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  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant TheHomegaMan's Avatar
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    May 2004
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    455

    Default History seems to repeat itself...

    Well folks, we're here again. Once again MGM has announced a new entry into the Stargate franchise, and once again fandom is in an uproar. We have people who apparently have enough information to condemn the show. We have people who have the clairvoyance to see just how it'll work out. We even have people who think that axing this new entry will somehow bring the old one back, or at least give them some smug sense of satisfaction. Heck, we're also watching people recycle the same old complaints about the previous new show and applying them to this one. Yes, my friends, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember the complaints before SGA launched? Remember the whole "I don't want Voyager again!" cry? If you don't, just watch the anti-SGU folks. If it didn't work for SGA, maybe it'll work here. You have to give them points for persistence. If you did that, though, you'd probably also have to give them to the guy who thinks that if he beats his head hard enough on a brick wall he'll eventually break through. People are once again attached, and in the absence of any real information they're doing their best to make sure that you possess the same warped view of the unaired, unwritten, and unproduced show that they do. Yes, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember watching these very boards while people brought out the boycott calls? Many of us do. We remember when fans thought that their voice was the only one that mattered. They acted as if they were the sole purveyors of what was good for the franchise. A team cut off from Earth, but with space vampires?! BOYCOTT! How many of them ended up watching SGA? I'm not packing numbers, but I'm willing to bet enough people gave in. They may or may not be the ones e-picketing and demanding that this show not go forward, or at least hope it tanks, but a new generation has taken that up. Once again, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember growing attached to the previous entry in the franchise, only to feel that the new kid on the block took all the focus? You felt that your beloved show would suffer or be canceled to make room for the shiny new toy. The doomsayers were convinced that SG-1 took a hit in early S8, and here they are blaming the new show for the demise of SGA. Do I even need to say it? History repeats itself.

    This isn't anything new for people who've been around GW and the Stargate franchise for a while. It always happens. Somehow, against all the odds, life goes on. If/when they decide to add another show sometime down the line, we'll have legions of fans protesting once again. SGU will be the new baby for fandom, and it has to be protected from the evil parents (TBTP) and their desire to crank out a new child to focus on.

    So what am I getting at? Get used to this now, folks, because it keeps on happening. Your reactions are not new, revolutionary, or terribly effective. To borrow a phrase from the show that truly sets the bar for contemporary science fiction storytelling, "All this has happened before, and will happen again."

  2. #2
    Chief Master Sergeant General Yogi Bear's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Yes the complaining about a show that hasn't even aired yet is getting a little old. But I can understand the anger. Atlantis had at least 2 more good seasons in it, maybe more. At the end of the day its all about making money so I can only assume that they would not have made a profit (MGM/SCI-FI) going for another season.

  3. #3
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    if stargate remains a success, then expect many more movies, spinoffs, and spinoffs getting killed at season 5/6.

    what has happened will happen again. i agree.

    History seems to repeat itself...
    incorrect

    History repeats itself...
    correct.

    i like SGU, but im terrified that it will go wrong. it can do infinite good things, and infinite bad things. and i hope they choose the first

  4. #4
    Captain spinny magee's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Indeed i thought SGA was bad but it was good but honestly the only thing i don't like the sound of in SGU is Chloe Carpenter the US senator daughter/party girl. The rest seems fine well not really....
    Tst

  5. #5
    First Lieutenant JackHarkness_Hot's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
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    892

    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    True that history will repeat itself but this happened to Star Trek as well.

    Voyager's quality tanked majorly when B&B stated they are going to start a new spin-off, Enterprise. After 4 seasons the last incarnation of ST was cancelled, and trust me it was not a pretty sight, die-hard fans wanted to buy a new season and it was just horrendous imo.

    At least Atlantis will get 100 episodes, it'll be bittersweet but the series will continue as direct-to-DVD films. SGU will start in 2009, and I hope for the sake of the franchise that they will continue to be prosperous and have lots of seasons with brilliant outstanding episodes which are well thought out and intelligent. I also hope the TPTB and writers have learnt a lot from their mistakes that they have made on Atlantis and improve on them.

    Am I being a bit too optimistic?
    Last edited by JackHarkness_Hot; October 3rd, 2008 at 05:39 AM.

