten a brand new episode this week instead of the Morrigan but I am looking forward to next week's episode.

I agree, that scene in the warehouse was stunning. I hope they work that in somehow. It shows them so perfectly. Druitt keeps his creepy/dangerous demeanor, but also opens up when he talks about wanting his family. I love that random little bit where he's standing behind Helen and smelling her hair It shadows his old feelings for her, but also incorporates almost a creepy, possessive side to it.

In the scene of them in the pilot, one of the lines that stuck with me was him saying how he wanted a fraction of the peace they once had, or whatever the exact line was. The way he said it and the very fact that he said it lent a glimpse into just how lonely he is. One of the many reasons I think that he does still love Helen, though perhaps his mind is so far gone that he doesn't know how to deal with those type of feelings anymore.

[dasNdanger]

I agree their on-screen chemistry is amazing. Helen still obviously cares about him despite her hating what he has become. She sees the good in all people and creatures even the dangerous and evil ones. Webisode four was my favorite, the emotional scene in the warehouse with Ashley, Druitt, Helen was simply amazing some of the best acting and story-line in any series. The new blood twist in the TV series makes the relationship even more complicated.

Helen saved him, did her blood make him turn bad or did his powers as was suggested in the webisodes? When did Helen find out out John's murdering ways? Did she have a chance of killing him but failed to do so earlier? Interesting to see if any of the questions will be answered in the series and when. I wish we would have gotten a brand new episode this week instead of the Morrigan but I am looking forward to next week's episode.

Having never seen the webisodes, I didn't know that the blood thing wasn't original. Ahh, very interesting. It makes those familiar with the webisodes wonder what lies ahead, I suppose, since outcomes may not be the same on tv as they were on the web.

I was under the impression that her blood - perhaps - triggered his powers, which - in turn - slowly began to deteriorate his brain. I might be wrong...I really know so little about the show and the characters, still much to learn.

I agree, that scene in the warehouse was stunning. I hope they work that in somehow. It shows them so perfectly. Druitt keeps his creepy/dangerous demeanor, but also opens up when he talks about wanting his family. I love that random little bit where he's standing behind Helen and smelling her hair It shadows his old feelings for her, but also incorporates almost a creepy, possessive side to it.

In the scene of them in the pilot, one of the lines that stuck with me was him saying how he wanted a fraction of the peace they once had, or whatever the exact line was. The way he said it and the very fact that he said it lent a glimpse into just how lonely he is. One of the many reasons I think that he does still love Helen, though perhaps his mind is so far gone that he doesn't know how to deal with those type of feelings anymore.

Wow - from the way you guys talk, the warehouse scene is awesome - I really hope they keep it in.

Ya know, I only know Chris as Halling and Todd. I have seen him in Smallville and Blade Trinity, but since I'm not into Smallville (that's hubby's show), and his scene in Blade Trinity was brief, I really couldn't appreciate his abilities as an actor outside of some of the great things he's done with Todd. Still, for me, Todd's appeal went beyond the actor - it's his style of dress, his hair, his lovely pallid skin. So I was prepared to be unimpressed with John Druitt.

How wrong I was! Seeing Sanctuary for the first time two weeks ago, and 'meeting' John, has totally blown me away! Chris was fantastic. Just a total surprise for me. I'm not much into actors, mostly I'm just a fan of characters, without much interest in the guy under the makeup...I want to like the character, not gush over the actor. So, no matter who the actor is, if he can't make me connect to the character he portrays, well...then the character is of no interest to me. This is a problem I have with Christian Bale...for some reason, and for as handsome as he is, I just can't find any connection to his characters. He just doesn't make me feel for them.

But Chris instantly made me feel for John Druitt.

"You have no idea what it's been like. Alone, wandering this godforsaken world, wanting only peace. A fragment of what we had; what I lost."

*dies* The quiver in his voice, the pain in his expression...Druitt went from cold-hearted to 'pained' in an instant, and that's enough for me - when I see the character's pain, his inner struggles - I'm sold. Like Todd, John suddenly became the most beautiful thing on the screen...I just loved watching him, and almost hated caring for him because, afterall...he IS the bad guy, and that can't bode well for him at all. I have gone back and rewatched his scenes with Helen and Ashley from the premiere several times now, and I'm just mesmerized by John. I canNOT wait to see what comes next!


das

[JanSam]

Wow - from the way you guys talk, the warehouse scene is awesome - I really hope they keep it in.

das

I don't think they will be able to use the scene as the story is so different. Webisode 4 was my favorite and that's because of this scene. It was so intense and all the actors brought their "A" game for it. If you want to see it, Webisode 4 is still on youtube and the warehouse scene is at the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQpa8lCv55s

Chris is an awesome actor and I think he brings out the best in others working with him. Like you, I didn't appreciate his talent until I saw him in the Sanctuary webisodes.

[dasNdanger]

I don't think they will be able to use the scene as the story is so different. Webisode 4 was my favorite and that's because of this scene. It was so intense and all the actors brought their "A" game for it. If you want to see it, Webisode 4 is still on youtube and the warehouse scene is at the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQpa8lCv55s

Chris is an awesome actor and I think he brings out the best in others working with him. Like you, I didn't appreciate his talent until I saw him in the Sanctuary webisodes.

Oh. WOW. I swear, I'm falling more in love with Chris with each Druitt scene I see! And yeah - they basically did this scene in the premiere - reworked for that episode. Too many similiar elements to the warehouse scene. But...oh...my. Those two moments - when he smells Helen's hair, then kisses Ashley's head...chilling, and yet...very somethingicantsayoutloudinmixedcompany.

