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Thread: Gemini (811)

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    i think it's humanised Sam in my eyes that she
    can be failable and make mistakes.
    Do you know, this point never occurred to me until I read your post? And here I've been, watching some earlier episodes lately and quietly bemoaning the fact that Sam's had a tendency to become infallible over the years and wishing we could see her make more mistakes rather than have everyone expect her to pull the rabbit out of the hat and her doing so repeatedly and constantly each week? Geez. Don't even notice when I get what I want.

    Thanks for pointing this out to me! I'll watch this one with even more enjoyment now as it balances all those episodes with InfallibleCarter. (Not that I hate any of those, but a little variety is always nice )

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  2. #62
    Stargate: Horizon Supervising Producer samjack4ever's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by tara3583
    I don't blame Sam for trusting her. She wouldn't expect herselt to be bad and she felt sorry for her being held prisoner by fifth and probably tortured like her

    That is what i thought and had no problem with how Sam delt with her but i do want to see how Sam will deal with the fall out from this, also
    i think it's humanised Sam in my eyes that she
    can be failable and make mistakes.
    I agree and think some are being a bit too hard on Sam and not giving RC enough credit.

    First of all RC tells them that she wants to die because she can no longer bear to be with Fifth. Immediately Sam relates to this, as she can fully understand why. Also by stating that she wants to die doesn’t put SG1 on the defensive.



    She also played on the fact that Sam didn’t want to see any ‘evil’ in herself. After all didn’t fifth recreated not only her physical form but her thoughts and feelings as well? If RC were evil and capable of evil doings, what would that say about Sam?
    Last edited by samjack4ever; February 19th, 2005 at 04:04 PM.

  3. #63
    Second Lieutenant kodamawu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    i guess this finally answers the much debated question of why the asgard havent come to visit atlantis yet, im just wondering what happened to daniel. he goes up in the elevator right as the alarm goes off, he doesnt look too thrilled even at the idea of going to atlantis, and then he just disappears.
    Ford: You know we still haven't named the planet yet
    Sheppard: I'm sure the ancients have a name for it
    Ford: How about atlantica? Something like that
    Sheppard: I thought we agreed you were not going to name anything anymore

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I thought Daniel was thrilled at the idea of going to Atlantis - it was the possibility that he might not be allowed to go. Even with Sam's reassurance that while Jack wouldn't let the whole team go, he'd probably be ok with just one of them on the Prometheus.

    From the converstation, I took it that Prometheus Unbound was happening in the same time frame as Gemini, hence no Daniel. I expect that next week we won't see much if any Jack, Sam or Tealc. I don't think that I'm the only one who saw the episode that way?

    I loved that Sam was taken in by Replicarter, I thought that was a good insight into Sam's character. Not that she is gullible, but for the first time I realised that Sam has never acknowledged that she might have a 'darkside'. That aspect of her personality came out in Replicarter, and one reason that Sam just didn't see it was that she was being blind to it. She didn't want to recognise that in herself, therefore she wasn't about to recognise it in Replicarter.

    She wasn't 'too trusting', she was too quick to think of Replicarter as being the same as herself.

    Within the context of the military, she can keep down that 'dark side' that likes the idea of power - in the air force there is a hierachy, and rules to follow. What would Sam be like if there wasn't that framework around her? Would she be more arrogant, less capable of compassion, and more ambitious in terms of power? Would she have been far more likely to have used her incredible intelligence for her own personal gain?

    These are all incredibly uncomfortable questions that Sam must be asking herself now, and I'm glad. It was about time she got taken outside her comfort zone!


  5. #65
    Lieutenant Colonel michelleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Fischer
    I doubt that was referring to Jack or her own intelligence. I think the more likely explaination is that it refers to her abilities to use Goa'uld technology from her experiance with Jolinar. She is always loathed to use the ribbon device or the healing device.

    Yes, she used a few times earlier on, but sonce then, she hasn't used her tok'ra abilities at all. I thought the writers had forgotten she could use a hand device.

    I think the whole 'you obey the rules, do as you're told, and repress your desires' refers not just to jack, or her tok'ra side, or the times she's obeyed orders against her better judgement, but to all aspects of her life. as she points out, RC is her....just with a different life. She could have become as manipulative, cunning, and powerful as Replicarter, if things had been different in her life.

