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    Stupid Sheppard

    Was it just me or did Sheppard seem like a bit of an idiot in this eppisode? I mean trying to infiltrate the hive and rescue Teyla? What would make that a smart idea, its 3 of them versus a hive of warriors and past experiences would tell you they usually end up getting caught. I think the writers made him look like a complete idiot.

    #2
    Its not like they haven't done it before in SGA ot SG1.
    Originally posted by aretood2
    Jelgate is right

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      #3
      Originally posted by jelgate View Post
      Its not like they haven't done it before in SGA ot SG1.
      Very true.
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        #4
        Originally posted by Ackeb View Post
        Was it just me or did Sheppard seem like a bit of an idiot in this eppisode? I mean trying to infiltrate the hive and rescue Teyla? What would make that a smart idea, its 3 of them versus a hive of warriors and past experiences would tell you they usually end up getting caught. I think the writers made him look like a complete idiot.
        How long have you been watching the show? He always does stuff like that. It's a hero thing. It's no less stupid than SG-1 sneaking around a Goa'uld mothership being all heroic.

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          #5
          Originally posted by PuddleJumper42 View Post
          How long have you been watching the show? He always does stuff like that. It's a hero thing. It's no less stupid than SG-1 sneaking around a Goa'uld mothership being all heroic.
          Not very long actually There was just something about how he acted in this episode that I thought seemed more "stupid" then usual.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Ackeb View Post
            Was it just me or did Sheppard seem like a bit of an idiot in this eppisode? I mean trying to infiltrate the hive and rescue Teyla? What would make that a smart idea, its 3 of them versus a hive of warriors and past experiences would tell you they usually end up getting caught. I think the writers made him look like a complete idiot.
            He basically tried to ruin the whole thing at the first sign of "sort of trouble" because he assumed there was no way Teyla could actually handle things herself without him saving her.

            The Primary's ship jumps away, nothing else happens, and he's already jumping to

            "Well clearly then we must take Todd's hive here, hijack the bridge, and use it to start a battle with the other hive which Teyla is on so we can fly over by jumper and hopefully save her before it blows up, if she's not dead and assuming she does actually need rescuing of course, fingers crossed on both. Then after we rescue her we'll get to choose between turning on our jumper cloak and enjoying a slow miserable death stranded in the depths of interplanetary space with no FTL drive, or not cloaking and having which ever hive wins the fight we started blow the **** out of us while we try and take it down with less than a dozen drones, you know so we can win ourselves that whole "slow death in the void by starvation/thirst" I mentioned earlier. So who's with me!"

            Idiot doesn't begin to cover it really.

            He also earns bonus points for picking Ronan Dex to go on the "sit around a hiveship and wait patiently while enjoying the company of thousands of Wraiths in a very tenuous alliance" mission.

            If you look at this episode from the perspective that he's actually some sort of Russian or Chinese spy secretly trying to sabotage the SGC's mission here then it makes a lot more sense.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
              He basically tried to ruin the whole thing at the first sign of "sort of trouble" because he assumed there was no way Teyla could actually handle things herself without him saving her.
              Surely, as team leader, when the agreed plan changed, he was concerned that something had gone wrong and wanted to track the ship, infiltrate it, and to try and assist? Surely the logical conclusion would be that Teyla and Todd were in trouble? Especially when Todd's tracking device suddenly came on line? I mean if Todd was ok, and didn't need assistance, why did he activate it?

              Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post

              The Primary's ship jumps away, nothing else happens, and he's already jumping to

              "Well clearly then we must take Todd's hive here, hijack the bridge, and use it to start a battle with the other hive which Teyla is on so we can fly over by jumper and hopefully save her before it blows up, if she's not dead and assuming she does actually need rescuing of course, fingers crossed on both. Then after we rescue her we'll get to choose between turning on our jumper cloak and enjoying a slow miserable death stranded in the depths of interplanetary space with no FTL drive, or not cloaking and having which ever hive wins the fight we started blow the **** out of us while we try and take it down with less than a dozen drones, you know so we can win ourselves that whole "slow death in the void by starvation/thirst" I mentioned earlier. So who's with me!"

              Idiot doesn't begin to cover it really.
              I don't know how you've quite come up with this scenario? Mainly because this isn't what happened... As I said earlier, if Todd's tracking device hadn't come online, Sheppard, Kenny et al wouldn't have been able to track the Hive ship, would they? Thus the logical conclusion would have been that Todd wanted his Hive and the team to track and find them to render assistance.

              Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post

              He also earns bonus points for picking Ronan Dex to go on the "sit around a hiveship and wait patiently while enjoying the company of thousands of Wraiths in a very tenuous alliance" mission.

              If you look at this episode from the perspective that he's actually some sort of Russian or Chinese spy secretly trying to sabotage the SGC's mission here then it makes a lot more sense.
              I have to say, that might make sense to you, but to me? It sounds like an utter load of completely ridiculous and unfounded fantasy. But, heh, whatever floats your boat *Imagines Ronon as a Russian or Chinese spy and rolls around on the floor laughing*
              Last edited by Linzi; 23 September 2008, 10:09 PM.
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                #8
                Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                He basically tried to ruin the whole thing at the first sign of "sort of trouble" because he assumed there was no way Teyla could actually handle things herself without him saving her.

