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Could we stop putting all of our eggs in the same basket?

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    Could we stop putting all of our eggs in the same basket?

    Seriously, remember "Reunion" or whatever where Sam randomly went out to help rescue SGA-1 along with a bunch of other very important personnel? I mean, if they'd all been captured and killed, Atlantis would've been tons of leading officers short.

    And again it happens! And this wasn't even a combat situation where they had to do it or where it was important to do it for the greater good. This was just saying goodbye to a good friend.

    But, they still stuff John (military commander), Rodney (chief scientist)(OK, so he was kinda mandatory) and Jennifer (chief medical officer) into the same jumper to go into Wraith infested territory hoping to trick them.

    What kind of BS is this?! "Oh, we just want to take a little time off to say goodbye. If we all die, have fun scrambling for replacements!".

    The episode was great. I teared up a few times, but that part just ticked me off so much.

    (Yes, I do realize that without Jennifer there, the dramatic surgery part wouldn't have been possible. But my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. Why does Atlantis' leaders keep condoning stupid stuff like this?)




    #2
    They've been doing this in action adventure shows pretty much forever... go watch any episode of any series of Star Trek and you'll see the same thing happen. It is deeply unrealistic I agree but watching Sheppard, Keller and McKay sit behind a desk filing reports every week wouldn't be very interesting.

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      #3
      Originally posted by pilgrim soul View Post
      They've been doing this in action adventure shows pretty much forever... go watch any episode of any series of Star Trek and you'll see the same thing happen. It is deeply unrealistic I agree but watching Sheppard, Keller and McKay sit behind a desk filing reports every week wouldn't be very interesting.
      Star Trek can be really funny sometimes. There have been some cases where the entire bridge crew beam down to a planet and leave junior officers on the bridge. If something happened and the ship had to raise shields (or the away team is all killed) then the ship would be left without all their senior officers and the entire command structure on the ship would collapse.

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        #4
        Originally posted by ykickamoocow View Post
        Star Trek can be really funny sometimes. There have been some cases where the entire bridge crew beam down to a planet and leave junior officers on the bridge. If something happened and the ship had to raise shields (or the away team is all killed) then the ship would be left without all their senior officers and the entire command structure on the ship would collapse.
        DS9 was the worst. Most of the time whenever the Defiant went anywhere, the station's entire command staff - and often Quark - would go on it. I swear they must have left Morn in charge...

        But, yeah, it's for the drama. It's like back in Search and Rescue - realistically, Sheppard wouldn't have gone on Michael's ship, but we don't want to watch some random Marines, and it's more dramatic.

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          #5
          It's perfectly realistic; Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, and Teyla make up Atlantis' primary offworld team. Yes, the first two also hold high positions, but if you really wantto keep them safe, take them off the team and replace them with someone else.

          Otherwise, this was just like any other mission offworld on any other day that required a medical officer. High-ranking doctors do have to go in the field sometimes, and Sheppard/McKay go into Wraith territory on a daily basis.

          I don't see the problem.
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            #6
            Well, humans do have emotions, so going to say bye isn't abusive.

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              #7
              If we break down the team, it makes more sense.

              Sheppard - Pilots the jumper, close friend to McKay. As was evident, Sheppard was like a mother to McKay during this episode.
              Teyla/Ronon - Friends of McKay, knew about the Shrine of Talus so are essential.
              Keller - Head doctor monitoring McKay. Essential to have her since she knows fully about his condition.
              Jeanie - McKay's sister.
              Marines - Guard the team against the Wraith if a threat occurs.

              This mission was more about friendship than achieving McKay's permanent perfect health (if this was so, they would've sent a second jumper with medical equipment/staff), and hence why they brought non-field food (pass the ham! ). Also, don't count out the rest of the Atlantis Expedition, I'm sure there's other staff there that we never hear about that command the base other than Woolsey, namely when his shift is up.

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                #8
                Originally posted by s09119 View Post
                It's perfectly realistic; Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, and Teyla make up Atlantis' primary offworld team. Yes, the first two also hold high positions, but if you really wantto keep them safe, take them off the team and replace them with someone else.

                Otherwise, this was just like any other mission offworld on any other day that required a medical officer. High-ranking doctors do have to go in the field sometimes, and Sheppard/McKay go into Wraith territory on a daily basis.

                I don't see the problem.
                First of all, there was no need for Jennifer to be there, none. Heck, there wasn't any need for a doctor at all. There was nothing they could do for Rodney from a medical standpoint, nothing. He was dying, with only days left. And no medicine could prevent or even postpone that.

                Jennifer just went because she wanted to, to have a chance to say goodbye or whatnot. They had no idea how the Shrine worked and that Jennifer would be able to extract the creature.

                Next, this isn't a mission. It wasn't something that needed to be done and even if they were to do it, it wasn't something that so many high ranked officers had to go for. There were no lives in jeopardy, no enemies to fight off. To risk so much of the senior staff just for a chance to say goodbye is moronic.

                And John's said so himself: They've engaged the Wraith before, but try not to whenever they can. Because a lot of the time, they only get out of it alive due to sheer luck (and stupidity from the Wraiths' side).

                According to Ronon's story, there was no cure. Rodney would die. Sure, it was heart-breaking, sure, it was unfair, sure they deserved to say goodbye. But why risk the lives of two extra senior officers just for a chance to say goodbye?

                For all they knew, all they had to do was to bring Rodney there and he'd get better. Judging from Ronon's story, they didn't even have to stay (for all they knew), just get him there and then they can go back.

                No, it isn't logical at all. And that's annoying. Atlantis is still good in my book, but we regularly get tons of stupidity thrown our way that we're supposed to just accept "for the sake of drama".

