Before I Sleep (115)

[astronomicalchick]

Time travel always has issues with paradox, and I'm willing to bet that McKay will have fun sticking it to Carter when they contact with earth. Given that it proves that her theories about time travel paradox were wrong in 1969.

I dunno, isn't it a ship that jumps time and universes?

[Hatcheter]

I just finished watching 'Before I Sleep'. I gotta admit, I didn't have real high hopes for this episode, based on the spoiler info I had read. While it sounded like there would be some interesting stuff to be learned, I didn't think it would be an 'exciting' episode.

But what spoilers can't say is how well paced a story is, or how much tension there will be. I was on the edge of my seat once the older Wier began telling her version of events. The alternate version where everthing goes straight to hell when they arrive was great. And breaking the story up by having the old Weir fall asleep was perfectly used to up the tension further.

(It also helped that I watched watched 'Rising' last night, and caught the differences as soon as they started. I wonder if they shot that stuff at about the same time they shot 'Rising", or much later in the shooting schedule.)

Add the little shippy moment, good character development, plenty of great banter between Sheppard and McKay, and the set up for future episodes of Atlantis and SG-1, and I think this qualifies as another great episode.

Seriously, since the midseason break, they've hit it out of the park on every episode. And with the possible exception of that impending clips show (though SG-1 got pretty good at those, even), it looks like it's going to continue.

[Lexx]

But wouldn't the un-infected ancients help there own dying people rather then run away.

It was probably clear that there was no cure by then. All the Milky Way Ancients either died from the Plague or ascended. Like Daniel said in "Rising", maybe they just wanted to start over.

ok but if the Ancients where on earth when Ra got here ... I mean the Cover stone from the Giza gate was what 10 to 15 thousand years ago. So that mean either Ra had come and gone by the time the ancients returned or he got their right after the ancients returned.

In Stargate the movie, it's said that the cover stone was 10,000 years old. So either:
A) The Atlantians got there right before it was sealed. They might've even been responsible for instigating the rebellion against the Goa'uld.
or
B) The Antarctic gate was exposed from the ice at that particular time period and they popped out there.

10,000 years ago was when the Goa'uld occupation of Earth ended, not when Ra first discovered the planet.

[Wass]

IMO the timelines are really screwed up now every thing seems to be clashing with each other.

[Hatcheter]

IMO the timelines are really screwed up now every thing seems to be clashing with each other.

I'm pretty sure TPTB have everything sorted out. They're just going to spoon-feed it too us over then next few years.

[Wass]

I'm pretty sure TPTB have everything sorted out. They're just going to spoon-feed it too us over then next few years.

Well I hope so because so far every thing we learn in SGA is conflicting with what we learnt in SG-1.

[Ancient-Jaron]

Good episode. I went in expecting a lot, and came out feeling pretty good about it. I wish there had been more Ancients / Atlanteans interaction, but the story went well w/o it.

As for ships, I think that opening scene was a friendship thing. Thats how I interpretted it, in any case. And I don't know where the McKay / Teyla "ship" comes from, I haven't seen that in the Atlantis I've been watching...

[UnknownJ]

With regard to the name the Ancients give themselves, on more than one occasion they've been referred to as "Lanteans", including by Old Dr Weir when she's talking about the council (which suggests she's calling it the same thing that they're calling it).

Bear in mind the city would have been named while it still sat on Earth, and the pronounciation of the Earth point-of-origin symbol is "At" - it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that they're called Lanteans, and that the name "Atlantis" is derived from a combination of the point of origin, and the name of their civilisation.

[AsgardCarnage]

i don't understand..how can weir's team travel trough new worlds and then come back if only earth can dial atlantis?

janus said he programed the fail safe in, and for the stasis tube to revive weir when her team arives so i guess he also programmed the city to unblock the gate

As for the Ancients, they don't refer to themselves as Atlanteans, they don't even refer to themselves at all.

your right the ancients never refer to them selfs as atlantians, only our kind. but old weir while telling her story calls them atlantians, she must have learned that term from somewhere? also the wraith in "the defiant one" calls them atlantians so i would think it is safe to asume that was their name. but i think that refers to something like their country not species. like i'm australian they are atlantian.

[UnknownJ]

janus said he programed the fail safe in, and for the stasis tube to revive weir when her team arives so i guess he also programmed the city to unblock the gate

I'd guess he might just be referring to the force field - if anybody tried to gate in, the forcefield would come online unless it was a connection from Earth.. As soon as the expedition took manual control of the forcefield, that feature stopped being an issue...

[Ancient-Jaron]

I'd like the gate address blocking method more, opposed to raising the forcefield. I think Janus would have chosen the option that required the least amount of energy, given what he was trying to accomplish. That is, of course, assuming the gates can put other gates on a "do not disturb" list.

I also was interested to know that the Ancients had warships. We don't know anything about them (sadly), but it finally fills in a gap we all knew was there, and assumed something existed; now we know for sure.