                The Primary's ship jumps away, nothing else happens, and he's already jumping to

                "Well clearly then we must take Todd's hive here, hijack the bridge, and use it to start a battle with the other hive which Teyla is on so we can fly over by jumper and hopefully save her before it blows up, if she's not dead and assuming she does actually need rescuing of course, fingers crossed on both. Then after we rescue her we'll get to choose between turning on our jumper cloak and enjoying a slow miserable death stranded in the depths of interplanetary space with no FTL drive, or not cloaking and having which ever hive wins the fight we started blow the **** out of us while we try and take it down with less than a dozen drones, you know so we can win ourselves that whole "slow death in the void by starvation/thirst" I mentioned earlier. So who's with me!"

                Idiot doesn't begin to cover it really.

                He also earns bonus points for picking Ronan Dex to go on the "sit around a hiveship and wait patiently while enjoying the company of thousands of Wraiths in a very tenuous alliance" mission.

                If you look at this episode from the perspective that he's actually some sort of Russian or Chinese spy secretly trying to sabotage the SGC's mission here then it makes a lot more sense.
                My reaction exactly.

                Originally posted by Linzi View Post
                I don't know how you've quite come up with this scenario? Mainly because this isn't what happened... As I said earlier, if Todd's tracking device hadn't come online, Sheppard, Kenny et al wouldn't have been able to track the Hive ship, would they? Thus the logical conclusion would have been that Todd wanted his Hive and the team to track and find them to render assistance.
                Or maybe Todd just wanted them to, you know, know where they were. After all, Todd's plan was working perfectly. Why would he want Sheppard & Co busting in there ruining everything?



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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                  He basically tried to ruin the whole thing at the first sign of "sort of trouble" because he assumed there was no way Teyla could actually handle things herself without him saving her.

                  The Primary's ship jumps away, nothing else happens, and he's already jumping to

                  "Well clearly then we must take Todd's hive here, hijack the bridge, and use it to start a battle with the other hive which Teyla is on so we can fly over by jumper and hopefully save her before it blows up, if she's not dead and assuming she does actually need rescuing of course, fingers crossed on both. Then after we rescue her we'll get to choose between turning on our jumper cloak and enjoying a slow miserable death stranded in the depths of interplanetary space with no FTL drive, or not cloaking and having which ever hive wins the fight we started blow the **** out of us while we try and take it down with less than a dozen drones, you know so we can win ourselves that whole "slow death in the void by starvation/thirst" I mentioned earlier. So who's with me!"

                  Idiot doesn't begin to cover it really.

                  He also earns bonus points for picking Ronan Dex to go on the "sit around a hiveship and wait patiently while enjoying the company of thousands of Wraiths in a very tenuous alliance" mission.

                  If you look at this episode from the perspective that he's actually some sort of Russian or Chinese spy secretly trying to sabotage the SGC's mission here then it makes a lot more sense.
                  Very true. Plus it was essentially a deep cover operation in which plans change and unexpected things happen, to go charging in is not only stupid but reckless, risking not only your own lives but the lives of those who undercover i.e. putting teyla in more danger than she was already in.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by fallenexile452 View Post
                    Very true. Plus it was essentially a deep cover operation in which plans change and unexpected things happen, to go charging in is not only stupid but reckless, risking not only your own lives but the lives of those who undercover i.e. putting teyla in more danger than she was already in.
                    Let's not forget that he's been lectured by two Atlantis leaders to not rush headlong into things without sufficient intel and prep-time. And that he's been MO of Atlantis for 4 years, that he's gone through 4 years of training, experience and whatnot...

                    And still he pulls these stunts. Hero or not, after 4 years in his position and the things he's gone through, he should know better. And I don't care if it's Sci-Fi, a TV-show or another galaxy, John's bad decision-making and judgment is just too severe.

                    If any of his superiors got wind of what goes on when John's in charge, he'd get fired and quite possibly courtmartialed 10 times over. Yes, suspension and disbelief and all of that crap. But why must we suspend our disbelief and logic every single time John decides to play "hero", which occurs several times each season? He's in a position of responsibility, he can't constantly let his emotions get the better of him.

                    I'm surprised his men haven't revolted and relieved him of his position by force. That or he lies like McCain-Palin on the mission reports and debriefings, thus, no one ever finds out about his incompetence and/or his friends (SGA-1, Lorne and others) help him cover it all up.

                    Ask anyone with a military background (like Flying Officer Bennett). Lieutenant Colonel John Sheppard is grossly incompetent for his position.

                    It might not matter to anyone who doesn't know about military protocols or stop to think about it for a few seconds (I know almost nothing about military protocols, but logical thinking allowed me to deduce that John's incompetent, anyway), but to those of us who know and have thought about it, it annoys us to no end each times he pulls a stunt like this.
                    Last edited by FallenAngelII; 24 September 2008, 09:36 AM.



