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Thread: Gemini (811)

  1. #41
    Staff Sergeant Gategrrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani347
    One scene is too many for me. Especially, if (if I read it right) Sam was so incredibly gullible to an enemy because said enemy used her supposed feelings for Jack. Gag.

    Letting a relicator of any sort, even one that looks like Carter, near the ONLY weapon that can destroy them, is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of!

    Forget about "shippy" scenes. This just makes Carter and Jack and Teal'c look like morons. I'm *glad* Daniel is off on the Prometheus (with Claudia Black!) and didn't have a part in the general idiocy.

    Thank heavens there are nine other episodes coming down the pike.

  2. #42
    Staff Sergeant JackDaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Gemini (811) spoilers for reckoning also

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple

    What a GREAT early Christmas presents from TPTB, will SKy one be airing the next new episode of SG1 next Tuesday or will it be after the Holidays?

    Purple
    I've just checked the Sky One Website and they will be showing Prometheus Unbound and The Eye next week. I thought they may have taken them off for their christmas scheduling but yey they are still there!!!

    Looking forward to a Daniel filled eppy next week then, and a happy return for Hammond (missed the little bald guy!)

  3. #43
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    1. OK, I guess it's a fair enough question - how easily would an alternate version of yourself with all your memories and self-knowledge but with different/no moral values be able to outsmart you into thinking they were on your side?

    I'd like to think I wouldn't get suckered but who knows! Like Sam, if I did get suckered then I'd feel like an idiot!(bear in mind that Jack at least was never really fooled in the first place)

    2. Smooth work from AT on Replicarter.

    3. And talking of the new girl on the block, she's just evolved the human Replicator's coolness. She sounds like she'll be an interesting challenge.

  4. #44
    Second Lieutenant po134's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I have a question, of wich ship were thay talking about at this episode, holy beginning ?

    Sorry, but I didn't catch the whole conversation ... they said new hyper-driver engin ? From the asgard ! Will it be on the prometheus ? or in a new ship ?
    If we do now have a new hyperdriver engine, does it mean we have a new power generator ?
    Do we have an asgard satellite network on earth ?

    I've so many question

  5. #45

    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I tried to enjoy this episode but the stupidity everywhere was making it hard.
    I woulda thought getting the asgard to confirm that the disruptor was useless would have been a good start

  6. #46
    Colonel the dancer of spaz's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Gemini (811)

    No transcripts? Heh heh...

    So, I must say, it's interesting to see the culmination of ideas and feelings towards this ep. As always, both sides of the spectrum prove to be quite passionate about their feelings , which is always an interesting thing to interpret.

    Anywho, just for clarification purposes: Does Sam not think twice about giving RepliCarter all of the crap she needs, or does she at least LOOK weary about trusting RepliCarter. Nothing could change my mind about this ep being really, really cool or anything - I was just curious. For those who loved the ep, and for those who dis-loved (hated seems a bit strong ), what did you think?

  7. #47
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I watched it again when Mr W got home, and I still don't get how Carter was such a fool. A creature with all her memories and made by an evil genius, and she trusts it because... um... it asks her to? It's a Replicator. Carter knows how dangerous they can be. And, just on the offchance that it might not be lying, she lets it have full access to the only weapon that could defeat it? Ack.

    I've liked Carter masses in s8, she hasn't been the moony drip she was in s7, but in this ep she was as dim as dim could be, and I just don't understand why. If there's one thing I can normally trust TPTB to do it's to write Sam as not an idiot.

    AT acted Carter really well. I totally got how much Carter *wanted* to trust it, and that does mitigate the idiocy a little. I was less impressed with how she acted the replicator; I felt like I was watching AT acting rather than watching the replicator.

    Fifth was as good as ever. :: sniff :: Fifth, I'll miss you.

    Dani, don't worry, I noticed no ship and although I'm not as sensitive to it as you (I think) I didn't see any the second time either. And I can think of one scene that better suggests S/T than S/J. You might be safe

    But there's too much technobabble. Way too much. And not enough suspense even the first time. The only twist was Fifth getting offed ::sniff :: and this was a story that needed a twist or two.