                Originally posted by Enzo Aquarius View Post
                Stuff.
                A lot of people can pilot the jumper. It's not like it's hard to fly from point A to point B as long as you have that pesky gene.

                Jennifer was not needed. Rodney's condition was that his brain cells were being laid dormant... with no way to reverse or stop it. There was nothing to do for him. And there was nothing that needed him to have medical attention 24/7.

                Twist and turn it all you want, Jennifer's presence was in no way necessary. John wasn't mandatory for the mission either. Saying goodbye is good and all but, hey, 3 of Atlantis highest ranking staff gone in one blast and the city will be in shambles for weeks to come.

                And what good would saying goodbye have been, really? "Oh, I'm so sorry to see you go. Let's have a last picnic!" - gee, fun! Sentimental and stuff. Worth jeopardizing the lives of, what, 50% of Atlantis' senior staff, all of whom are the highest ranking in their fields? Not really.

                The only person who really needed to be there was Jeannie because she was his sister and she hadn't had a chance to say goodbye. And even then it was pretty BS to fly into Wraith-infested territory.
                Last edited by FallenAngelII; 26 August 2008, 11:29 AM.



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                  #9
                  Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                  First of all, there was no need for Jennifer to be there, none. Heck, there wasn't any need for a doctor at all. There was nothing they could do for Rodney from a medical standpoint, nothing. He was dying, with only days left. And no medicine could prevent or even postpone that.
                  True, when they left for the shrine there was nothing Keller could do to save McKay from a medical standpoint, but he was still her patient, even if he was dying.

                  Based on my experience with medical professionals, doctors do not simply discharge their patients to someone without being sure they are qualified to take care of their patient. Even if that patient is dying.

                  I think a doctor was necessary because even if they didn't think they could cure McKay, they could make him comfortable, give him medication if the shrine caused him pain or sedate him if he lost further control. It doesn't matter that they couldn't do anything to keep him from dying, a doctor would want to make sure their patient was comfortable until the end.

                  Did the CMO herself have to go? Probably not, but I think it was simply the writer using dramatic license. It is the same reason Sheppard as military commander of Atlantis is on a front-line team. Most viewers want to see the main characters being involved in the dramatic moments of the episode, not unknown medics/soldiers/pilots, even though using the unknowns would probably be more realistic.

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                    #10
                    It seems like you would much prefer to see a show about Vulcans. The issue shouldn't be if someone's decision is logical or not, it should be if its believable for a character to make that decision. The main characters are generally people who act on emotion and gut feelings a lot of the time. They mix logic in, but it's not the end all and be all for them. As a result things may usually work out for them, but they do go very wrong too (i.e. Mckay's very emotional actions in attempting to save Weir's life). There are plenty of real people who do these things, even in high ranking positions. There are also many people who have the same attitude as you do and we see them in people like Woolsey, Caldwell, Ellis, etc. They make arguments very much akin to yours when Sheppard or whoever gets an idea like this. Sometimes they shut them down completely, sometimes the main characters go off and do their own thing anyway, and sometimes they are flexible to a certain degree. Such as here where Woolsey allowed Sheppard to take the risk on his own behalf (I'm not even sure if Keller got approval or she just showed up).

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by EvenstarSRV View Post
                      Stuff.
                      There was nothing to do for Rodney medically. At most, they'd have to give him sedatives. And I'm fairly certain John, Teyla, Jeannie and Ronon are qualified enough to give people shots.

                      Again, Rodney didn't suffer from anything that required constant supervision.

                      Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                      Stuff.
                      In the real world, 999 out of 1000 people in positions like Richard's, John's and Jennifer's would've thought it tremendously stupid to do what they did in this episode and not condone it.

                      Emotional and human or not, that was just moronic. And Richard should be stripped of his position for it. What is it with the leaders or Atlantis and letting John carry out his hairbrained schemes?



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                        #12
                        What do you suggest should've happened?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by PG15 View Post
                          What do you suggest should've happened?
                          1) Not go on the stupid mission to begin with (seriously, using a smoke screen and hoping they wouldn't see the jumper?!)
                          2) Do it but with no senior staff (besides Rodney) present.

                          Seriously, they should've just skipped the Wraith-thing.



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                            #14
                            Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                            There was nothing to do for Rodney medically. At most, they'd have to give him sedatives. And I'm fairly certain John, Teyla, Jeannie and Ronon are qualified enough to give people shots.

                            Again, Rodney didn't suffer from anything that required constant supervision.
                            Again, based on my experience working at a hospice, any patient that is about to die requires constant supervision by medical personnel, even if it's just checking their pulse, BP, and respirations every half an hour.

                            And although I still haven't seen a lot of SGA season 2 or 3, from what I have seen I never got the impression that the others know much about end-of-life care, or how to properly administer sedatives.

                            Personally, I just like seeing the main characters being involved in an episode's plot as much as possible.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by FallenAngelII View Post
                              There was nothing to do for Rodney medically. At most, they'd have to give him sedatives. And I'm fairly certain John, Teyla, Jeannie and Ronon are qualified enough to give people shots.

                              Again, Rodney didn't suffer from anything that required constant supervision.


                              In the real world, 999 out of 1000 people in positions like Richard's, John's and Jennifer's would've thought it tremendously stupid to do what they did in this episode and not condone it.

                              Emotional and human or not, that was just moronic. And Richard should be stripped of his position for it. What is it with the leaders or Atlantis and letting John carry out his hairbrained schemes?
                              I'm no medic or doctor...

                              But if I was Keller, and I'd been dragged to somewhere that was supposed to "cure" my patient, I'd want to know why. After my initial scepticism, when I see I'm going anyway, I'd assume it would work and then think "so WHY is it working" can I USE this to cure him?" that's what I thought whilst watching. Personally I think they shoulda brought the med stuff straight off.


                              "Five Rounds Rapid"

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