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  1. #21
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arative View Post
    The length of time it takes Martin to take write a book, you never know. But his books are among my favorite so hopefully he does finish it.

    I assume you've heard that HBO has optioned the books to turn into a TV series? Last word, Martin had approved the script but HBO was deciding between Song of Ice and Fire and some series about King Arthur. So nothing is set is stone.

    http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2008...d-song-of.html
    Yes! I was excited about the potential of this series before I even read the books- good to hear that if it does go ahead they might film in Europe or New Zealand. I do want to see these books put to screen, but any film adaption would probably be crap. The books are far too complex and subtle moments shouldn't be lost, each really does need thirteen hours to play out, they are the perfect material for television- providing the budget is good. And the fact that this is HBO, where they wouldn't have to tone it down, even better.

  2. #22
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
    And don't dare suggest that the same might happen as with Jordan. I don't even want to contemplate that! He'll be sixty this year. Lets hope he lives another fourty years and gives us more books after Ice and Fire is finished.
    Robert Jordan had a rare blood disease -- I presume Martin does not. If that is reassuring in the least bit.

  3. #23
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oranos View Post
    Robert Jordan had a rare blood disease -- I presume Martin does not. If that is reassuring in the least bit.
    Well, if he doesn't, that's one potential death scenario off the list.....next up, fans need to keep him from being hit by a bus.....


    *knocks on wood*

  4. #24
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
    Well, if he doesn't, that's one potential death scenario off the list.....next up, fans need to keep him from being hit by a bus.....
    Oh, pick me! I know the answer!

    Spoiler:
    Bubble wrap!

  5. #25
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oranos View Post
    Oh, pick me! I know the answer!

    Spoiler:
    Bubble wrap!
    Bring on the fan campaign.....Wrap a Writer, Save a Series.

  6. #26
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Just started reading the first book a few days back; about in the middle, give or take some pages, I think. It's good, maybe even great, but somehow I expected more after all the raving here. Maybe some of that has tainted my enjoyment of the book, I don't know.

  7. #27
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oranos View Post
    Just started reading the first book a few days back; about in the middle, give or take some pages, I think. It's good, maybe even great, but somehow I expected more after all the raving here. Maybe some of that has tainted my enjoyment of the book, I don't know.
    Just wait and see.....

  8. #28
    First Lieutenant GateofDOOM's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    ...This ol' series?
    I can't even remember how long ago I started reading this. Isn't he finished yet?
    *frowns*

    This is a pretty good series as far as I can tell, but Otherland still beats it out in my books!
    ...er, pun not intended.

    And shouldn't they wait till the books are done till they do a series?
    Although at this rate the contract'll expire before the books are all out!
    "Prepare to meet your DOOM."

    "It's not about making money, it's about taking money. Destroying the status quo, because the status is not quo. The world is a mess and I just need to...rule it."

    GADZOOKS

  9. #29
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
    Just wait and see.....
    Wait and see what? The end of the book, the next in the series...? Darn you and your meager hints! *Shakes fist*

  10. #30
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oranos View Post
    Wait and see what? The end of the book, the next in the series...? Darn you and your meager hints! *Shakes fist*
    It's really best not to know when the surprises are coming. So I'll keep my mouth.....er, keyboard, shut, just read.

  11. #31
    Second Lieutenant Gigajules's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Ooh, I didn't see this thread hiding in here, lol. I finished the fourth book a couple months ago and went right back to the first one to start reading again. It's amazing how much you can miss the first time around. I love the subtlety of GRRM's writing, and the fact that you can read a scene and not always realize every bit of what was actually going on until later. I don't even want to think about what it would be like to keep all of it straight. *brainsplosion*

    My favorite character/POV is Jaime. He's definitely the most complicated character in the series, and a great example of how seeing things from a different point of view can make a huge difference. I love his sense of humor. And Tyrion's. Not sure what that says about me, lol.