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Rise Of The Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    In my opinion TPTB have put out good shows this far, of course I would've liked to see more seasons of both SG1 and SGA, I meen in my opinion SG1 could've done with an eleventh season to finish off the Ori story and SGA could've done with another one or two seasons to rap up the current stories in detail, but I look forward to to the coming Movies and don't see them making mistakes with Universe as it's their new golden child.
    I will be watching as soon as I can get my hands on the pilot.

    I am however getting quite annoyed with the implication that Universe will be Stargate: 90210 or the view that SGA was cancelled to make SGU when there's been no real proof of this.
    At best there's circumstantial evidence and this wouldn't be enough to convict TPTB especially when paired with the Knowledge that they've put out 2 good shows so far and have no good reason to screw up on the third.

  7. #7
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise Of The Phoenix View Post
    In my opinion TPTB have put out good shows this far, of course I would've liked to see more seasons of both SG1 and SGA, I meen in my opinion SG1 could've done with an eleventh season to finish off the Ori story and SGA could've done with another one or two seasons to rap up the current stories in detail, but I look forward to to the coming Movies and don't see them making mistakes with Universe as it's their new golden child.
    I will be watching as soon as I can get my hands on the pilot.

    I am however getting quite annoyed with the implication that Universe will be Stargate: 90210 or the view that SGA was cancelled to make SGU when there's been no real proof of this.At best there's circumstantial evidence and this wouldn't be enough to convict TPTB especially when paired with the Knowledge that they've put out 2 good shows so far and have no good reason to screw up on the third.

    Well said! whenever i tried to say that i got blasted for being arogant and not a true fan because i didn't want Universe to die lol

    I can not wait for the new show to start, but i CAN wait for Atlantis to finish, this season has rocked so far, bar the seed, and sheppard *oh how i hate him* I'm really disappointed that it has to finish, but I in no way blame Universe for it's cancellation, it's just one of those things, as they say
    'when one door closes, another one opens' lol

  8. #8
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    163

    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Lol... I'm a big fan of change. When "Star Trek" went towards the whole 'Voyager', 'Enterprise', and 'Deep Space Nine' idea, I followed through the process as a faithful fan. I learned something about my own preferences. Even though I love the "Star Trek" and "Stargate" franchises, there are just somethings I right out hate. Does this mean that I'm not a fan? Hell no. I just have a taste for certain story styles. Does it mean that people will hate "Stargate: Universe"? Hell no. I'm sure it will catter to a specific group of individuals. Will "Stargate: Universe" be a success? Who knows. All we can do is speculate about how this series will turn out by reading the articles. From my personal perspective, I think "Stargate: Universe" is going to be "90210" meets "Star Trek: Voyager". That is just how I see it. Will I watch a few episodes? Hell yes. However, I know from my own personal experiences that I don't like heavy character development. I down right hate taking a pause in a story, so someone can shift through emotions and other drama. If you look at the ratings of early canceled shows, similar to the new direction, there is historical evidence that the writter's new formula will not work. Majority of the people watching "Stargate" and "Star Trek" will casually turn in to watch. History will serve as an example. At the very beginning, the ratings will be nice and high. Over a period of time, maybe halfway through the first season, the ratings will start to dive down to 2.0-1.0.

    Current day example "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles". After the first season, the writters changed over to heavy character development. At this very moment of season two, the series is now in danger of cancellation. Upon watching the first few episodes, I and a mess of other viewers just walked away. People want more science-fiction than drama. History preveals again. See for yourself. Season one had a massive 11.0 in rattings. Season two is dropping, and FOX is moving for a cancelation. It is already in talks.

    "Stargate: Altantis" mirrored "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"
    "Stargate: Universe" will mirror "Star Trek: Voyager" and "90210".
    Last edited by Col. Tomorian; October 3rd, 2008 at 02:56 PM.

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant talyn2k1's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    Currently between galaxies.
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    880

    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Whenever I read all the predictions about SGU being Stargate:Voyager I just think to myself, could anything really be that bad?

    I was a casual viewer of NextGen, loved DS9 when it came out, liked Voyager up until they jumped the shark, and was just starting to enjoy Enterprise when they cancelled it.

    I've been a big fan of Stargate right from SG-1 S1 through to SGA S5 and I've been on these boards for a while, lurking for quite a bit before I started participating, and I remember all the accusations of Atlantis being Stargate:Voyager, which the majority of fans will agree turned out to be a fuss over nothing, just because 2 shows share a premise, doesn't mean that because one sucked that both will.

