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    Originally posted by mrscopterdoc View Post
    That has always bothered me.....it was strong enough for her to physically control a wraith queen not once but *twice*, and then she never has it again
    Don't get me started with this, how could Teyla manage that (and an unborn helping JUST doesn't work for me). In the Gift and Siege 1, we clearly see that Teyla is no match for a wraith. Which is just logical as the wraith are 1. 100% pure wraith , 2. have a lot more experience.

    Overall this episode could have been so much more, if we would have seen the real queen from Todd (why not an episode with only the wraiths and without our invincible SGA team) and her and Todd's scheming. But instead they had it to turn into something ridiculous like this episode. My main complains are:

    1. How did McKay know Todd lost his Queen in THE SEER. They could only know that from Todd and why would he do that. Clearly he would lose a strategic advantage as the lanteans would recognize him to be more powerful with a queen. And about the uber-queen only speaking with a queen. Surely to negotiate the joining of the alliance this uber-queen would have wanted to do that with Todd's queen. So he would have needed one in the beginning, talking about plot holes.

    2. With only surgery I really don't think the wraith could be tricked. In NML the wraith queen clearly states "But I fear, Michael, that the lingering stench of what they have transformed you into will never fade". And he was almost a wraith, ergo a lot more wraith DNA than Teyla. And if they had increased the wraith DNA in Teyla that would make for some interesting changes not to mention if that is possible anyway to specific add DNA without compromising Teylas human side.

    3. What happened to the telepathic network of the wraiths, hello? That was so puny, pushing this alarm device instead of telepathically inform them all and better, who did it. *sigh*

    4. It was so fully loaded with human clichés, changing of power by treachery (couldn't that get difficult with a telepathic species?), bowing. Come on, something more original is not too much to be asked for, they are wraith not humans. They should have invested more time in what the wraith were saying. The wraith speek in a rather elaborate and formal way (at least what we saw from Steve, Bob and the others). I would have liked that they developed on this more rather than on bowing sequences and blund speech (the queen will leave but not forget us, oh my, thanks mom). For what we have seen so far in other eps about the interactions between queens and male wraiths (rising part 2, hive, allies etc). Male wraith have no need to show their inferiority as queens don't need to show their superiority. We alread had some background on queen interactions here but instead of building up on that they just invented an entirely new way.

    5. Why would Teyla risk getting killed herself by attacking the other hive. Just out of revenge, she was never shown as that kind of person. Well, if it would be Ronan, that's a different story. But Teyla did not only jeopardize her life but also the whole mission. If she or Todd are dead, the control over the alliance is gone.

    6. And what happened to the cure Todd wanted to synthesize from the data he got in KINDRED? Even if he didn't manage that
    Spoiler:
    another hive in OUTSIDERS was very close in having a screening test, so why not Todd with all those background data.
    But I forgot wraith are stupid unless it serves the plot.

    So overall this episode was more than just disappointing. Another great opportunity lost to show real wraith interaction.
    Last edited by Skie; 21 March 2011, 10:40 AM.
    Blue is such a nice color, especially if you have wings.

    Comment


      Oh, I think I found another plot hole.
      In SOW Todd planned to use the cloning facility. "The Queen creates a handful of warriors, each of which is then reproduced thousands of times over." But if he lost his queen already in THE SEER, how would he do that without a queen? And in the unlikely event he head a second queen up his sleeves, she wouldn't be on that ship as it fighted against the Replicators. You wouldn't risk that as many of their ships are without queen (Todd's statement). Um, but would you really invent something like the cloning facility and don't have the means of powering it? Waste of material to say the least.
      Blue is such a nice color, especially if you have wings.

      Comment


        Another good episode. This is turning out to be a great season so far.

        That Wraith space battle was awesome looking.

        Tomorrow, Mike Dopud in his, what is this, his 3rd role (or is it 2nd role).
        sigpic

        Comment


          A good episode. It's just so weird to see them working with the Wraith, the fun though is wondering when it all goes south! Todd is a great character with very questionable motives, it's a joy to see a clever villain who manipulates his tenuous allies constantly. He's so wonderfully smarmy about it too, definitely one of the best characters on SGA for me.

          Teyla did a great job at being a Wraith Queen, even though credibility was stretched to the limit with trying to believe that she could pull it off with surgery to make her look like one and not be noticed acting oddly.

          The other Queen's second in command reminded me more of a genii rather than a Wraith!

          Comment


            Originally posted by NowIWillDestroyAbydos View Post
            Another good episode. This is turning out to be a great season so far.

            That Wraith space battle was awesome looking.

            Tomorrow, Mike Dopud in his, what is this, his 3rd role (or is it 2nd role).
            At least 3rd appearance, not including non-speaking appearances. Plus, he's got a role in SGU, as well.