  12. #32
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigajules View Post
    Ooh, I didn't see this thread hiding in here, lol. I finished the fourth book a couple months ago and went right back to the first one to start reading again. It's amazing how much you can miss the first time around. I love the subtlety of GRRM's writing, and the fact that you can read a scene and not always realize every bit of what was actually going on until later. I don't even want to think about what it would be like to keep all of it straight. *brainsplosion*

    My favorite character/POV is Jaime. He's definitely the most complicated character in the series, and a great example of how seeing things from a different point of view can make a huge difference. I love his sense of humor. And Tyrion's. Not sure what that says about me, lol.
    Yeah- I'm doing the same thing, I'm going back and re-reading the series very slowly (we've got about six months at least til the next comes out )- I'm about 120 pgs in A Game of Thrones, and already just picking up on the subtle things- appearances of characters that come back later, etc. It's remarkably complex. I just completely missed the whole (seemingly throwaway) mention of
    Spoiler:
    Ser Jorah
    by Robert the first time I read the series, so his true identity came as a shock later on in whichever book that was. But sure enough, early on a single sentence reference to who he was. These books are just so incredibly rich that they can do that- I think the more times they're read, the more you get out of it, they just don't diminish, and I could probably count on one hand the number of books I've read that do that.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Yes! I adore this series and have gotten several friends (and my sister, who, depending on the day of the week, may or may not qualify as "friend"...) irrevocably hooked. They're on my To-Reread list for the summer.

    I'm not-so-secretly in love with Jon Snow. And, surprisingly enough, Littlefinger, even though he's a creep and a pervert. And Tyrion, to some extent. And Jamie. And... everyone.

    And, I'm sorry, Oranos, but I think ASoIaF is quite a bit better than WoT (and yes, I've read all of both more than once ). I think I believe in GRRM's characters more than I do in Jordan's; Rand always seemed like a massive tool, even when he was doing well, and the skirt-adjusting sometimes got out of hand. It's a good series, but it's so frakking long that it dragged at times, which definitely turned me off for a while. GRRM, though, made a believer out of me with end of the first book and the end of the third book, painful though they were to read - I don't think I ever got misty-eyed at WoT, but I darn near cried a couple times in ASoIaF.

    Spoiler:
    Red Wedding = awful. Death of Ned > Red Wedding.

    I know we've all got craploads of questions to be answered, but my biggest one is... where the frak is Rickon?!
    Words to live by: "When in doubt, shoot at the guy yelling 'Kree!'."

    Let's try this again: Spoiler-free 'til Season 4.5.

    EJO on the blooper reel: "I hope you like it... or I'll SQUASH YOUR NUTS."

    Spoiler:

  14. #34
    First Lieutenant Arative's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    I thought a Feast for Crows kind of dragged on but mostly because I didn't like most of the point of views in the book. Looking forward to the next one.

    I read somewhere that originally, GRRM had intended to skip ahead a number of years, so the kids would become young adults. Not sure if that would have been a good thing or not.

  15. #35
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Snow View Post
    Yes! I adore this series and have gotten several friends (and my sister, who, depending on the day of the week, may or may not qualify as "friend"...) irrevocably hooked. They're on my To-Reread list for the summer.

    I'm not-so-secretly in love with Jon Snow. And, surprisingly enough, Littlefinger, even though he's a creep and a pervert. And Tyrion, to some extent. And Jamie. And... everyone.

    And, I'm sorry, Oranos, but I think ASoIaF is quite a bit better than WoT (and yes, I've read all of both more than once ). I think I believe in GRRM's characters more than I do in Jordan's; Rand always seemed like a massive tool, even when he was doing well, and the skirt-adjusting sometimes got out of hand. It's a good series, but it's so frakking long that it dragged at times, which definitely turned me off for a while. GRRM, though, made a believer out of me with end of the first book and the end of the third book, painful though they were to read - I don't think I ever got misty-eyed at WoT, but I darn near cried a couple times in ASoIaF.

    Spoiler:
    Red Wedding = awful. Death of Ned > Red Wedding.

    I know we've all got craploads of questions to be answered, but my biggest one is... where the frak is Rickon?!
    The questions, the questions.....I love the fact that with Jamie
    Spoiler:
    he is so frakking despicable. Until a Storm of Swords and his POV and suddenly I like him! And I do think he is one of the few darker characters who can still attain redemption.