    SGA has had much more shaky moments than SG-1, but it was still head and shoulders above most Sci-Fi shows. The rumours that they are going for a more BSG-eque drama angle on the show only fills me with hope, as BSG is probably the only show I love more than Stargate.

    I suppose there is very little point to all that drivel. I just want to say to anyone worrying about the show, focus on the positives not the negatives and don't write off the show before it starts.

    SGA is dead as a series, boycotting SGU won't bring it back, it won't make Sci-Fi make another spin-off exactly to your specifications, and it won't achieve a damn thing other than weaken the franchise that has given us literally hundreds of hours of quality TV.

    Conjecture is fun, but lets be honest, 99% of those calling for the boycott or saying they think SGU will be $h*t will be tuning in to the premier just the same as the rest of us.

    Hallowed is the Stargate!

  10. #10
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Jul 2008
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    163

    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    I think the fan-structure of "Stargate" is divided into two groups. One group likes the whole "Battlestar Gallactica" idea, and the other likes the whole "Stargate: SG-1" idea. Like all other science-fiction shows, there is a divide between the drama loving community and the science-ficiton loving community. There is nothing wrong with that. When it comes to a boycott, I think that is a ridiculous idea. Producers and writters can do anything they want. Only time will tell if it will stay around or not. Life is life. One minute you are on top of the world, and the next minute your down in hell. Move on. If someone doesn't like the show, he or she just doesn't have to watch. If you boycott "Stargate" anything, you put into risk of not seeing another series. I would just not watch.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel Rise Of The Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by xandder View Post
    Well said! whenever i tried to say that i got blasted for being arogant and not a true fan because i didn't want Universe to die lol

    I can not wait for the new show to start, but i CAN wait for Atlantis to finish, this season has rocked so far, bar the seed, and sheppard *oh how i hate him* I'm really disappointed that it has to finish, but I in no way blame Universe for it's cancellation, it's just one of those things, as they say
    'when one door closes, another one opens' lol
    Many thanks xandder, it's good to know that I'm not the only one willing to give Universe a go.
    I know I'm still very new to GW, but if people blast me for sharing my opinion, then I'd just blast them right back coz that's what I think.
    To me people who aren't willing to give the new show a try are just feeling bitter about the SGA cancellation, I wouldn't say they aren't true fans as you can only like what appeals to you and I just don't really see how they can decide it doesn't do that when they haven't seen it.

  12. #12
    First Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Jul 2006
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    850

    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomegaMan View Post
    Well folks, we're here again. Once again MGM has announced a new entry into the Stargate franchise, and once again fandom is in an uproar. We have people who apparently have enough information to condemn the show. We have people who have the clairvoyance to see just how it'll work out. We even have people who think that axing this new entry will somehow bring the old one back, or at least give them some smug sense of satisfaction. Heck, we're also watching people recycle the same old complaints about the previous new show and applying them to this one. Yes, my friends, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember the complaints before SGA launched? Remember the whole "I don't want Voyager again!" cry? If you don't, just watch the anti-SGU folks. If it didn't work for SGA, maybe it'll work here. You have to give them points for persistence. If you did that, though, you'd probably also have to give them to the guy who thinks that if he beats his head hard enough on a brick wall he'll eventually break through. People are once again attached, and in the absence of any real information they're doing their best to make sure that you possess the same warped view of the unaired, unwritten, and unproduced show that they do. Yes, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember watching these very boards while people brought out the boycott calls? Many of us do. We remember when fans thought that their voice was the only one that mattered. They acted as if they were the sole purveyors of what was good for the franchise. A team cut off from Earth, but with space vampires?! BOYCOTT! How many of them ended up watching SGA? I'm not packing numbers, but I'm willing to bet enough people gave in. They may or may not be the ones e-picketing and demanding that this show not go forward, or at least hope it tanks, but a new generation has taken that up. Once again, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember growing attached to the previous entry in the franchise, only to feel that the new kid on the block took all the focus? You felt that your beloved show would suffer or be canceled to make room for the shiny new toy. The doomsayers were convinced that SG-1 took a hit in early S8, and here they are blaming the new show for the demise of SGA. Do I even need to say it? History repeats itself.