[UnknownJ]

My only issue with specifically blocking incoming connections from certain gates is that there is (as yet) no basis for it in SG1..

Now obviously the Ancients know a little bit more about gate technology than Carter, but still, if there was some signal that goes through the gate/DHD on activation that can identify who is dialing in (not to mention a mechanism to prevent an incoming wormhole), I would have expected the SGC to at least have a go at using that functionality.. Not least of all as a way of preventing attacks like the one that Sokar launched in the episode whose name escapes me right now, but you know which one I mean I'm sure.. A particular planet giving you hassle? Just blacklist it, simple..

Then again (and here I destroy my own argument), it's plausible just because when the ancients built the gate network I'd imagine a way of refusing incoming wormholes would be quite an important feature. Unless that overconfidence of theirs got the better of them...

[Ugly Pig]

Man. What I really want to do now is read everyone else's reaction, but that would violate my promise to myself to write my opinion on every episode this season before reading anything else about it after it has aired. Oh well.

PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'Before I Sleep'

What a frickin' awesome episode! Sort of a mix between 'There But For The Grace of God' (alternate reality in which the entire main cast is killed off, but a note with vital information makes it into "our" reality) and '2010' ("our" reality is created because our heroes successfully change the past). I knew this episode involved time travel, but I had no idea alternate universes were also involved.

So: When the team originally came to Atlantis, there was no fail safe making it float to the surface when the shield ran out of power, also; there was very little power for the shield left. Dr. Weir travelled to the past and met the Ancients, and made some changes to Atlantis history so that there was a fail safe, and more power to the shield. Therefore, when the expedition arrives ten thousand years later, they're a-okay. (Oh, and because of this, Weir never travels back to the past. Paradox? Nah, alternate reality. I can buy that.) I think I got that right.

One problem, though: Obviously, in "our" reality, ever since Weir was born there has been two Weirs. One on Earth (and later in Atlantis) and one that was on Atlantis all along, in a stasis chamber. And yet, this never caused a "temporal entropic cascade failure on the cellular level" like when there were two Carters in 'Point of View'. (Of course, that may not have made sense in the first place, but it is Stargate canon.) Maybe temporal entropic cascade failure is a problem that only occurs when someone is travelling between existing realities (through the Quantum Mirror), and not when a new reality is created as a result of tampering with time? That's the story I'm gonna stick with, in any case. I can buy that.

Let's have some Random observations!
- The Ancients eventually mastered time travel (obviously some time after the events of 'Window of Opportunity') but appearantly won't allow it being used.
- Fun references to 'Back to the Future'. Also fun was McKay's reaction to (and discussion with Sheppard about) his fate in the alternate reality.
- The Wraith siege of Atlantis continued after the city had been submerged in the ocean, while the fighting was taking place in space. My guess is the Wraith just picked up and left when the Ancients evacuated, no longer picking up any life signs.
- Was the Ancient woman on the council the woman from the hologram in 'Rising'?
- Was this the least amount of screen time in an episode for Sheppard? Good episode for Weir, though. And I must say, I think Torri Higginson did a great job.
- So, gate addresses to five planets with ZPMs on them, eh? I guess contact with Earth isn't far off now.

I'm sure there will be much nitpicking and complaining about continuity issues or flawed logic or whatever problems regarding the time travel/alternate reality that may be found (and if there are none, there are sure to be people misunderstanding everything and there'll still be nitpicking and complaining) but what it comes down to, for me, is that this is the most fun Atlantis episode in a while. And for that, it will get a big fat

[AtlantisRising]

There is nothing i can really add to this summary wise, however, i too, like most of you, found the episode quite enjoyable! Yes yes that IS an undertatement! *lol*

Knowing that Dr. Mckay risked his life to save Wier, Sheppard and Zelenka really hit me. I mean, it may have been an alternate version of him, however, it does show that he is capable of growing emotionally as a character, and making every moment count, if he puts his mind to it.

Weir, both of them, did an excecllent job. And ironically I too noticed the different "rising" sequence. Pathetically i was kinda "OMG THATS DIFFERENT!" *lol*

I felt really bad though when everyone slowly died. It turned my stomach.

All in all, i hope the epiosdes to come are just as great as most of Atlantis has been.

[Aadizookaan]

Go Piggy, Go, Express your baaaad self.

Any way, to end the useless debate on the Name of the Hologram Lady - Melia, her name is said quickly by Janus after the Council meeting.

To end speculation on what the Ancients call themselves - Atlantian - this is evidenced by the term ATLANTIAN COUNCIL, and Wier's conversation with Janus and Melia, "We call you the Ancients".

Further, to end fighting over the StarGate being locked out of incoming wormholes - New Galaxy, New Gate System, New Rules - there is no DHD on Atlantis only a control module, a smaller one is on every puddle jumper too.