            Comment


              I have an all time high love for Christopher Heyerdahl now. After seeing him at a panel yesterday. So now I love Todd and all his other characters even more now.

              Todd has gotten very good at using his pet humans.

              Damn Teyla looked freaky. Shouldn't the queen still have been able to tell that Teyla wasn't a Wraith. Seeing as how they could sense Michael was changed.

              The other queens captain was weird looking for a Wraith. Must be the bald head.

              Teyla was sneaky getting all those Wraith killed. I had a feeling she really enjoyed that.

              Must have been hard for Todd not to feed on Teyla after she threatened to have him removed, permanently.
              sigpic

              Comment


                After reading some of the reviews in this thread I decided to write on of my own, because I agree with some aspects of the reviews, but not with others.

                Anyway, episode opens in such a way that it piques our interest -- why is McKay nervous about whatever they're up to? Cue awe from Keller upon seeing hive, and we start to get a clearer picture. I disagree that she often plays the 'deer in headlights' role. People seem to forget that Carson was often as nervous; in the beginning of the series it's claimed he doesn't want the ATA gene, firing drones scares the bejesus out of him, defending Atlantis against a dart in a puddle-jumper is nerve-wracking, not to mention flying the city and his unease at visiting another planet ("I was already on an alien planet!") Unfortunately, if somebody has to play the easily startled role, it's usually McKay, only this time McKay is more of a veteran; he's seen his fair share of hives, and even been kidnapped aboard one. So naturally the role falls to Keller.

                Onto our raison d'être. Puddle-jumper lands in hive bay, but we don't really feel any sense of threat from the Wraith soldiers and their weapons. We move on to the meeting room (nice table) and of course all chuckle at the fruit bowl/farmers joke. I particularly liked Todd's partially-reassuring partially-patronising "I know who he is" in response to Keller's attempt to describe Michael. For the first time we meet Kenny (yay) who seems to be playing the role of 'bad cop'. We also see Todd looking thoughtful. Dun dun duuun!

                More team-talk, all pretty predictable. Ronon doesn't want to be there and is in favour of killing all the Wraith rather than trying to 'fix' them. Teyla points out the humanitarian aspect in weaning the Wraith off people. John prophetically states "There's something going on here. Something he [Todd] is not telling us." Too bad Sheppard's sixth-sense only works erratically at best.

                We then learn a little about Todd's machinations; he's apparently bluffed his way into the alliance. Personally I think it makes more sense that his Queen started negotiations into the alliance before she was killed in her ship about Atlantis the year before, and Todd simply continued with the negotiation as if nothing had happened. This could have all been done without voice/face communication, so the Primary wouldn't have been any the wiser. Anyway, I liked Todd's nonchalant shrug and the way he casually dismisses his lies as simple necessity, even though I doubt it was anything but simple.

                Now the part that people seem to like or dislike. The John/Teyla talk. Some feel it adds to the characters, some feel it's a waste of time. The impression I get is that they're using John/Teyla in the same way that Lost uses Hurley -- to ask the questions that the audience is thinking and provide some answers. In this case, why go through with the plan? Why risk Teyla's life? Why not just sit back and watch the Wraith fight? Etc.

                The next bit seems to confuse some people. It's pretty obvious that Teyla's changes are superficial (cosmetic surgery) and do not in any way, shape or form, alter her genome. Everything in that room is surgical equipment, and Keller states she's the one doing the surgery. Furthermore, there has never been any mention of developing a gene therapy to turn people INTO Wraith. If this was the case, Teyla would not be 'the only person' who could help Todd -- anybody would do.

                We have surgery fun and discover Teyla has butt-chin. Skip to Todd tutoring Teyla on how to be a queen; I thought the visuals here were amazing, with Teyla in the light and Todd talking to her from the shadows. Really quite chilling, and probably one of my favourite visual scenes from the entire series. It can be seen as an analogy for how Teyla feels about not only the Wraith, but herself. It's also an excellent piece of foreshadowing.

                Teyla makes an excellent first impression as a Wraith queen, evidenced by Todd's "she likes you". I get the feeling Teyla actually enjoyed it, having power and giving orders and having Wraith obey her, even though it was ultimately a lie.

                Bald Wraith was creepy, but ultimately a good commander. He doesn't let the hive stay where Todd's hive is, in case they're betrayed. Quite canny, and a lesson Todd could learn from him, given that he's been (or will be) betrayed more than once by his lackeys. Unlike others, I didn't 'see' the ship going into hyperspace before it happened, but it made for a more interesting scenario.

                Todd's attempts at being subservient are pretty poor. I think he's been without a queen for too long! Though he seems to keen on doing his own thing that I have to wonder how he ever managed to obey a queen in the first place, even his own. I've read people claiming that the Primary was killed too quickly, but when the carotid or jugular are severed, you have only a few seconds in which to live unless somebody acts fast. I do think there should have been more blood (maybe not completely Kill Bill style) and it was lame how the Primary activated her necklace instead of just sending a telepathic burst to advise her subordinates of how and why she was killed.