    This isn't anything new for people who've been around GW and the Stargate franchise for a while. It always happens. Somehow, against all the odds, life goes on. If/when they decide to add another show sometime down the line, we'll have legions of fans protesting once again. SGU will be the new baby for fandom, and it has to be protected from the evil parents (TBTP) and their desire to crank out a new child to focus on.

    So what am I getting at? Get used to this now, folks, because it keeps on happening. Your reactions are not new, revolutionary, or terribly effective. To borrow a phrase from the show that truly sets the bar for contemporary science fiction storytelling, "All this has happened before, and will happen again."
    Good points. But isn’t that what fandom is all about – people who care passionately about a show?

    And when you care passionately about something you tend to react strongly either positively or negatively, you pick apart episodes, spoilers and comments etc… When you are a fan your expectations are high. When you are a fan you feel a sense of ownership.

    Though I participate in fan campaigns I think they rarely make a difference. I don’t think boycotts are ever successful or productive. In the end it is ratings and money that matter, not the voices of fans.

    In the end, SGU will live or die on its own merits

    Some people will watch SGU because it simply because it is SG and they believe anything SG is good

    Some people will try it out and watch and then decide.

    Some people will not watch it because they are angry about SGA

    Some people will not watch it because they don’t like the premise.

    Some people are apathetic and don’t care one way or another.

    The list and the reasons go on and on.

    In the end it does not matter what “fandom” thinks because it is the general audience that makes or breaks the show with ratings – not the fans on GW or other fan sites because we don’t add up enough to make a difference either way.

    But it is still fandom. And as long as there are venues that allow fans to express their joy about something and their disdain about something there will be these reactions. I think fandom allows people to explore the very best and the very worst. If you choose to be a part of fandom that is part of the package; you can like it or hate it but in the end that is the way it is.


    \

  13. #13
    Second Lieutenant LostCityGuardian's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2007
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    495

    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHomegaMan View Post
    Well folks, we're here again. Once again MGM has announced a new entry into the Stargate franchise, and once again fandom is in an uproar. We have people who apparently have enough information to condemn the show. We have people who have the clairvoyance to see just how it'll work out. We even have people who think that axing this new entry will somehow bring the old one back, or at least give them some smug sense of satisfaction. Heck, we're also watching people recycle the same old complaints about the previous new show and applying them to this one. Yes, my friends, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember the complaints before SGA launched? Remember the whole "I don't want Voyager again!" cry? If you don't, just watch the anti-SGU folks. If it didn't work for SGA, maybe it'll work here. You have to give them points for persistence. If you did that, though, you'd probably also have to give them to the guy who thinks that if he beats his head hard enough on a brick wall he'll eventually break through. People are once again attached, and in the absence of any real information they're doing their best to make sure that you possess the same warped view of the unaired, unwritten, and unproduced show that they do. Yes, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember watching these very boards while people brought out the boycott calls? Many of us do. We remember when fans thought that their voice was the only one that mattered. They acted as if they were the sole purveyors of what was good for the franchise. A team cut off from Earth, but with space vampires?! BOYCOTT! How many of them ended up watching SGA? I'm not packing numbers, but I'm willing to bet enough people gave in. They may or may not be the ones e-picketing and demanding that this show not go forward, or at least hope it tanks, but a new generation has taken that up. Once again, history is repeating itself.

    How many of us remember growing attached to the previous entry in the franchise, only to feel that the new kid on the block took all the focus? You felt that your beloved show would suffer or be canceled to make room for the shiny new toy. The doomsayers were convinced that SG-1 took a hit in early S8, and here they are blaming the new show for the demise of SGA. Do I even need to say it? History repeats itself.

    This isn't anything new for people who've been around GW and the Stargate franchise for a while. It always happens. Somehow, against all the odds, life goes on. If/when they decide to add another show sometime down the line, we'll have legions of fans protesting once again. SGU will be the new baby for fandom, and it has to be protected from the evil parents (TBTP) and their desire to crank out a new child to focus on.

    So what am I getting at? Get used to this now, folks, because it keeps on happening. Your reactions are not new, revolutionary, or terribly effective. To borrow a phrase from the show that truly sets the bar for contemporary science fiction storytelling, "All this has happened before, and will happen again."
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Agree entirely ... but unfortunately this is a period where emotion has taken hold and reason doesn't really get a look in.