    And did I mention that Carter was an idiot?

    Madeleine

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    So did anybody think that Carter was an idiot? Anybody? So nobody huh?

  9. #49
    First Lieutenant tara3583's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    This was really good and Amanda did a great job
    with replicarter, i went along with the feelings of wow i'm really feeling sorry for the replicator to oh god she really is "BAD"

    I'm so glad replicarter is still out there as i
    think Sam will have some issues to sort out with her, interesting side note that rep/carter
    said about Sam having power hungery thoughts, i
    guess that would be the darkside of feelings she has but knows right from wrong and i would love to see Sam talk about that in S9 because that must have been a big deal for her to have heard.

    As a shipper i found lots of little things to keep me happy and the scene where rep/carter had to shoot Jack was imho very telling that those feelings for Jack are still there
    Bit taken aback by how easy Daniel and Teal'c were shoot with out much thought!

    All in all a fantastic episode with much fallout to deal with from Sam and a really fantastic job done by Amanda (she does bad really good!)
    ......TARA......

  10. #50
    Colonel the dancer of spaz's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by tara3583
    ... All in all a fantastic episode with much fallout to deal with from Sam and a really fantastic job done by Amanda (she does bad really good!)
    Haha! Good stuff, Tara.

    Well, I trust you guys.

    Funny, Shipperahoy, by the way. I got a good chuckle out of that post.

    I guess Carter had an "idiot moment" or a moment of weakness or... bad judgement. Or something. Uh oh. Looks like someone may have to find a pitchfork and some LARGE stones...

    I haven't seen the ep yet (as you all probably know by now - I'm the annoying one who keeps asking for transcripts ).

    But, I must say, I find it kind of... odd... that so many people commented about the lack of Daniel. Was it that overwhelmingly obvious? I like seeing all four of the characters in one ep, but I'm a bit surprised that it was THAT big of a deal... I HOPE it wasn't that big of a deal.

    Hmmm... I'm sure Prometheus Unbound will have absolutely NO Daniel in it... None at all...

    Oh well, sorry... I'm probably mildly bitter about my own lack of... Gate. Until January, I guess.


    PS - anyone got any transcripts

  11. #51
    Second Lieutenant Buzz Lightyear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Watters87
    I thought this was a great episode. Easily the best episode this season. As some have said AT did a great job of separating Sam with Replicarter.
    I thought this was a terrible episode - and my opinion has nothing to do with the acting.

    The main problem I have with this episode is that it IS a great episode, except for one crucial element.

    Ok, the good:
    • All-around solid acting, especially Amanda Tapping in her dual-role.
    • The double-cross of Fifth by replicator Sam.
    • The replicators found a way to counter-act the super-disruptor.
    • Some action away from the SGC for a change for this season! And it's on the alpha site (which no doubt helps save some money on remote location costs).
    • Did I mention the good acting?

    The not-so-good:
    • Was Daniel even in this episode for more than 5 seconds? Even less than Jack's screen time.
    • Fifth was disposed of a little too quickly and easily for my liking.

    The terrible:
    • Awful, awful plot-line with super-gullible Carter. How does one trust a replicator just because they look like you? Shouldn't one of Earth's pre-eminent astrophysicists and experts on alien weaponry know that the quickest way to develop a counter to an unfamiliar weapon is to study its underlying technology? Except I don't recall any of Earth's enemies freely providing schematics to their weaponry. Even allies are reluctant to share such information.
    • While I might almost be convinced that Carter could be manipulated into suddenly becoming a dumb blond, I was certain Jack would never be so trusting. I kept expecting O'Neill and Teal'c to spring some backup plan that might save the day or at least salvage it from total disaster. However, other than a few dialogue teases, this never happened.
    • For some reason, the Asgard also didn't protest how bad an idea it was to show the disruptor technology to ANY replicator, considering that they're much more at risk from the replicators than low-tech Earth is.

    Despite all the good points, my ability to enjoy "Gemini" was completely undermined by Stupid Carter Syndrome (SCS). And that's a shame, since this episode obviously holds serious ramifications for future storylines and can't be passed off as insignificant filler fluff.
    To Infinity And Beyond!