Thanks so much for sharing that with me.

das

[suse]

Oh. WOW. I swear, I'm falling more in love with Chris with each Druitt scene I see! And yeah - they basically did this scene in the premiere - reworked for that episode. Too many similiar elements to the warehouse scene. But...oh...my. Those two moments - when he smells Helen's hair, then kisses Ashley's head...chilling, and yet...very somethingicantsayoutloudinmixedcompany.

Thanks so much for sharing that with me.

das

I loved that bit. He's an amazing actor, very well paired.

I really think Helen still carries a torch for him, but struggles to be pragmatic. What an impossible situation.

suse

[SciFi_Chick2012]

I loved that bit. He's an amazing actor, very well paired.

I really think Helen still carries a torch for him, but struggles to be pragmatic. What an impossible situation.

suse

Exactly...it's going to be so so interesting to see what happens when he shows up again...I can't wait! (and I really want to know what Helen did to him exactly at the end of the pilot...)

[helenmagnus23]

Originally Posted by suse
I loved that bit. He's an amazing actor, very well paired.

I really think Helen still carries a torch for him, but struggles to be pragmatic. What an impossible situation.

suse

Originally posted by SciFi_Chick2012
Exactly...it's going to be so so interesting to see what happens when he shows up again...I can't wait! (and I really want to know what Helen did to him exactly at the end of the pilot...)

It will be very interesting to see her reaction and also given she still loves him a lot could they possibly get back together if he can be helped ?

[SciFi_Chick2012]

It will be very interesting to see her reaction and also given she still loves him a lot could they possibly get back together if he can be helped ?

I think they could...but it would never be a normal relationship, considering everything that's happened. But I could see them eventually working things out to the extent that they'd be together in some sense

[dasNdanger]

I loved that bit. He's an amazing actor, very well paired.

I really think Helen still carries a torch for him, but struggles to be pragmatic. What an impossible situation.

suse

Yes, I'm trying to figure that out. I can't tell if she still loves him, or feels...sorry for him. Very hard to tell.

But god...that Chris somehow makes insane sexy! (In comparing his performance with Ledger's Joker, I must say that Chris' had more dimension...and the fact that one minute he's 'normal', and the next so chilling...well, it made hairs stand up on the back of my neck, and the Joker did NOT do that.

das

Exactly...it's going to be so so interesting to see what happens when he shows up again...I can't wait! (and I really want to know what Helen did to him exactly at the end of the pilot...)

Yes! I haven't been this excited about a show since I got addicted to SGA in just January of this year. Ugh. Maybe I'm the Killer of TV Shows...guess that means Sanctuary won't last a season...


das

[SciFi_Chick2012]

Yes, I'm trying to figure that out. I can't tell if she still loves him, or feels...sorry for him. Very hard to tell.

But god...that Chris somehow makes insane sexy! (In comparing his performance with Ledger's Joker, I must say that Chris' had more dimension...and the fact that one minute he's 'normal', and the next so chilling...well, it made hairs stand up on the back of my neck, and the Joker did NOT do that.

das

Yes! I haven't been this excited about a show since I got addicted to SGA in just January of this year. Ugh. Maybe I'm the Killer of TV Shows...guess that means Sanctuary won't last a season...


das

Nooo don't say that!!! *covers ears* In all seriousness, I'm glad for Sanctuary because at least it's easing the passing of SGA...And it means more Amanda and Chris which is just amazing of course

Going back to your first point...yes, Chris does totally make crazy sexy. I keep returning to the part where Helen says Ashley thinks her father is dead...the shift of emotions across his face is just incredible. For a moment he looks shocked, then hurt and sad, and then all of the sudden he's raging mad with the whole "friend to nature's abominations and enemy of common sense" line.

And while this seems odd, I really hope they somehow keep the scene from webisode 4 where he's smelling her hair. I just think it's such a perfect thing for him to do, because it's got the whole him being creepy and still wanting her enclosed in one simple, odd gesture.

[dasNdanger]

Nooo don't say that!!! *covers ears* In all seriousness, I'm glad for Sanctuary because at least it's easing the passing of SGA...And it means more Amanda and Chris which is just amazing of course

Going back to your first point...yes, Chris does totally make crazy sexy. I keep returning to the part where Helen says Ashley thinks her father is dead...the shift of emotions across his face is just incredible. For a moment he looks shocked, then hurt and sad, and then all of the sudden he's raging mad with the whole "friend to nature's abominations and enemy of common sense" line.

And while this seems odd, I really hope they somehow keep the scene from webisode 4 where he's smelling her hair. I just think it's such a perfect thing for him to do, because it's got the whole him being creepy and still wanting her enclosed in one simple, odd gesture.

The hair-smelling was...wow. Like you said - creepy, and yet...very sexual, and not in a turn-off kinda way. If I wrap my head around it...he's been traveling through time, so terribly alone, searching for her. But when he does find her, he's really too far gone to have what he really longs for...so he just takes a moment to inhale her essence. You know how they say that aromas bring back old memories, sometimes instantly, like a flashback. I can imagine that this is what happens here. Just the way he falls silent, her scent bringing back a flood of memories from the past, and then - when Helen says, "How could I tell her the truth?", he snaps back - his eyes closed, his face still buried in her hair - "How could you NOT?!"

Yeah, I'm totally convinced he's remembering their time together there...

das