  14. #14
    Captain Infinatus's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    I believe that the character descriptions for SGU are reason for concern when compared to the character descriptions for SGA. Teyla was the only character significantly altered from the original description, so if almost all of the SGU characters are the same I can say with certainty the show will be dreadful. Though hey, I'll still watch the pilot to give it a chance.

  15. #15
    Captain Infinatus's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by LostCityGuardian View Post
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Agree entirely ... but unfortunately this is a period where emotion has taken hold and reason doesn't really get a look in.
    Last I checked skepticism was pretty logical.

  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant LostCityGuardian's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinatus View Post
    Last I checked skepticism was pretty logical.
    How do I even answer that? As an example, is a Gateworld member skeptical because they hate that SGA was cancelled to make way for SGU? In that case, I would say the skepticism is not logical. Logic would say judge SGU on its own merits, not on the basis that it killed SGA. I think the basis of your judgement is what makes skepticism logical or illogical.

  17. #17
    Chief Master Sergeant General Yogi Bear's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Wow. Theres a lot of very good posts on here.
    People who are complaining about the show (SGU) need to have more faith in Brad Wright and Rob Cooper etc. they've shown that they know how to make good television. But of course Rick Berman of Star Trek had a good history too and he brought us Enterprise which in its first 2 seasons suffered from boring characters and lame stories that had been done before on the other star trek series. They finally got it right in season 4 but it was too late.
    We can only hope Brad and Rob don't repeat themselves as often as Atlantis has copied SG-1. Don't get me wrong I love Atlantis but there sure have been a lot of repeat stories such as more replicators and "oh no! we've been infected by an alien virus again" stories.
    The new cast for universe sounds alot like the characters we've seen in SG-1 and Atlantis, except they are younger. Which I hope will be interesting. But I can't really think of any show I like that has cast full of characters in their early 20's. And I'm 25. Ha.
    I'm cautiously optimistic about the show because I have faith in the writers but I see alot of potential problems. Sorry to be negative but its late.

  18. #18
    Captain Infinatus's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by LostCityGuardian View Post
    How do I even answer that? As an example, is a Gateworld member skeptical because they hate that SGA was cancelled to make way for SGU? In that case, I would say the skepticism is not logical. Logic would say judge SGU on its own merits, not on the basis that it killed SGA. I think the basis of your judgement is what makes skepticism logical or illogical.
    Maybe I shouldn't have even submitted that post. I meant that it's logical not to just put on some rose colored glasses and assume that a new show is going to be a blast just because you have a good feeling about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by General Yogi Bear View Post
    People who are complaining about the show (SGU) need to have more faith in Brad Wright and Rob Cooper etc.
    Yes. Hallowed are Brad Wright and Robert Cooper. Maybe we should stop discussing how we think SGU will turn out and just bow down and worship those two.

  19. #19
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinatus View Post
    Maybe I shouldn't have even submitted that post. I meant that it's logical not to just put on some rose colored glasses and assume that a new show is going to be a blast just because you have a good feeling about it.


    Yes. Hallowed are Brad Wright and Robert Cooper. Maybe we should stop discussing how we think SGU will turn out and just bow down and worship those two.

    And is it also logical not to hate on a show before really knowing how it is going to run, in your statement my friend you have completely contridicted yourself, while it isn't wrong to assume a show is going to be bad just because you think it will be bad, it also isn't wrong to assume it is going to be good either.

    At the end of the day, it is down to the individual if they watch it or not, the only difference is that ppl who post stuff about the show being crap will always be considered wrong because the majority of ppl dont like negativity, no matter how valid their points may seem

  20. #20
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: History seems to repeat itself...

    i think character development isnt bad. but i really think continuation is a much bigger issue. i think Scifi couldve been more subtile, by having SGA cancelled, waiting a week, and then reveal SGU is greenlit, and atlantis movies. this would remove all SGU replaces SGA talk. annother thing is:

    "aimed at a slightly younger audience".

    people read:

    "aimed at teens"

    "younger characters, more character development".

    people read.
    "teens lost in space, space opera".

    "a darker tone"

    people read
    "BSG"

    "stranded on a ship"

    people read

    "voyager".




    i wasnt on the forums during the announcement of SGA, but i bet that this isnt the first and certainly not the last time we see such ignorant and stupid comments about new series

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