What name for the S/J Ship thread?

[TameFarrar]

I don't think it sounds exclusive - there are no exclusive threads in GW in that they are all public. If anyone wonders what the thread is about, and why on earth it has that name, the first thing they'll do is go in there and have a look.

And when they do they'll either see something they like or they won't. It won't take long for them to get a flavour of the place and, most likely, drawn in to it.

But it also means that the people who don't want to have the light hearted Ship banter could start a different ship thread if they wanted to. At the moment, with the title of the thread the way it is, no-one has any choice. If they want to talk Ship on GateWorld, they have to join the one single thread that we have. And it is the Ship Family thread, regardless of whether you want to call it that in the title or not. Nearly every post mentions the Ship Family in some way, either in the post or in a sig.

Gategipsy I am in agreement with you

I see no reason not to Name one thread The S/J Ship Family discussion Thread and Another The S/J Serious Discussion Thread...It is what the thread is about..

If people are going to continue to get hung up on semantics we are never going to get anywhere

It offers an option and there is nothing wrong with that.........Granted the *Family* thread DEFINITELY gets into some very serious discussion when the show is running new episodes and we all know that......but since this has happened and some would like to have year round serious discussion let them....move on.....We who have been enjoying the thread the way it has been KNOW what it is and what we discuss and can continue to enjoy it...Let anyone who is a long time poster or a newbie make that choice for themselves

And I would like to also add my thanks once again to Gategipsy for ALL her hard work trying to resolve this issue.........

So When do we get to go back to being a family and shipping for Sam & Jack and eating cookies and dancing with penguins and JUST ENJOYING EACH OTHER

[Token]

Mel....

There IS a thread already for just this discussion...It is called the Ship Discussion Thread and is for ALL Pro/Anti Ship Discussion in a friendly yet lively manner.....So if that is what you are looking for well GW has already done that

Just do a search of the Forum OR I am sure someone can provide a link for you and other that want to have a Debate with the Anti Shippers.

Edit - found the link http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=88

True. I think since J/S Ship is a hot topic (like S/J themselves ) Pro-S/J Shippers should have a "serious only" thread where they feel safe from differing opinions. I do believe there is a Anti-S/J Ship discussion thread plus the Ship Discussion thread and the Pro-S/J Ship Discussion and to make it complete we just need the "On Topic Only" Pro-S/J Ship thread. And if the Anti-S/J Ship need a "On Topic Only" thread, let them have that too. JMHO

ETA: Tame, LURVE your new sig line!

[Bagpuss]

My problem with renaming it the Ship Family thread is that that sounds exclusive. Anything that seems to reference a pre-established group of people is going to scare off newbies, I think. Leaving the name as it is suggests that it's open to all S/J shippers.

I take your point,but let's take the off-topic Thread "Ask a Mod",...despite the title,anyone's welcome to drop in to help out the people asking questions there !! (Anything that helps out Posters and Mods is fine by me ! )

I think that calling it the "ship family" thread is going to cause more confusion. It sounds like it's a thread only for fluff and not for real discussion. And trust me — when there's new stuff to discuss, we really discuss it!

Perhaps it may sound "Fluffy" ,but as you say,the new eps will get us all on-topic,whatever the title ,IMO.

I'm relatively new to this fandom, but not to online fandom in general, and seriously, if I were new to GW and saw a thread called "ship family", I'd wonder what these people are smoking. And this comes even with knowing most of the general fandom lingo like ship and shipper. "Ship family" is a phrase unique to this group of people, from what I've seen in the other fandoms in which I've been involved. To a newbie, there's nothing clear and unambiguous about it.

That's where GW J/S hospitality,warmth,and your FAQ,and other helpful things come in.

I don't think the OT thing is going to be solved by a thread name. It happens occasionally — we're human beings, we digress. This issue has come up before, and the solution basically boils down to people needing to be more considerate in their posting. And if some people really want to have a "serious", non-community thread for S/J, why not let them, regardless of what the poll said? It's clear that some people are unhappy with the way things are run now, so if they want to try a "serious" thread, I say let them. I also say that it'll be dead before January, but that's just my opinion.

