Ori "ascended" Warships

[EternalAlteran]

1. It does not have an infinite power source. A shield with an infinite power source would never give out.

2. Atlantis-level shields can fail, run out of power, and be breached... we know this because we've been told so several times. In fact, we saw thw shield system fail in "Rising," remember?

3. Ori warships might use a buffer system, so it wouldn't be "stop any attack as long as the shield can draw enough energy."

Project Arcturus draws zero-point energy from our universe. If it would have worked it would have drawn the least amount of power a system can have. Even if you remove it it can not go away. Therefore it is infinite. Unfortunatly it turned out to create exotic particles that form an enviroment where the laws of physics caese to apply. And ultimatly chaos (i.e. the destruction of the universe). So it didn't work.

Ancients shield cannot fail. Unless someone would destroy the generators from the inside. Running out of power as pointed out by the one I quoted is no failure. If your battery of your flashlight would run out of juice, the flashlight would not fail or be broken. It would just need a new battery. RUNNING OUT OF POWER IS NOT THE SAME AS FAILING. Also we have never seen anything penetrate the shield when it was fully operational. Only once in the flashback in the begin of the episode Rising, though the Ancient probably calibrated the shield to let the jumper through.

I also believe this as said before. I said that the Ori shield were not like the Atlantis shield, because Asgard Beams, maybe drones and the kawoosh can penetrate it. The Ori shields have in my opinion a very very large buffer and it is probably very effective so that it would not weaken much by external factors (like black holes, neutron star, atmospheric (like Anubis' shields) and long lasting attacks.

[NoobTau'ri]

Project Arcturus draws zero-point energy RUNNING OUT OF POWER IS NOT THE SAME AS FAILING.

Exactly. But you are wasting your time, because the miscreants will never comprehend this distinction. After all, you are arguing with a guy who believes that the Tollan were as advanced or more than the Ancients, so you are wasting your breath. Green.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Well, pet theory there, but I always found the Asgard sudden solution way too convenient within one year, and I believe that they cheated time, by spending got awful amounts of years and clones within a time dilation bubble lab to work on the beam weapon.
It would be both be in tune with Asgard abilities, fir with the all of sudden acceleration of their genetic breakdown (though this would be limited to the scientists in that lab station) and bury the sudden plot convenient wank that those beams were.

That sort of makes sense, they knew they didnt have much time with the ori around, and they didnt have much time themselves, nothing to loose so they isolated themselves for years and worked. Explains why thor was not able to communicate with SG1.

I too believe that the ori shields are very powerful but buffer based, Atlantis is so far the only ship with truly unique shields. In Unending we were able deplete the Ori ship's shields, yet the glowing power source was still glowing. Thus the ori power source is not directly hooked up to the shield but rather to a buffer, if it were directly hooked up the ship would have had no shields and no glowing power source when we fired the killing shots. I dont know if i remember this correctly but i heard some one say several months ago that Mallozzi explained that the Ori ships are dependent on the Ori ascended for power.

[Coremae]

If they were Atlantis level and had an infinite powersource, not even the Asgard Plasma Beams or the event horizon of a supergate could penetrate them. The Atlantis level shields can stop any attack as long as the shield can draw enough energy.

Infinite shields doesn't equate to an impenetrable defense. If I was the Asgard, I wouldn't rely too much on brute force penetration, but would focus mainly on oscillating/modulating my beam's frequency. And apparently, this is what the Asgard did. One may have asked: 'How is it the Asgard didn't have this weapon previously?' The answer, desperate times calls for desperate measures.


They knew the end was coming so decided perhaps to use a sizable portion of their resources and landmass and expose it to a time dilation field. Perhaps there were a selected few who could have been sacrificed(since the virus that was killing them, seriously limited their life span), or maybe they used Loki's extensive databanks, cloned relative humans, imprinted their minds with the minds of various Asgardians---in any event they had to have used the time dilation field perhaps for several centuries, if not several thousand years, and perfected a technology capable of penetrating Ori ship's shields.