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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Linzi View Post
                      Surely, as team leader, when the agreed plan changed, he was concerned that something had gone wrong and wanted to track the ship, infiltrate it, and to try and assist? Surely the logical conclusion would be that Teyla and Todd were in trouble? Especially when Todd's tracking device suddenly came on line? I mean if Todd was ok, and didn't need assistance, why did he activate it?
                      They said something to the effect of "his beacon was still online" as I recall. Not exactly the sort of thing a reasonable person is going to use an an excuse to throw the entire covert operation out the window for a chance to dance once more with his favorite dance parter, reckless unthinking violence.

                      I don't know how you've quite come up with this scenario? Mainly because this isn't what happened... As I said earlier, if Todd's tracking device hadn't come online, Sheppard, Kenny et al wouldn't have been able to track the Hive ship, would they? Thus the logical conclusion would have been that Todd wanted his Hive and the team to track and find them to render assistance.
                      Did you read the rest of my outline there about what would happen after they "rendered assistance", what would happen even if he succeeded? That's all pretty much accurate. The parts about them ending up stranded or facing down an angry hiveship and an entire wing of darts with nothing but a puddle jumper. He was basically going to flush the entire mission for a chance to commit elaborate suicide instead, dragging everyone else in the operation with him.

                      It's probably one of the worst examples of him never thinking the consequences of his actions through. There's virtually no way that his plan, as it was laid out in the episode, wouldn't have resulted in all their deaths.

                      It's all the more damning given the brutal reality that nothing was actually wrong. The only thing that saved them all from death at the hands of Sheppard's stupidity was that other ship encroaching on that planet just in time to order Teyla to move the Primary's hive again.

                      I have to say, that might make sense to you, but to me? It sounds like an utter load of completely ridiculous and unfounded fantasy. But, heh, whatever floats your boat *Imagines Ronon as a Russian or Chinese spy and rolls around on the floor laughing*
                      This part was a joke but yes, it would make more sense. This plot would make more sense if he was actualy working against them, trying to prevent the distribution of the Wraith drug and the Todd alliance but in some sort of way that's not too overtly obvious.

                      Even then though it might stress suspension of disbelief that neither Dex or Mckay noticed or objected to his obviously subversive actions.

                      Originally posted by fallenexile452 View Post
                      Very true. Plus it was essentially a deep cover operation in which plans change and unexpected things happen, to go charging in is not only stupid but reckless, risking not only your own lives but the lives of those who undercover i.e. putting teyla in more danger than she was already in.
                      That's pretty much it. This was Teyla's mission not Sheppard's. They knew from the start that it was going to be a difficult and challenging mission and that unexpected things could, and probably would happen. What he needed was to have faith in Teyla's ability that she'd be able to to meet whatever challenges faced her and deal with them.

                      That's his problem though, he doesn't. This episode revealed more than anything else that he doesn't really have faith in Teyla's abilities at all. It revealed that he looks at her more as someone who he needs to rescue and protect as oppossed to someone who's a skilled and competent individual in her own right.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ouroboros View Post
                        That's his problem though, he doesn't. This episode revealed more than anything else that he doesn't really have faith in Teyla's abilities at all. It revealed that he looks at her more as someone who he needs to rescue and protect as oppossed to someone who's a skilled and competent individual in her own right.
                        You know what? I was very glad that for a change, his "rescue plan" didn't work. They ended up in a wraith cell, having to wait for Teyla (and Todd) to rescue THEM. That, alone, felt good.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Laura Dove View Post
                          You know what? I was very glad that for a change, his "rescue plan" didn't work. They ended up in a wraith cell, having to wait for Teyla (and Todd) to rescue THEM. That, alone, felt good.
                          Oh, but you see, the PtB couldn't let Mary Sue-Sheppard fail completely. Had John not mounted the mission, the Primary's hive would've been destroyed due to Teyla's inane and idiotic battle tactics (which were idiotic themselves, why did she jeopardize everything just to kill off a few Wraith?!).

                          Had John not been there to Drone the enemy hive, Teyla and Todd would've died and the mission would've been a bust. Even when John fails due to stupidity, he still succeeds.

                          And from what we can see, there is no aftermath. No consequences for his rash behavior and breaking of protocol.



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                            #14
                            Pretty sure he Todd never deactivated his beacon in the first place. I also think I remember someone saying in doesnt work in hyperspace so it all of a sudden being on when the appear somewhere else in the galaxy wouldnt be that wierd.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                              Oh, but you see, the PtB couldn't let Mary Sue-Sheppard fail completely. Had John not mounted the mission, the Primary's hive would've been destroyed due to Teyla's inane and idiotic battle tactics (which were idiotic themselves, why did she jeopardize everything just to kill off a few Wraith?!).
                              True, Teyla's actions were pretty stupid too. I suppose she was willing to sacrifice herself in order to avoid the planet being culled, or something. Which is rather short-sighted as it would have meant losing all hope of a peaceful outcome with the wraith. *sigh*
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