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  1. #41
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Im still stuck on the wraith tech stuff. Its just not adding up for me..

    I mean how could they beat the ancients but not have hyperdrives capable of galaxy to galaxy travel... It makes NO sense at all...

    The wraith are really starting to remind me of the ultimate parasites. Goauld part II basically.

    It looks like they leeched just enough technology from the ancients to become a threat and then simply sat back and fed for thousands of years. They dont appear to have any desire / need to attempt to advance. They dont even seem to have the curiousity to find out where the ancients went even though they knew exactly where atlantis is....

    For an "advanced" race they are surprisingly .... dull witted - I have an enemy I know where he lives, one day his house moves and he no longer attacks me to protect his family.. Do you A) keep killing the family and ignore the fact your real enemy disappeared B) seek out the real enemy and deal with the family later....

    First rule of warfare - know your enemy.....

  2. #42
    Lieutenant Colonel MartoufMarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    The Wraith didn't overpower the Ancients with fancy weapons and such, they just... the Ancients were outnumbered.

  3. #43
    Chief Master Sergeant Alpha17X's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    The Wraith massively out numbered the ancients on a grand scale. IT really doesn't matter how powerful you are , bar ascension, if you have hundreds of ships firing everything they have at you and then going kamakazi into you, then you're going to get your butt kicked. The ancients technology was more than a match for wraith tech it's just that there were a LOT of wraith.

    I can't put enough emphasis on "a lot of wraith" there were a lot.



    Quote Originally Posted by TOA
    Im still stuck on the wraith tech stuff. Its just not adding up for me..

    I mean how could they beat the ancients but not have hyperdrives capable of galaxy to galaxy travel... It makes NO sense at all...

    The wraith are really starting to remind me of the ultimate parasites. Goauld part II basically.

    It looks like they leeched just enough technology from the ancients to become a threat and then simply sat back and fed for thousands of years. They dont appear to have any desire / need to attempt to advance. They dont even seem to have the curiousity to find out where the ancients went even though they knew exactly where atlantis is....

    For an "advanced" race they are surprisingly .... dull witted - I have an enemy I know where he lives, one day his house moves and he no longer attacks me to protect his family.. Do you A) keep killing the family and ignore the fact your real enemy disappeared B) seek out the real enemy and deal with the family later....

    First rule of warfare - know your enemy.....

  4. #44
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by MartoufMarty
    The Wraith didn't overpower the Ancients with fancy weapons and such, they just... the Ancients were outnumbered.

    Its the math that doesnt add up though - speculation earlier in the season indicates that there are like 60-100 hives...

    Now putting into account what we now know -
    - wraith hyperdrives arent very good (roughly level with current human/earth hyperdrives - short burst basically)
    - Wraith weapons are not that powerful - it took two hives to destroy that satellite and it wasnt a one shot kill

    If there was a defense grid around the atlantis solar system - lets say 10 satellites. Knowing that the satellite shold have been able to destroy 3 hives no problem (aside from the whole short circuit thing that happened) that means that 30+ hives could have been wiped out by the satellites alone.

    Either there are ALOT more wraith than we know of (unlikely) or the ancients killed/wiped out 50+% of the wraith forces and they still havent recovered.

    The other comment is that if their hyperdrives arent that good how the hell could they possibly mass at one solar system - they could not possibly have built all those hives on one planet so just distance alone would indicate this is nt possible.

  5. #45
    Chief Master Sergeant Alpha17X's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by TOA
    Its the math that doesnt add up though - speculation earlier in the season indicates that there are like 60-100 hives...

    Now putting into account what we now know -
    - wraith hyperdrives arent very good (roughly level with current human/earth hyperdrives - short burst basically)
    - Wraith weapons are not that powerful - it took two hives to destroy that satellite and it wasnt a one shot kill

    If there was a defense grid around the atlantis solar system - lets say 10 satellites. Knowing that the satellite shold have been able to destroy 3 hives no problem (aside from the whole short circuit thing that happened) that means that 30+ hives could have been wiped out by the satellites alone.

    Either there are ALOT more wraith than we know of (unlikely) or the ancients killed/wiped out 50+% of the wraith forces and they still havent recovered.

    The other comment is that if their hyperdrives arent that good how the hell could they possibly mass at one solar system - they could not possibly have built all those hives on one planet so just distance alone would indicate this is nt possible.
    Your last part there makes the most sense. The Ancients lost, but I'm sure they were able to inflict damage on a grand scale to the wraith. The wraith just won by numbers in the end.