                Todd's logic in explaining why Teyla has to take ownership of the killing is quite flawless, and I love how when she asks what will if the Primary's crew don't believe them, he casually says "then we're both dead" with a sort of half-smile. Even now he's still keeping his cool and has all of his confidence. And Teyla really comes through, forcing Baldy and the other Wraith to accept her. I think she's coming to enjoy the power even more.

                Teyla's initial reluctance to intervene with the enemy hive above their feeding ground really makes Baldy suspicious. As for her ordering an attack, I don't think she was thinking like herself. She was clearly pissed at Todd and the positive he's put her in, and I think this is her revenge. Also, there was no Wraith dart going backwards, it was just the other darts around it travelling at a faster speed.

                I don't like how the Wraith refer to their ships as 'darts' to each other. That's the human name for them. They should have a cool Wraith name, like Goa'uld ships got their own names.

                The team's rescue plan wasn't brilliant, but as far as they were aware, Teyla and Todd had been kidnapped and were possibly being tortured/killed, so of course they took risks (unnecessarily). John's flippant response to what's going to happen to them once the queen arrives is pretty amusing, and shows just how many times they've been in that sort of situation (three? four?).

                Teyla's bossfight with Baldy was pretty pathetic, she practically rolled over and let him kick her ass. Bring back Teyla Warrior Princess, I say! Though I do get the impression from watching her walk, and sit, that those hot leather clothes she's wearing don't allow for much flexibility (and as somebody who wears full leathers when biking, I can personally endorse that fact) so it could be her movement was quite restricted.

                Anyway, I like the episode because of the insight into Wraith politics. Also the acting (Rachel Luttrell and Chris Heyerdahl) was fantastic. When you're wearing so much makeup and prosthetic you can't use facial expression as much as other actors, so create a character using just voice and action, plus well-timed pauses, is a great thing. I got the impression that Teyla studying her hand at the end of the ep was a combination of ensuring she really was back to normal, and also considering how her life might have been different had she been born with just a little more Wraith DNA.

                There were some obvious flaws -- why didn't the Primary detect Teyla's human DNA? Why did the Wraith never use their telepathic network? But overall I can forgive the little faults because I was entertained by the episode. I do agree with whoever it was that said Todd is becoming more humanised. The fact that he's willing to work with humans when necessary, when all other Wraith would remain defiant (even Michael's queen was only going along with their alliance to get access to Earth, using both the Atlantis team and Michael to reach her goal).

                Edit: Oh, and one more flaw. When Kenny is first introduced, his facial markings are on his left cheek. Later, they're on the right.
                Last edited by The Urban Spaceman; 15 October 2012, 11:45 AM.
                Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


                Comment


                  Midweek, another ep of Atlantis...

                  1. Ah, forgot about the feeding thing...

                  2. Teyla did pretty good as a Queen...

                  3. Teyla was a bit weak in that last fight though...

                  Overall, a nice blag.
                  I SURF FOR THE FREEDOM!

                  Comment


                    You ever notice every Teyla episode is about her Wraith DNA? Just a thought that its the only story they can come up with. Its also shows the character is poorly written. I thought it was an interesting episode. If Spoils of War is an episode that gives insight into Wraith biology then The Queen gives us insight into the Wraith society. We also kind of knew the Wraith had a hive like mentality simliar to bee hive for example. But this episode gives us insight into how the Wraith act specfically why hive ships need a queen and what function she has for the Wraith. That ultimately what makes me like this episode seeing how Wraith society function as Todd gets Teyla into seats of power. Sheppherd and company just seems like a waste of time. They really serve no purpose to add time to an episode. Given episodes that shown nothing but McKay or nothing but Sheppherit would have been nice to make this nothing but Teyla. I think it would have been nice chemistry to put her alongside Todd for a whole episode as the two actors had chemistry together. All in all its a good episode with some extra undeeded scenes
                    Originally posted by aretood2
                    Jelgate is right

                    Comment


                      From Joe Mallozzi's Blog:

                      THE QUEEN (508)

                      Another great thing about working on Stargate was that the show allowed us immense creative freedom. Variety was the key when it came to the stories – and that, I’m certain, was one of the keys to the franchise’s longevity. As I mentioned in my Whispers post, we dabbled in a variety of genres: comedy, horror, fantasy, westerns. We offered a nice mix of standalone episodes (the perfect jumping-on point for first time viewers) and arc-driven stories (rewarding longtime viewers as well). Some episodes would be huge, VFX-laden spectacles while others would be smaller, character-focused tales. We could go anywhere (Earth, space, off-world, the past, the future) and feature anyone because we had an infinitely capable cast, every one of them capable of stepping up to carry an episode. In Broken Ties, it was Jason Momoa delivering a performance for the ages. In The Shrine, it was David Hewlett in one of his most memorable performances to date. And, in The Queen, it was Rachel Luttrell’s turn, undergoing a stunning transformation – not to mention hours of prosthetics and make-up – to impress us all were her own tour-de-force.