    And..I think Replicarter was a brilliant villain. AT played her with this cool amusement, and a passion for power that fitted perfectly. I think she could easily become one of the top five Stargate villains.

  6. #66
    Second Lieutenant AlphaBlu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I loved that episode. I love episodes where we don't win.

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  7. #67
    Lieutenant Colonel michelleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by GateGipsy

    From the converstation, I took it that Prometheus Unbound was happening in the same time frame as Gemini, hence no Daniel. I expect that next week we won't see much if any Jack, Sam or Tealc. I don't think that I'm the only one who saw the episode that way?
    yes, i saw it that way too...he would have been back at base, supporting sam, at least at the end, if he'd been there.

    I loved that Sam was taken in by Replicarter, I thought that was a good insight into Sam's character. Not that she is gullible, but for the first time I realised that Sam has never acknowledged that she might have a 'darkside'. That aspect of her personality came out in Replicarter, and one reason that Sam just didn't see it was that she was being blind to it. She didn't want to recognise that in herself, therefore she wasn't about to recognise it in Replicarter.
    there have been times when sam has hinted at a darkside..of how far she could go when pushed. i'm thinking of the way she killed seth, and the time she almost shot hammond when she left o'neill back on the planet and he refused to let her go back for me. she does have a darkness, like anyone, but liek you say, she always refused to acknowledge it. now, she not only has to acknowledge it, but accept that it is partly responsible for making Replicarter who she is.

    What would Sam be like if there wasn't that framework around her? Would she be more arrogant, less capable of compassion, and more ambitious in terms of power? Would she have been far more likely to have used her incredible intelligence for her own personal gain?

    These are all incredibly uncomfortable questions that Sam must be asking herself now, and I'm glad. It was about time she got taken outside her comfort zone!

    More reckless and careless certainly...like in Space Race. Maybe not less compassionate..sam did have the love of her family, and whereas RC remembers that, her only real family has been fifth..not exactly a good role model. IN AU's where sam hasn't been in the military, she's still been good and kind (and a bit wet, actually, i much prefer military sam, shooting the big guns and beating up the bad guys with both hands tied behind her back). but i think she could be a lot more manipulative, and a lot more capable of bending or breaking rules to get her own way...like blackmailing wier in New Order.

    but she can't hide her darkside and pretend she's all sweetness and light forever. (and i think pete is part of that..marrrying a man who's never seen her kill anyone, or even really seen her in uniform, and seems unaware of her vast intelligence..part of her trying to prove to herself that she's a normal woman), and i think seeing Replicarter will show her her darkside, and she'll have ti decide whether to face it and use it, or hide it even more

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    now that RC can counter the ancient weapon (the msot advanced peice of tech out ther), any idea how we can beat the replicators now?

    They have been playing this arc since season 4 and i like how they have evolved it, though i am a little torn b/c on the one hand it was nice to see it finally end using ancient tech and have the asgard rebuild so they can play bigger role but on the other hand, after thinking about it, this gives this whole arc a new twist.
    especially since (spoliers, highlight to read): the replicators start fighint the gouald in reckoning. but it begs the question, how can we really defeat them. IMO, i think they need to end this arc in season 9 (its been going on for a long time) with some big battles..cool space ones, some land ones..in a big 2 parter...that would do it justice...just like reckoning 2 parter does the baal arc justice (hopefully)

  9. #69
    First Lieutenant tara3583's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I think imho that we all have a darkside to us but that is balanced by what we feel is right.
    Replicarter has no qalms about using this to get to Sam thus causing Sam to (i hope) to reflet on having this painfully shoved in front
    of her.

    Watching rep/carter at the end and how femine and cold she was really made me sit up and think what a great "badie" she will make and just how much torment she will bring to Sam and in turn through Sam to the rest of the SGC and especialy Jack.

    Once again i take my hat off to Amanda for such a great job and whoever wrote it in the first place, bravo!! nicely done
    ......TARA......

  10. #70
    Chief Master Sergeant Ancients Rising's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Replicarter's brethren are immune to the disruptor...so we won't be seeing the Asgard in Pegasus for a while then....

    They'll have to come up with another weapon using the Ancients knowledge, suppose they will.

    I was wondering why Replicarter didn't destroy the whole Alpha site before she left?

