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  1. #21
    Lieutenant Colonel Ltcolshepjumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeCommanderSora View Post
    From what we know the ori warships where made with the knowledge they had after they ascended and they just told the priors the instruction on how to build them.

    I have seen a couple of posts like who would win unascended ori against unascended ancients and some people say the ori warship is better than the ancients warship or the other way around.

    I want to know how you know the ori knew how to build those warships before they ascended.

    Thank you.
    If the Ori were unascended, the ancients would win. Because then there would be no priors, and no ascended knowledge of black holes. The ori were not scientific. They had ascended knowledge, but as unascended beings, they were probably fairly primitive in comparison to the unascended Ancients.
    Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...
    http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=12118
    ... or that any man can measure the tides and hurricanes he will
    encounter on the strange journey.


    Spoiler:

    2 Cor. 10:3-5
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  2. #22

    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Ori warships are clearly better than the Aurora's. This is self evident.

    However, the Ori used Ascended knowledge to build them.


    Thus, in an Unascended war, the Ancients would win. They had the techinical knowledge, and the Ori were religious zealots.

  3. #23
    Colonel s09119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by JSPuddlejumper View Post
    Ori warships are clearly better than the Aurora's. This is self evident.

    However, the Ori used Ascended knowledge to build them.


    Thus, in an Unascended war, the Ancients would win. They had the techinical knowledge, and the Ori were religious zealots.
    Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though. In fact, from what we've seen, it doesn't give you any sort of knowledge whatsoever... Daniel learned nothing knew, after all. And nothing an ascended being built was ever more powerful than anything an unascended one of the same race could:

    - Orlin descended and built a stargate... we know the Ancients already could.
    - Orlin also descended and built an anti-orbital weapon... which the Ancients had already.
    - Merlin descended and built a phasing machine... we know the Ancients were heavily involved in studying such things, and they already had cloaking devices.
    - etc.

    So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.
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  4. #24
    Chief Master Sergeant x303's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    unascended ancients and ori were the same technologically coz they existed as 1 people till the whole ori ancients factions were drawn where the ori wanted ppl to worship and the alterens didn's thats what orilin said, thats y the alterans lefts

    the ori had badass ships coz they used their ascended knowledge with there existing knowledge. the way of the universe stuff.

    ori and ancients could make tech better by combining pre known knowledge and ascended knowledge. where as jackson pre known knowledge aint tech so he just knows much more of the way of the universe stuff. if carter or mckay ascended they'd be able to make some badass stuff.

    ascended knowledge isn't like knowing tech knowledge its reaching a higher evolutionary step, like many bhuddist and eastern cultures aim to.

  5. #25
    Lieutenant Colonel kirmit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by s09119 View Post
    Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though. In fact, from what we've seen, it doesn't give you any sort of knowledge whatsoever... Daniel learned nothing knew, after all. And nothing an ascended being built was ever more powerful than anything an unascended one of the same race could:

    - Orlin descended and built a stargate... we know the Ancients already could.
    - Orlin also descended and built an anti-orbital weapon... which the Ancients had already.
    - Merlin descended and built a phasing machine... we know the Ancients were heavily involved in studying such things, and they already had cloaking devices.
    - etc.

    So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.
    On one of the commentaries, might have been the AoT commentary one of TPTB commented that the Ori got the knowledge of stargates from ascension in order to build the supergate, so if they could get that knowledge, it's likely they could get anything.

  6. #26
    Staff Sergeant Supreme Commander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by SupremeCommanderSora View Post
    From what we know the ori warships where made with the knowledge they had after they ascended and they just told the priors the instruction on how to build them.

    I have seen a couple of posts like who would win unascended ori against unascended ancients and some people say the ori warship is better than the ancients warship or the other way around.

    I want to know how you know the ori knew how to build those warships before they ascended.

    Thank you.
    Well we know that the Ancients and the Ori were once a joint race. This means that they would have similar technology, and the Ancients left the Ori galaxy before either race ascended. Then each reace would have improved and changed their technology.

  7. #27
    Staff Sergeant Supreme Commander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by s09119 View Post
    Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though. In fact, from what we've seen, it doesn't give you any sort of knowledge whatsoever... Daniel learned nothing knew, after all. And nothing an ascended being built was ever more powerful than anything an unascended one of the same race could:

    - Orlin descended and built a stargate... we know the Ancients already could.
    - Orlin also descended and built an anti-orbital weapon... which the Ancients had already.
    - Merlin descended and built a phasing machine... we know the Ancients were heavily involved in studying such things, and they already had cloaking devices.
    - etc.