                      Photos:


                      Queen’s Pendant


                      Todd’s hidden knife


                      Wraith Commander’s sword


                      Chris Heyerdahl and Director Brenton Spencer discuss the script. ”You don’t really expect me to say that, do you?”(Photo @MGM Television)


                      Wraith Queens = BFF! (Photo @MGM Television)
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        Not as bad as I would have thought.
                        But are the Wraith not telepathic?
                        I loved the special effects.
                        And the Wraith humor:
                        "I hope they prove as delicious as the farmers who grew them"

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Lythisrose View Post
                          From Joe Mallozzi's Blog:

                          THE QUEEN (508)

                          Another great thing about working on Stargate was that the show allowed us immense creative freedom. Variety was the key when it came to the stories – and that, I’m certain, was one of the keys to the franchise’s longevity. As I mentioned in my Whispers post, we dabbled in a variety of genres: comedy, horror, fantasy, westerns. We offered a nice mix of standalone episodes (the perfect jumping-on point for first time viewers) and arc-driven stories (rewarding longtime viewers as well). Some episodes would be huge, VFX-laden spectacles while others would be smaller, character-focused tales. We could go anywhere (Earth, space, off-world, the past, the future) and feature anyone because we had an infinitely capable cast, every one of them capable of stepping up to carry an episode. In Broken Ties, it was Jason Momoa delivering a performance for the ages. In The Shrine, it was David Hewlett in one of his most memorable performances to date. And, in The Queen, it was Rachel Luttrell’s turn, undergoing a stunning transformation – not to mention hours of prosthetics and make-up – to impress us all were her own tour-de-force.

                          Photos:


                          Queen’s Pendant


                          Todd’s hidden knife


                          Wraith Commander’s sword


                          Chris Heyerdahl and Director Brenton Spencer discuss the script. ”You don’t really expect me to say that, do you?”(Photo @MGM Television)


                          Wraith Queens = BFF! (Photo @MGM Television)
                          I just wanted to say that i like the picture of the wraith cmdr. sword. I just turned on my roku and am watching this episode now. I know all of SG-1 eps memorized. But i still haven't watched Atlantis enough to remember the episode. But i do enjoy the series more then SGU. Anyway ill talk more after i see the ep again.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Cluas View Post
                            Not as bad as I would have thought.
                            But are the Wraith not telepathic?
                            I loved the special effects.
                            And the Wraith humor:
                            "I hope they prove as delicious as the farmers who grew them"
                            LOL that's what Todd the Wraith says i just got it.Nice!!
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Skie View Post
                              Don't get me started with this, how could Teyla manage that (and an unborn helping JUST doesn't work for me). In the Gift and Siege 1, we clearly see that Teyla is no match for a wraith. Which is just logical as the wraith are 1. 100% pure wraith , 2. have a lot more experience.
                              well said!
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                These diplomatic talks between the Humans and the Wraith were rather one sided. Unlike in "Common Ground" where we met Todd the Wraith. As usual, the Humans felt no shame proposing that other races decrease their life span or die. Humans think that life of 30 years followed by several decades of rapid decay is some kind of a universal stadard. That is understandable, but not the weak reaction of the Wraith. Sheppard was practically allowed to give orders there.

                                The team should have at least been disarmed when Ronan pointed his gun at the pilot. And probably sooner. Just like the Wraith were subject to security checks at random intervals when they were working on the retrovirus earlier.

                                Consider that the Wraith, as a complete surprise, had proposed humans a solution to the overpopulation on Earth and lack of food sources, as well as our meager abilities to heal. They would, with permission, feed upon humans with a new process that also injects them with an "enzyme" that may – possibly – give part of the "subjects" longer lives and more space on the planet. When the research is perfected. How would Atlantis react to it?

                                Spoiler:
                                Turning Teyla into a Wraith was wrong. She despises them, just like Ronan, and wouldn't have agreed to what should have amounted to a total mutilation of her body, including on the inside – voice and eyes. They "reversed" it without providing any description of the process. The operation also wasn't shown at all. Teyla did not acquire any of the mental powers that should have been demonstrated by her when she assumed control. At least she had to do the KNEEL-Kneel-Kneel attack, and take at least one life physically.


                                The transformation seemed to me like a costume party on TV. What was missing was some kind of a chemical & biological infection administered by Todd to cloud the imposter's mind, and grow her some Wraith parts.

                                Also I noticed that the screen where the star map was shown on the Wraith ship had rectangular pixels.

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