    As has been said by many already, great acting by AT in this ep.
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  11. #71
    Lieutenant Colonel Dani347's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Imzadi
    Like many I had a bit of a hard time with Sam trusting RC so easily
    It seems very simple to me. Child's play, even. Infant, for that matter. Class, pop quiz. Who do you NEVER give access to the only weapon that can control a replicator to? A. Ronald McDonald B. you're dentist C. a replicator. Complete failure if you get it wrong. Did you have a hand raised, Betty Boo? No, it doesn't matter if the replicator looks like you. Johnny Joe? Yes, the replicator might be lying. There's a very good chance. Okay, good luck with the quiz, although if you get this answer wrong, you'll need more than luck to help you.

    On a shipper sidenote: I thought the scene in the control room at the beginning was very sweet ("if only"), and I liked that RC hesitated when faced with killing Jack (poor old Daniel doesn't get a break even in dream sequences!).
    And, this, among other things (which would be off topic here) is why I hate ship. Fifth was using Sam's feelings and memories when he made RC, so I guess I have to accept the fact that when push comes to shove, she doesn't give a **** about Daniel (and I'm sure if Teal'c had been in the dream, he would have gotten blasted away too without a second thought) but it's so hard for her to shoot Sir, the guy she wants to boink. Oh, wait. It's because she loves him. (imagine sarcasm. Multiply by 3000) I didn't know "loving" one person means that the only person you show any sign of caring to is them. I had no idea that "love" limited a person to such a narrow vision. And, saying it was only a dream, or only the RC and doesn't really have anything to do with how Sam feels about people who've stood by her side for 8 freaking years doesn't cut it. In that case, it's just as easily said that it's not a true telling of her "feelings" for Jack. If I have to believe one, I have to believe the other. And, this is supposed to be romantic? Pass out the cheap champagne and arsenic laced Valentine's candy!
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  12. #72
    Sam’s Uneven Parallel Bars
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by keppiezbt
    now that RC can counter the ancient weapon (the msot advanced peice of tech out ther), any idea how we can beat the replicators now?

    They have been playing this arc since season 4 and i like how they have evolved it, though i am a little torn b/c on the one hand it was nice to see it finally end using ancient tech and have the asgard rebuild so they can play bigger role but on the other hand, after thinking about it, this gives this whole arc a new twist.
    especially since (spoliers, highlight to read): the replicators start fighint the gouald in reckoning. but it begs the question, how can we really defeat them. IMO, i think they need to end this arc in season 9 (its been going on for a long time) with some big battles..cool space ones, some land ones..in a big 2 parter...that would do it justice...just like reckoning 2 parter does the baal arc justice (hopefully)

    a) Well from what I got out of it, the Ancient weapon could still be viable. When Jack originally constructed it, it could have been designed to operate at whatever frequency with a bandwidth spread the replicators communicate at and overload the communication between the blocks. Replicarter may have just change the Replicators communication frequency so it may only be a temporary immunity to the Ancient weapon until Sam can study Replicarters' blocks.

    b) The universe is screwed.... screwed... screwed. The Replicators are small, can create new blocks out of virtually anything, and can adapt to any technology. They don't suffer from the politics that organic races do and as so, don't have to worry about overpopulation. And the only weapon that was capable of placing population control on the Replicators is now ineffective against them.

  13. #73
    Chief Master Sergeant Chlex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani347
    Pass out the cheap champagne and arsenic laced Valentine's candy!
    Oi, um... well I'm a shipper, but in some twisted way I agree with you.

    I never really thought that S/J's 'feelings' would ever get in the way of what needed to be done, but this is a classic example of how things went wrong. RC knew that Jack would trust Carter. Even though he took the back door and asked Teal'c about her, in what I assume was an attempt to spare her feelings, he let her have her way. He should have just asked her right there if she was getting too involved... but he didn't. I guess it's because for the last 8 seasons Sam's always been right about these things.

    The whole part where RC was shooting up the gateroom was just Fifth's screwed up little test, right? I don't think she felt indifferent when she shot Daniel, but I figured it was more of a reflex 'shoot first' kinda thing. When she turned to see Jack he knew she was going to kill him and maybe that's what brought about the angsty moment. Then again it might have had something to do with Sam's feelings for Jack and she just... couldn't... do it. Up until Fifth came around that is. Again, that's from my perspective, and I like to read into things... so if Jack so much as sneezed in Sam's direction I'd take it as a proposal.