    O'Neill: "Do we know this... shrub?"

  12. #52

    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    yerp buzz lightyear summed it up just as i would have if i could have been bothered

  13. #53
    Second Lieutenant Buzz Lightyear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by Azrial
    yerp buzz lightyear summed it up just as i would have if i could have been bothered
    ROFL!
    To Infinity And Beyond!

    O'Neill: "Do we know this... shrub?"

  14. #54
    Lieutenant Colonel Anubis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I watched this episode again (from what I recorded on Sky+) and I don't understand why Carter fell for Replicarter so easily. I already knew that it wouldn't have been as easy as it was, making Replicarter a even bigger enemy than Fifth was. He was quite gullable, which I did not expect him to be. From the start, Replicarter had me convinced.


    Did Daniel actually appear in this episode after the first Prometheus scene? I don't recall it happening. Probably due to the filming of the episode we get next week.


    Good show though .. best of S8 this far.

  15. #55
    Colonel the dancer of spaz's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Gemini (811)

    So... The general consensus is that Carter went completely out of character, and was duped by... herself, right? Pretty much everyone agrees that what Sam did was rather foolish, right? As much as I am absolutely loathe to admit it, it seems like a perfectly good ep was a bit ruined by a poor plot device (i.e. Sam). While said poor plot device proved to be distracting, it doesn't seem to have detracted from the great acting and cool plot twists.

    I mean, think about it: They have all of this juicy, evil RepliCarter stuff to show, and all of these cool special effects, drama, and action, but the only way they can get to the good stuff, is to have RepliCarter exposed to the technology.

    How do we do this?

    Well, Daniel's on the Prometheus, Jack is characteristically distrustful, and Teal'c is one trigger-happy mofo. Who does that leave? The one person who can identify with RepliCarter. IMO, if Daniel had been there, he probably wouldn't have been much different than Sam. He would have been another voice of reason, but he wouldn't have been as gung ho as apparently Teal'c and Jack were.

    I really don't think this is along Carter's character, however she and Daniel and Jonas always have been a lot more sympathetic to the situation, while Jack and Teal'c have always been ready to shoot up the place. I'm not excusing what they did in this ep (again, I didn't see it), but it makes sense in my opinion. Still, just because something is logical, it's not necessarily right or... ethical...

    Having Sam become manipulated by her counterpart was a result of either a) absolutely NO other way of having RepliCarter gain control and access, or b) lazy writing - or maybe even a bit of both. And I'm not typically one to accuse the writers of this show of being lazy. I don't feel comfortable with making those sorts of accusations. It just seems to be a trend, you know?

    There have been too many instances where we've read, heard, or seen something that just is NOT consistent with Carter's character. Personally, I'm fine with what she's been doing (the end of Affinity aside, of course), and I'll probably absolutely love Gemini, however I disagree with the way the writers have been handling the character, as well as how they've dealt with AT's misgivings towards Sam. Just because I dig the direction the character is taking doesn't mean others do, and I really do respect and appreciate that. *shrugs*

    Whatever. I've trusted them in the past, and I will continue to trust them in the future. I just hope they know what potential detriment their doing to the reputation of a really cool and integral character.
    Last edited by the dancer of spaz; December 15th, 2004 at 12:34 AM. Reason: I am an idiot...

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Well, I liked it. Big thumbsup from this viewer. I knew that RepliCarter was playing both sides of the field - let's face it if she turned out good where's the fun in that? But the scenes at the end where she went stalking through the Alpha Site on her way to the Stargate, taking out everyone in her path, were very cool. AT did a really good job with the differences between them, I think. They were subtle but definitely there. And the final conversation between them was beautifully done with excellent dialogue and a real sparkle of malice in RepliCarter's eyes.

    What did I love? Well, Jack's 'If only' of course and his sheepish little cough when Carter responded to that remark. LOL. Carter and Teal'c working together - which I really just adore and hope to see much more of in future episodes. Even though Teal'c didn't really have that much to do except point a gun and look mean. But his repeated concern for Carter was nice to see.