    But I think my absolute favourite thing- the bit that sold me on the series (I liked it before this, but it wasn't truly in a a league of it's own among everything I've read until this event), was when
    Spoiler:
    at the end of AGoT Ned died. I was floored, it brought a tear or two, but it was the fact that Ned had been presented as the main protagonist of the series. And GRRM killed him in the first book- which just completely changed the perspective. Brilliant.
    I'm sure that there are other writers have done that before, but I've never read them.
    Last edited by Trek_Girl42; May 17th, 2008 at 05:33 PM.

  16. #36
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Snow
    And, I'm sorry, Oranos, but I think ASoIaF is quite a bit better than WoT (and yes, I've read all of both more than once ).
    What on Earth are you apologizing for? Everyone has different tastes. I wouldn't hesitate to admit that Martin's series isn't even on my top 5 list, probably somewhere in between 5 and 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Snow View Post
    I think I believe in GRRM's characters more than I do in Jordan's; Rand always seemed like a massive tool, even when he was doing well, and the skirt-adjusting sometimes got out of hand.
    I think both authors did fine with their characters, though I think I'd give Jordan the edge simply because I like Mazrim Taim so much. And I'm not completely sure why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Snow
    It's a good series, but it's so frakking long that it dragged at times, which definitely turned me off for a while.
    I think most of the people who believe it drags felt so for one of two reasons: Jordan describes everything very, very intricately -- much more so than Martin, from what I can tell of his first book. Two, Jordan doesn't really rely on huge battles to captivate, instead relying on other pieces to do so. The earlier books covered longer periods of time (years, I believe), so he could pick and choose more so, while the later books would cover a month or two, instead.

    I think my biggest problem with Martin is his style of writing. It's something I'm very picky with -- what I'm most critical of. Probably why my book collection isn't bigger. I'm very selective of what I choose because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Snow
    GRRM, though, made a believer out of me with end of the first book and the end of the third book, painful though they were to read - I don't think I ever got misty-eyed at WoT, but I darn near cried a couple times in ASoIaF.
    As good as "A Game of Thrones" is, the book never really hooked me the way "The Eye of the World" did. It's not easy to get an emotional response out of me in television or reading. So far, Martin hasn't really done that. Jordan in the first 200 pages of his first book had two scenes that give me shivers: the prologue and Moiraine's speech on Manetheren.

    All that said, from what I've read of Martin's series, he has something special going (I can't judge beyond the 3/4 or so I've read of the 1st book). Jordan too, has a special series. And both are very good authors. That cannot be denied.

  17. #37
    Second Lieutenant Gigajules's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oranos View Post
    Two, Jordan doesn't really rely on huge battles to captivate, instead relying on other pieces to do so.
    Martin doesn't either. (Unless the reader happens to be one who is only captivated by huge battles, I guess.) The fact that there's a war going on through most of the big picture is something that drives a hundred other smaller stories the events of which mean something different for each character, both on an intimate level and in the larger scope of things.

    A good part of the draw - for me, at least - is that it is not a happy shiny world where you're sure everything will be all right in the end because the good guys always win. In fact, the good guys usually get completely screwed in horrible ways. I'm not evil or anything (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), I just dig the realism.

    There's the brilliant use of POV, too. Even if you don't agree with or like a particular character, you can see where they're coming from (and often whether or not they're completely bat$#!t crazy, as is often the case). I think Jaime's definitely the best example of how knowing what goes on inside a person's head can make you view them in an utterly different light. (And Cersei's probably the best example of how it doesn't, lol.)

    In any case, it's a lot more complicated than huge battles.

  18. #38
    Major General Trek_Girl42's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigajules View Post
    Martin doesn't either. (Unless the reader happens to be one who is only captivated by huge battles, I guess.) The fact that there's a war going on through most of the big picture is something that drives a hundred other smaller stories the events of which mean something different for each character, both on an intimate level and in the larger scope of things.