    Anyway, ship was definitely not the most important thing in this eppy. Amanda Tapping did such an amazing job! She honestly made me feel terrible about the crap Fifth was putting RC through... then all of a sudden she was the Replicator who wanted to take over the universe. The whole thing was seamless, very well put together. Sam trusted RC, and everyone else trusted Sam. It makes sense how everything went bad so quickly. But did Sam honestly think Jack would let her bring a Replicator back to the SGC? I'm just glad Teal'c was around.

    The whole 'mistake' thing was neccessary though. If the Replicators could be destroyed so easily then they'd be pretty pathetic. Now of course, they're the most eeevil creatures in the universe! Gotta love this idea.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Gemini (811) spoilers for reckoning also

    The "little bald guy" was on NCIS yesterday.

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  15. #75
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I personally thought it was very predictable and though AT did well at acting, carter herself was very stupid, i was hoping for O'neilo to shove that disrupter straight through her as soon as she walked through the gate. They are now very screwed unless Jackson or the asgard find some tech or a way around it.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    it was really good, some nice development on evil carter, and some nice development on carter, and i can imagine it becomin a nice episode later on!

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  17. #77
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    My thoughts before reading yours:

    Excellent ep.

    It was the kind of ep that kept me trying to work out what was going on(and always glad to be wrong, wrong, wrong! ),what ace tactic Jack was hiding up his sleeve(I was sure he and Thor had arranged to have an uncompromised replicater satilite gun (cloaked, of course) as backup. I expected a Kawalski move when RepSam was in the event horizon, but they did something way cooler. kudos!

    And the shippers rejoiced.... You guys must be in Nirvana with this ep. As a neutral observer I thought the ship was well done and tasteful.

    I loved the tiny insights into Sam's past, and the burden she carries with her, from Unnatural Selection through to New Order and now with Gemini and whatever ep(s?) is/are sure to continue this arc.

    I wonder what MS was doing to preclude him from this ep? I'm sure I get an eyeful about this when I read all the posts, so, off I go....
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  18. #78
    Colonel the dancer of spaz's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani347
    ... Fifth was using Sam's feelings and memories when he made RC, so I guess I have to accept the fact that when push comes to shove, she doesn't give a **** about Daniel (and I'm sure if Teal'c had been in the dream, he would have gotten blasted away too without a second thought)...
    I understand your frustration. Based on what I've been reading, it does seem like she was a little too quick to shoot Daniel, and, though I'm a shipper, I'd like to think that RepliCarter would have some strong residual feelings for Daniel and Teal'c that would keep her from annihilating them... To be honest, I think the writers made that so incredibly pronounced to suggest ship to those who are unfamiliar with the ship arc (yes, it's a story arc, and no one can tell me any different - sorry ), but that's just me.

    In the world of SG-1, as a team, as a group of friends, and as a family, I would also like to think that Sam would treat all three of the guys equally...
    *Shrugs*

    RepliCarter, on the other hand, while evil, may have a harder time reconciling strong brotherly feelings of love and the other... kind...

    Does that make sense?

    Probably not.

  19. #79
    Lieutenant Colonel Dani347's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlex
    Then again it might have had something to do with Sam's feelings for Jack and she just... couldn't... do it.
    Repeat my earlier rant.
    Anyway, ship was definitely not the most important thing in this eppy. Amanda Tapping did such an amazing job!
    You can't imagine exactly to what degree I hate the ship. Even as a blink and you'll miss it, it's too much for me. Unless I just happened to blink! But, I'm not saying that has any bearing on AT's acting.

    The whole 'mistake' thing was neccessary though. If the Replicators could be destroyed so easily then they'd be pretty pathetic. Now of course, they're the most eeevil creatures in the universe! Gotta love this idea.
    Couldn't they have found a better way to do it? One that didn't compromise the intelligence of Sam?

    To be honest, I think the writers made that so incredibly pronounced to suggest ship to those who are unfamiliar with the ship arc
    If that's the case, then a little word of advice to them. Please, please, please, never try your hands at romantic comedy or romantic drama. A dark parody of a romance? Maybe. A tragic tale of how selfish desire disguised as love could destroy people? Be my guest. It could make a great story. But, I just don't think straight romance is their forte.
    Last edited by Dani347; December 15th, 2004 at 10:08 AM.
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  20. #80
    First Lieutenant veneticuss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Well, a good ep where TPTB put replicators back in game. SO maybe no more Human vs. Goauld but live beings agaist machines in S9??
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