    So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.
    Ok. When Daniel Jackson was ascended in Season 7, in the coffee house with Oma Desala, it was evident that you could find out what ever you wanted, eg. anubis was attacking earth. Daniel Jackson learnt this from the newspaper. Ascended beings have a wealth of knowledge.

  8. #28
    Colonel s09119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by Supreme Commander View Post
    Ok. When Daniel Jackson was ascended in Season 7, in the coffee house with Oma Desala, it was evident that you could find out what ever you wanted, eg. anubis was attacking earth. Daniel Jackson learnt this from the newspaper. Ascended beings have a wealth of knowledge.
    There are ascended Ancients in Pegasus. They told their brothers in the Milky Way what was happening.
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  9. #29
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by s09119 View Post
    Ascension doesn't make one all-knowing, though.
    True.
    Quote Originally Posted by s09119 View Post
    So, as far as we know, canonically, ascension doesn't give you any sort of advanced knowledge. Give me one example where, onscreen, it's proven that it does.
    It has been stated several times that ascension brings you a greater understanding of the universe. That should qualify as advanced knowledge. Like how to leech power from worshippers, disguise yourself as a hologram etc.
    Also you lose your ascended knowledge when you descend as your brain cannot hold it anymore. That's all canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalAlteran View Post
    Project Arcturus draws zero-point energy from our universe. If it would have worked it would have drawn the least amount of power a system can have. Even if you remove it it can not go away. Therefore it is infinite.
    That's whats always bothers me about ZPMs. You cannot (by definition) remove the zero point energy of a system. ZPMs should be the WORST energy sources ever as you cannot get ANY energy out of them.
    There is no telling what would happen if you actually extracted energy. Maybe you get infinite energy, maybe the universe stops because you just broke a fundamental law.

  10. #30
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by BuggyMan View Post
    That's whats always bothers me about ZPMs. You cannot (by definition) remove the zero point energy of a system. ZPMs should be the WORST energy sources ever as you cannot get ANY energy out of them.
    There is no telling what would happen if you actually extracted energy. Maybe you get infinite energy, maybe the universe stops because you just broke a fundamental law.
    Actually they can as seen in the ZPM. The problem is that when using a ZPM you create exotic particles in the artificial created region of subspace time and when enough particles are created the region turns in a state of chaos and then you cannot draw any power and the ZPM is empty. The main reason for the Ancients to create the ZPM as Zero Point Energy powersource is that they would be destroying something that is artificially created instead of destroying the universe. We know from experience in Trinity that drawing power from our universe would create exotic particles and we were lucky that only 5/6 of a solarsystem was destroyed. Further evidence is mentioned by alternate universe McKay in McKay and Ms Miller. I believe the Ancients knew thje exotic particle problem and therefore created the ZPM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coremae View Post
    Infinite shields doesn't equate to an impenetrable defense. If I was the Asgard, I wouldn't rely too much on brute force penetration, but would focus mainly on oscillating/modulating my beam's frequency. And apparently, this is what the Asgard did. One may have asked: 'How is it the Asgard didn't have this weapon previously?' The answer, desperate times calls for desperate measures.


    They knew the end was coming so decided perhaps to use a sizable portion of their resources and landmass and expose it to a time dilation field. Perhaps there were a selected few who could have been sacrificed(since the virus that was killing them, seriously limited their life span), or maybe they used Loki's extensive databanks, cloned relative humans, imprinted their minds with the minds of various Asgardians---in any event they had to have used the time dilation field perhaps for several centuries, if not several thousand years, and perfected a technology capable of penetrating Ori ship's shields.
    Yes Infinite shield do mean impenitrable in case of the Atlantis shields. Modulating the frequency would not work since the Ancients shields are not based on frequency. In fact only Goa'uld and maybe the first Earth reverse engineered shields on the Prometheus use frequency oscillation as a base for their shield technology. Consider when the Ancients sank their city to the bottom of the Ocean. What if an earthquake or other natural phenomena would change the water to have a certain frequency, then the shield would let the water through if it was frequency based. I don't think the Ancients would risk that. In fact only the Goa'uld do.

  11. #31
    Chief Master Sergeant x303's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ori "ascended" Warships

    Quote Originally Posted by s09119 View Post
    There are ascended Ancients in Pegasus. They told their brothers in the Milky Way what was happening.
    yeah totally man. galaxies are all in the universe. and being ascended gives u universe knowledge its a different plane. so pegasus and milky way ascendee's are together man in some way. even the ori are with them but they hide those galaxies from them. u do see when daniels in that cafe of atlantis news aswell

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