    Have you ever played starcraft? The Ancients got zergling rushed.

  6. #46
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha17X
    The Wraith massively out numbered the ancients on a grand scale. IT really doesn't matter how powerful you are , bar ascension, if you have hundreds of ships firing everything they have at you and then going kamakazi into you, then you're going to get your butt kicked. The ancients technology was more than a match for wraith tech it's just that there were a LOT of wraith.

    I can't put enough emphasis on "a lot of wraith" there were a lot.

    Now the question of the day:

    Is it:
    "There WERE alot of Wraith"

    or

    "There ARE alot of Wraith"

    Thats the key - im basically thinking that the wraith are like the Asgard - they dont really reproduce (because in the case of the wraith they effectively do not die of aging so there would be little to no need), so the massive wipeouts caused when fighting the Ancients were never really recovered.

  7. #47
    Lieutenant Colonel MartoufMarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    ....

    Shh... It's a TV show. It's not supposed to make sense

    Well, I think there are more Wraith then they're showing. A helluva alot more. A crap load of Wraith.

    What if the few ships that are showing up now are just... the first wave attack? Others follow not far behind.

    I mean, in the season 1 finale of SG-1 Apophis showed up with two ships. Was that all he had? No. He could have showed up with more...

    Am I making any sense?

    I think I should shut up for tonight.

    *falls asleep*

  8. #48
    Lieutenant Colonel MartoufMarty's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by TOA
    Now the question of the day:

    Is it:
    "There WERE alot of Wraith"

    or

    "There ARE alot of Wraith"

    Thats the key - im basically thinking that the wraith are like the Asgard - they dont really reproduce (because in the case of the wraith they effectively do not die of aging so there would be little to no need), so the massive wipeouts caused when fighting the Ancients were never really recovered.
    I'm going for ARE and WERE...

    There ARE alot of Wraith out there right now. MANY WRAITH!

    But there WERE even more before.

    So that's... yes.

  9. #49
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha17X
    Your last part there makes the most sense. The Ancients lost, but I'm sure they were able to inflict damage on a grand scale to the wraith. The wraith just won by numbers in the end.

    Have you ever played starcraft? The Ancients got zergling rushed.
    Lol maybe - but it still doesnt add up - if Ancients had greater technology guerilla warfare would work well in this case, because only in large groups could the wraith over power ancient ships.

    Im hoping that my next theory isnt correct - The only real way I could see the wraith kicking the ancients if they used something akin to hit and run attacks of the separated hives is if they were (stupid enough) to mass the majority of their fleet when going to meet the wraith for "peace" talks.. Overwhelming force would wipe out the ancients armada in one swipe at that point.

  10. #50
    First Lieutenant alaskannut's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    I am with Marty on this one...its very likely that there are many more Hives than we currently know about and that there used to be A LOT more before their war with the ancients--its only been ten thousand yrs since the ancients fled and the wraith most likely have simply not been awake long enough to recover from their personnel/matierial losses.

    Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.
    "We're not going to Guam are we?"

  11. #51
    First Lieutenant alaskannut's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Now would someone PLEASE post a decent summary of the ep...not just a series of main points????

    Eagles may soar free and proud, but weasels never get sucked into jet engines.
    "We're not going to Guam are we?"

  12. #52

    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    One would imagine that during the Ancient's heydey and their first encounter with the wraith there were billions and billions of humans for the wraith to feed upon--so they could've had huuuuuuuge numbers. We also know how powerful the Ancients were, so they'd have to be horrifically outnumbered. I figure that once the wraith conquered Pegasus and drove the Ancients out--their population was decimated, but so was the human population, and they had no choice but to hibernate for a few thousand years to get the human population up. Even so, there were fewer humans around than before, so they must've suffered another big dieoff from starvation--that's one of the Wraith's achille's heels . . . they may be hard to kill, but they will die without enough food.

    And now that the Earthlings have woken them up prematurely, there's not enough food to go around, so they're in a pretty big bind. The wraith *must* get to the Milky Way, or they'll suffer another dieoff.

    -Nick

  13. #53
    First Lieutenant Calicto's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Okay. Let's use common Sense.