    Really enjoyed the memory scene that RepliCarter shared with Sam - very well done. Did kind of chuckle at Daniel turning up in the episode again just long enough to be taken out by 'Carter'. <g> I agree, btw, with the previous poster in their explanation of RepliCarter using Sam's feelings for Jack to elict empathy. Also, don't forget that at one point in the episode RepliCarter tells Sam, "It's more than sharing a memory. You know what he did to me because he did it to you, didn't he?" (paraphrasing from memory, but that was the gist. So it doesn't seem out of character to me that Carter felt more sympathy for RepliCarter than Jack or Teal'c. It was partly bound up in her own memories of being tortured by Fifth. That kind of thing has to leave a permanent emotional scar. Too, we were told at several points in the episode that RepliCarter 'understood' Sam, 'knew' Sam, had her thoughts and feelings and memories going right back to childhood, before Sam met Fifth. And that she therefore had a unique perspective on who Sam was and how she would react/respond to any event. If you know someone that well, it's not difficult to manipulate them.

    Also loved the scene with Teal'c trying to drag RepliCarter back out of the wormhole and that arm. LOL. His face when it came away from her body was priceless. And that moment when she suddenly popped back out to glare at him was kind of spooky.

    Really liked the end scene, too. Loved the expression on Jack's face when he started to reassure Carter that it wasn't her fault and she interrupted him, clearly not in the mood to give up blaming herself. It was a nice team scene - but I did wish it had included Daniel. It was at that point especially that I missed him in this one.

    Little quibbles which distracted me? Carter being dumb enough to walk into the line of fire between the soldier with the gun and RepliCarter twice while she was talking to someone. Carter should know better - big military no no to get between the gun and the person it's being aimed at really. I know that throughout she was less than enthused about the gun being pointed at RepliCarter anyway and obviously wasn't thinking of her as a potential threat, but still, it slightly bugged me.

    And the Mystery of the Vanishing Archaelogist. Which was very puzzling and distracted me all the way through trying to figure it out. The walk and talk with Daniel and Sam right at the start of the episode was pretty pointless. It seemed to have little reason to be there. Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy just watching them, because I did. Daniel was especially cute. <g>. But the perfect reason for it to be there would seem to be to casually drop in an explanation of why Daniel walked into the elevator on base and then disappeared for an entire episode. But I didn't hear that in the conversation. Far as I know there was zip on that. (I might find I'm wrong and missed it on further viewings, but can't see how). So that it wasn't mentioned was rather strange. Apparently, you can't hear "unscheduled offworld activation" in the base elevators. Bit of an oversight those military bods might want to look into.

    Was also kind of surprised to hear Daniel say "It's Atlantis. It's what we've been working for for seven and a half years." (paraphrasing from memory there). Didn't think they'd even known Atlantis was out there for that long, let alone been looking for it.

    Jack seemed a little superfluous - once again his dialogue just wasn't sharp enough to be either greatly amusing or add much in the way of dramatic tension

    Think that was it. And those are minor quibbles. None of that was enough to really distract me from thoroughly enjoying a really good episode. And one that I'll watch again (in fact am looking forward to watching again later today)

    BTW - did anyone else wonder why Teal'c was wearing that knowing, smug smile in the teaser, when they were watching the monitor and trying to figure out what was going on? I could see that expression coming on after that little interaction between Jack and Sam (when Jack leaned too close while trying to see the screen better). But it seemed strange being there before that moment. What was Teal'c finding so amusing at that point? It seemed like an editing mistake to me - dropping in the clip of Teal'c's smile too early. It just looked...odd.

    But, I must say, I find it kind of... odd... that so many people commented about the lack of Daniel. Was it that overwhelmingly obvious?
    Well, let's see. He walked into an elevator on base in the teaser and was never seen again. <g> Apart from a brief two seconds in the scene where RepliCarter showed Sam a memory of Fifth making her take part in a 'holodeck' scenario where she took out the gateroom. Poor Siler got to do his Dying Swan act again, too. <g> But, still, as others have said - we'll get lots of him next week. If he ever gets out of that elevator he was apparently stuck in all week... You know, I'm half expecting him to turn up next week going, "Hey, guys, didn't you hear me banging on that elevator door all week, trying to get out?"