    A good part of the draw - for me, at least - is that it is not a happy shiny world where you're sure everything will be all right in the end because the good guys always win. In fact, the good guys usually get completely screwed in horrible ways. I'm not evil or anything (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), I just dig the realism.
    That's the great thing- whatever happens in the end, some character that you love will get screwed over. If they even live to the end. There are very few, if any, characters that are "safe". We don't even know who's the most essential piece to the narrative! (though I'm sure many readers will argue for different characters, alas, my favourite character is not likely to live out the series )
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigajules View Post
    There's the brilliant use of POV, too. Even if you don't agree with or like a particular character, you can see where they're coming from (and often whether or not they're completely bat$#!t crazy, as is often the case). I think Jaime's definitely the best example of how knowing what goes on inside a person's head can make you view them in an utterly different light. (And Cersei's probably the best example of how it doesn't, lol.)

    In any case, it's a lot more complicated than huge battles.
    Good lord yes. If I despised her before her POV, after we saw her POV that turned to absolute vicious hatred, I mean really. Absolutely horrendous human being. If she even deserves to be called that.

    Jamie on the other hand, who was my least favourite character before (the golden haired bad boy, who kills his king and throws a boy out a window to protect his secret incest? ), becomes one of my favourites after his POV. Very sympathetic, and possibly redeemable. Unfortunately it sounds like his POV won't be in ADWD (or at least until the end half- as I understood it, most of the next book will cover the characters missing from AFfC, but towards the end the timelines will meet up so we'll see some resolution to AFfC cliffhangers?), and we'll have to wait until the next book.

    I find that I liked AFfC probably more than the average reader because my favourite POVs are split down the middle between this "two-parter" (though I hate to wait what will probably be another three years before I get my favourite character back!) of AFfC and ADWD. The only thing (and I think this is what most people didn't like about the book and I absolutely agree) that makes the book a bit weaker than the others is the Iron Island chapters- those POVs were hard to follow and I kept getting the characters mixed up (using the nicknames rather than their proper names for the POV titles was a mistake) to the point of writing a chart for myself. I suspect this must have come as a result from having to split the original big book into two, because the rest of GRRM's characters and writing is superb, it's just those chapters that don't feel quite like they ever developed enough which makes them hard to read. He must have had to do a lot of re-tooling trying to make sure what went in to the book fit together, that this whole new group of POVs probably didn't get as much attention as they should have in re-writes.
    Last edited by Trek_Girl42; May 18th, 2008 at 10:04 AM.

  19. #39
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigajules View Post
    Martin doesn't either. (Unless the reader happens to be one who is only captivated by huge battles, I guess.) The fact that there's a war going on through most of the big picture is something that drives a hundred other smaller stories the events of which mean something different for each character, both on an intimate level and in the larger scope of things.
    From what I've read thus far, I realize that. But it's a combination of the above mentioned factors for Jordan (and more that I could go into, but won't). For some readers, that's tedious; I think this is part of why some readers don't appreciate Jordan. Or so it seems. Martin isn't close to Jordan's level of detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigajules
    A good part of the draw - for me, at least - is that it is not a happy shiny world where you're sure everything will be all right in the end because the good guys always win. In fact, the good guys usually get completely screwed in horrible ways. I'm not evil or anything (that's my story and I'm sticking to it), I just dig the realism.
    I agree, in part. I like to see the bad guys as top dog, but there needs to be that sliver of hope, something that gives the good guys a remote chance. When authors take that to extremes, that too can be a bit tedious. And ridiculous. I think there needs to be a balance; you can't lean too much in one direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigajules
    In any case, it's a lot more complicated than huge battles.
    Indeed. In fact, most of my favorite series/books don't have some huge battle. There's more important things.

  20. #40
    Colonel Oranos's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire appreciation/discussion thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_Girl42 View Post
    That's the great thing- whatever happens in the end, some character that you love will get screwed over. If they even live to the end.
    There are very few, if any, characters that are "safe". We don't even know who's the most essential piece to the narrative! (though I'm sure many readers will argue for different characters, alas, my favourite character is not likely to live out the series )
    See? You've come to expect death too much.

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