    Let's assume the following:
    1. 1 PuddleJumper = 10 Wraith Darts


    It kinda makes sense. It'll probably take more resources to create 1 Puddle Jumper than 10 Wraith Darts, seeing how more effective weapons and shields are on the puddle jumper.

    However, as we saw in Brotherhood, one carefully planted shot by a Wraith Dart could easily destroy a puddle jumper.

    Now, Atlantis probably had 20 MAX Puddle Jumpers when it was fully operational. There doesnt seem like enough space nor function to have more.

    1 Hive Ship is assumed to have 3 Cruiser which has 100 Darts approximately each. from the look of Before I sleep, It seemed like there were 5-6 Hive Ships outside Atlantis. That means, you have 20-30 Puddle Jumpers VS. 1000+ Wraith Darts.

    Now, even more is the fact that QUANTITY is better than QUALITY.

    If 1 puddle jumper does 100 damage per shot and can take 500 pts of damage while a Dart does 50 damage per shot and can take 50 pts of damage. then let's take the following scenario; 1 PJ vs. 10 Darts.

    10 Darts have 10 different chances to hit PJ. While PJ has 1 chance to hit 1 Dart. If the Darts had 50% Accuracy and the PJ had 100% Accuracy that means the following.



    1. First Shots Fired: 1 Dart Destroyed. (9/10) PJ is at 250/500
    2. Second Shots Fired: 1 Dart Destroyed. (8/10) PJ is at 25/500.
    3. Third Shot Fired. 1 Dart Destroyed. (7/10) 1 PJ Destroyed.


    See where this is going? If you're a PJ pilot, you can realistically shoot down one or two Darts at a time while ammo lasts. If you're a Dart pilot, you've got apparently unlimited ammo and you've got friends. If you miss, you've got 294 friends who can help out.

    Therefore, the Ancients may have been 100% technologically stronger than the Wraith, but in space warfare (in place of 3D combat), quantity wins over quality.

    The Ancients could have had 10 Satellites and the Wraith could have easily unleashed a horde of Darts. The satellites can only shoot so many things at a time.

    I believe that these 3 ships are merely a test of sheild. Do as much damage as you can. The Wraith's most important enemy are the Ancients. They need a distraction to waste the time of the Ancients (and to test their defense) so that they can gather all 60+ Hive ships and attack at once.

    *Imagines 18,000 Wraith Darts taking on Shepherd's PJ & Atlantis*

  14. #54
    Chief Master Sergeant Alpha17X's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    For anyone who didn't catch it. I'm pretty sure McKay called Zelenka "Bradik"

  15. #55
    Chief Master Sergeant Carbito's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha17X
    I'm pretty sure McKay called Zelenka "Bradik"
    What scene was that in?

  16. #56
    Chief Master Sergeant Alpha17X's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbito
    What scene was that in?

    While McKay is packing to leave

  17. #57
    Captain Teal'c's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    I just finished watching it (got up at 6:30 am to do so) and I'm literally in tears. Poor Peter, I can't believe he's gone. I thought it was going to be Bates, but he's half-gone too I certainly won't be able to concentrate at college today

  18. #58
    Airman Bossman's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    I don't think Grodin is gone for good, not after I've read that interview with him. So keep you hopes up.
    Truth is relative. Pick one that works

  19. #59
    First Lieutenant Angel of Fire SG1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    OMG I LOVED IT!!

    EXCEPT THEY KILLED PETER!! Although it IS still STargate LOL we know how they are with killing ppl....they have a tendency to...not be dead!!

    BUT OMG IT WAS SO COOL!!

    AND TEYLA PUNCHED BATES!!

    *calms down*

    I thought that was so cool, and I'm not even a big Teyla fan but I was like "OOOH GO TEYLA" and me listening with headphones attracted the attention of my parents who were calmly watching the news

    WHOOPS! hehe

    DAMN CLIFFHANGERS!!!

    *sits around impatiently waiting for next week*

  20. #60
    Captain IMForeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Siege, Part 1 (119)

    I think we can now conclusively say that the Wraith do not have Asgard level hyper-drives. Ancient tech is far superior to Wraith tech... Yay!

    -IMF
    "There's not a little boy born who wouldn't tear the world apart to save his mummy... and this little boy can." --The Doctor.
    "The plastic tips at the ends of shoelaces are called Aglets. Their true purpose is sinister."--The Question.
    BAD WOLF!!!

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