    I really think it was more the fact that - unless I really missed something obvious - there was no explanation given for his absence that bugged me. If there'd just been a line or two I'd have forgotten it at the teaser, instead of spending the entire episode trying to figure out where he'd gone and why he wasn't apparently at all interested in an offworld activation or a RepliCarter turning up...

    And was I imagining things? I could have sworn that last week, several SG sites had a photo of Sam and Daniel sitting at a conference table attached to the promo photos of this episode. It was captioned, "Carter and Daniel discuss the upcoming Prometheus mission" or some such. Now it's vanished. So I was either imagining it or it's been taken out because it's been realised it wasn't actually in the episode. I'm wondering if maybe this was the scene where Daniel's absence was alluded to and it was cut out of the episode? But that's just total speculation. Especially if I'm making it up and there was no photo. <G>

    Albion
    Last edited by Albion; December 15th, 2004 at 01:48 AM.
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

  17. #57
    Probie nalex1013's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    The good:

    1) RepliCarter hesitating about shooting jack

    2) Bad Replicator at end

    3) RepliCarter screwing over fifth after he totured poor Sam at start of season

    4) She didn't even stop before shooting daniel (that was just amusing- poor dannie)

    5) The "If only" line from jack

    The Bad:
    1) They just seemed to be holding back on the S/J thing ever so slightly

    2) Replicators coming to our galaxie


    I don't blame Sam for trusting her. She wouldn't expect herselt to be bad and she felt sorry for her being held prisoner by fifth and probably tortured like her

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Words cannot describe how much I loved this episode

    Amanda Tapping was perfect as the naive, trusting Sam and evil, malicious RC. Like many I had a bit of a hard time with Sam trusting RC so easily, but RC sounded so convincing that even I would have believed her! I was a bit dissapointed that I could guess what was going to happen in the end, but it didn't hinder my enjoyment because I was just so engrossed by AT. I was also impressed by RDA's 'I just got shot' reaction (i've watch that bit several times and I still flinch).

    For me, the best element of the whole episode was Replicarter's dialoge which I felt suited the character perfectly, especially when Sam and RC are talking inside RC's head.

    On a shipper sidenote: I thought the scene in the control room at the beginning was very sweet ("if only"), and I liked that RC hesitated when faced with killing Jack (poor old Daniel doesn't get a break even in dream sequences!).

  19. #59
    First Lieutenant tara3583's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    I don't blame Sam for trusting her. She wouldn't expect herselt to be bad and she felt sorry for her being held prisoner by fifth and probably tortured like her[/QUOTE]

    That is what i thought and had no problem with how Sam delt with her but i do want to see how Sam will deal with the fall out from this, also
    i think it's humanised Sam in my eyes that she
    can be failable and make mistakes.
    ......TARA......

  20. #60
    Second Lieutenant Kazan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gemini (811)

    Quote Originally Posted by tara3583
    I don't blame Sam for trusting her. She wouldn't expect herselt to be bad and she felt sorry for her being held prisoner by fifth and probably tortured like her

    That is what i thought and had no problem with how Sam delt with her but i do want to see how Sam will deal with the fall out from this, also
    i think it's humanised Sam in my eyes that she
    can be failable and make mistakes.

    I Agree.
    Wasn't it the whole point that Sam has human traits, feelings, emotions etc and that includes the inbuilt desire to want to see the best in someone and to trust them? With Sam especially, the character has this genuine honesty and positivity so to be confronted with a "copy" of herself wasn't it just in character for Sam to want to believe and trust RC.
    (Honestly, I bet there isn't one person out there in R/L that hasn't put their faith / trust in someone and been let down at some point?!)

    At the end, I just think the point was to draw out very clearly that there was the massive difference between the human traits of Sams character and the emotionally and ethically devoid traits of RC.

    It'll be very interesting to see what effect this has on Sam going forward and how she deals with the fallout.

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