[Coremae]

If they were Atlantis level and had an infinite powersource, not even the Asgard Plasma Beams or the event horizon of a supergate could penetrate them. The Atlantis level shields can stop any attack as long as the shield can draw enough energy.

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regular force weapon impacting a nigh impenetrable shield

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an oscillating/self modulating frequency beam impacting
same nigh impenetrable shields.



An impenetrable shield isn't an invincible defense. Since the methods used to create the shield isn't completely impenetrable, since if it was, light would not be able to make it through for you to see your quarry. Perhaps the direct proton burst enabling the motion of light is suppressed, but the wave form of the light manages to make it through, so the shields isn't completely impenetrable.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

From what we know the ori warships where made with the knowledge they had after they ascended and they just told the priors the instruction on how to build them.

I have seen a couple of posts like who would win unascended ori against unascended ancients and some people say the ori warship is better than the ancients warship or the other way around.

I want to know how you know the ori knew how to build those warships before they ascended.

Thank you.

If the Ori were unascended, the ancients would win. Because then there would be no priors, and no ascended knowledge of black holes. The ori were not scientific. They had ascended knowledge, but as unascended beings, they were probably fairly primitive in comparison to the unascended Ancients.

[JSPuddlejumper]

Ori warships are clearly better than the Aurora's. This is self evident.

However, the Ori used Ascended knowledge to build them.


Thus, in an Unascended war, the Ancients would win. They had the techinical knowledge, and the Ori were religious zealots.

[s09119]

Ori warships are clearly better than the Aurora's. This is self evident.

However, the Ori used Ascended knowledge to build them.


Thus, in an Unascended war, the Ancients would win. They had the techinical knowledge, and the Ori were religious zealots.

Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though. In fact, from what we've seen, it doesn't give you any sort of knowledge whatsoever... Daniel learned nothing knew, after all. And nothing an ascended being built was ever more powerful than anything an unascended one of the same race could:

- Orlin descended and built a stargate... we know the Ancients already could.
- Orlin also descended and built an anti-orbital weapon... which the Ancients had already.
- Merlin descended and built a phasing machine... we know the Ancients were heavily involved in studying such things, and they already had cloaking devices.
- etc.

So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.

[x303]

unascended ancients and ori were the same technologically coz they existed as 1 people till the whole ori ancients factions were drawn where the ori wanted ppl to worship and the alterens didn's thats what orilin said, thats y the alterans lefts

the ori had badass ships coz they used their ascended knowledge with there existing knowledge. the way of the universe stuff.

ori and ancients could make tech better by combining pre known knowledge and ascended knowledge. where as jackson pre known knowledge aint tech so he just knows much more of the way of the universe stuff. if carter or mckay ascended they'd be able to make some badass stuff.

ascended knowledge isn't like knowing tech knowledge its reaching a higher evolutionary step, like many bhuddist and eastern cultures aim to.

[kirmit]

Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though. In fact, from what we've seen, it doesn't give you any sort of knowledge whatsoever... Daniel learned nothing knew, after all. And nothing an ascended being built was ever more powerful than anything an unascended one of the same race could:

- Orlin descended and built a stargate... we know the Ancients already could.
- Orlin also descended and built an anti-orbital weapon... which the Ancients had already.
- Merlin descended and built a phasing machine... we know the Ancients were heavily involved in studying such things, and they already had cloaking devices.
- etc.

So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.

On one of the commentaries, might have been the AoT commentary one of TPTB commented that the Ori got the knowledge of stargates from ascension in order to build the supergate, so if they could get that knowledge, it's likely they could get anything.

[Supreme Commander]

From what we know the ori warships where made with the knowledge they had after they ascended and they just told the priors the instruction on how to build them.

I have seen a couple of posts like who would win unascended ori against unascended ancients and some people say the ori warship is better than the ancients warship or the other way around.

I want to know how you know the ori knew how to build those warships before they ascended.

Thank you.

Well we know that the Ancients and the Ori were once a joint race. This means that they would have similar technology, and the Ancients left the Ori galaxy before either race ascended. Then each reace would have improved and changed their technology.

[Supreme Commander]

Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though. In fact, from what we've seen, it doesn't give you any sort of knowledge whatsoever... Daniel learned nothing knew, after all. And nothing an ascended being built was ever more powerful than anything an unascended one of the same race could:

- Orlin descended and built a stargate... we know the Ancients already could.
- Orlin also descended and built an anti-orbital weapon... which the Ancients had already.
- Merlin descended and built a phasing machine... we know the Ancients were heavily involved in studying such things, and they already had cloaking devices.
- etc.

So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.

Ok. When Daniel Jackson was ascended in Season 7, in the coffee house with Oma Desala, it was evident that you could find out what ever you wanted, eg. anubis was attacking earth. Daniel Jackson learnt this from the newspaper. Ascended beings have a wealth of knowledge.

[s09119]

Ok. When Daniel Jackson was ascended in Season 7, in the coffee house with Oma Desala, it was evident that you could find out what ever you wanted, eg. anubis was attacking earth. Daniel Jackson learnt this from the newspaper. Ascended beings have a wealth of knowledge.

There are ascended Ancients in Pegasus. They told their brothers in the Milky Way what was happening.

[BuggyMan]

Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though.

True.

So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.

It has been stated several times that ascension brings you a greater understanding of the universe. That should qualify as advanced knowledge. Like how to leech power from worshippers, disguise yourself as a hologram etc.
Also you lose your ascended knowledge when you descend as your brain cannot hold it anymore. That's all canon.

Project Arcturus draws zero-point energy from our universe. If it would have worked it would have drawn the least amount of power a system can have. Even if you remove it it can not go away. Therefore it is infinite.

That's whats always bothers me about ZPMs. You cannot (by definition) remove the zero point energy of a system. ZPMs should be the WORST energy sources ever as you cannot get ANY energy out of them.
There is no telling what would happen if you actually extracted energy. Maybe you get infinite energy, maybe the universe stops because you just broke a fundamental law.

[EternalAlteran]

That's whats always bothers me about ZPMs. You cannot (by definition) remove the zero point energy of a system. ZPMs should be the WORST energy sources ever as you cannot get ANY energy out of them.
There is no telling what would happen if you actually extracted energy. Maybe you get infinite energy, maybe the universe stops because you just broke a fundamental law.

Actually they can as seen in the ZPM. The problem is that when using a ZPM you create exotic particles in the artificial created region of subspace time and when enough particles are created the region turns in a state of chaos and then you cannot draw any power and the ZPM is empty. The main reason for the Ancients to create the ZPM as Zero Point Energy powersource is that they would be destroying something that is artificially created instead of destroying the universe. We know from experience in Trinity that drawing power from our universe would create exotic particles and we were lucky that only 5/6 of a solarsystem was destroyed. Further evidence is mentioned by alternate universe McKay in McKay and Ms Miller. I believe the Ancients knew thje exotic particle problem and therefore created the ZPM.

Infinite shields doesn't equate to an impenetrable defense. If I was the Asgard, I wouldn't rely too much on brute force penetration, but would focus mainly on oscillating/modulating my beam's frequency. And apparently, this is what the Asgard did. One may have asked: 'How is it the Asgard didn't have this weapon previously?' The answer, desperate times calls for desperate measures.


They knew the end was coming so decided perhaps to use a sizable portion of their resources and landmass and expose it to a time dilation field. Perhaps there were a selected few who could have been sacrificed(since the virus that was killing them, seriously limited their life span), or maybe they used Loki's extensive databanks, cloned relative humans, imprinted their minds with the minds of various Asgardians---in any event they had to have used the time dilation field perhaps for several centuries, if not several thousand years, and perfected a technology capable of penetrating Ori ship's shields.

Yes Infinite shield do mean impenitrable in case of the Atlantis shields. Modulating the frequency would not work since the Ancients shields are not based on frequency. In fact only Goa'uld and maybe the first Earth reverse engineered shields on the Prometheus use frequency oscillation as a base for their shield technology. Consider when the Ancients sank their city to the bottom of the Ocean. What if an earthquake or other natural phenomena would change the water to have a certain frequency, then the shield would let the water through if it was frequency based. I don't think the Ancients would risk that. In fact only the Goa'uld do.