You're right. We're Human.That alone entitles us to individuality.I think being human is a mix of many things,and just as there's no perfect answer to loads of things in RL,matters of semantics, and opinions, here on GW, are a matter of personal choice.

As to a second serious on-topic discussion thread : let's wait and see,once the voting and decisions are finalised ?
I'm an optimist,and I know one thing,the Ship Family is strong,loyal and dedicated to Sam/Jack Shipping and to each other.We'll be Ok !

EDIT: And if there is a "serious" discussion thread, I think it shouldn't fall under the no-anti posting rule we've had at the current thread. If people really want a "serious" discussion of S/J, then opposing views should be welcomed and discussed as well.

Mel

That sounds good.....I suppose the Ship Discussion thread,could be the place or maybe not.
Trouble is,the wording would be the crucial thing.Good thought ,though !

(Please don't feel I'm attacking your post or you either,Mellyanna. It's just that I have a long experience of negotiation and peace-keeping on several Committees I've belonged to."Compromise" is my stance on just about everything ,lol ! )

[astronomicalchick]

Gategipsy I am in agreement with you

I see no reason not to Name one thread The S/J Ship Family discussion Thread and Another The S/J Serious Discussion Thread...It is what the thread is about..

If people are going to continue to get hung up on semantics we are never going to get anywhere

It offers an option and there is nothing wrong with that.........Granted the *Family* thread DEFINITELY gets into some very serious discussion when the show is running new episodes and we all know that......but since this has happened and some would like to have year round serious discussion let them....move on.....We who have been enjoying the thread the way it has been KNOW what it is and what we discuss and can continue to enjoy it...Let anyone who is a long time poster or a newbie make that choice for themselves

And I would like to also add my thanks once again to Gategipsy for ALL her hard work trying to resolve this issue.........

So When do we get to go back to being a family and shipping for Sam & Jack and eating cookies and dancing with penguins and JUST ENJOYING EACH OTHER

the penguins are just waiting for their orders...

"SG-Penguins, you have a go"

Jeez I'm so silly...

Thanks to GG to, good work!

[GateGipsy]

the penguins are just waiting for their orders...

"SG-Penguins, you have a go"

Jeez I'm so silly...

Thanks to GG to, good work!

And AstroChick - the first poll has closed and the decision was that we stick with the way things were. So that's where your penguins belong!

This is a completely new thread, because the vote was actually a close one.

30 people voted to go back to the way things were but 25 people voted to stay with the old thread, only rename it the S/J Ship Family thread.

That means that over all 55 voters (out of about 71 I believe) wanted to keep the original thread. However nearly half of them wanted to change the name of it.

Personally, I can see the huge benefits in changing the name. It would mean that the thread was firmly identified with the Ship Family, and all it's fluffy, serious and OT chat. And it also meant that people who wanted different kinds of ship dicussions would have the freedom to open other threads, without the complaint that they were duplicating threads.

[Melyanna]

Not long after I started hanging out in the ship thread, the name was changed from "Ship Discussion" to "Shipper", because of the consistent level of meta-content. This was supposed to shift the emphasis from "you may only discuss S/J" to "this is a place for S/J shippers to discuss S/J and related topics." "Related topics" were the things developed by the posters on the thread and therefore on topic. So there is another option for people who want a ship discussion thread — name it the "S/J Ship Discussion Thread". Easy as that.

I still contend that "ship family" is an excluding term to new people, because they most likely aren't going to understand what that means at first glance. Quite frankly, it sounds like a clique. Public thread or not, it's going to look like "this is a thread for a certain group of people," and it's probably going to prevent some new people from posting. On the other hand, "shipper" is a generic term that's used in ALL fandoms. Someone coming here with previous experience in the Harry Potter fandom, for instance, is going to know exactly what the thread is for. You say that people would click on "ship family" out of curiosity, but I think it's far more likely that people are going to look through the thread titles, not see a shipper thread, and think there isn't one. Or worse, that you have to be a part of a specific group of people to be able to post in the thread.

We're being told a lot that newbies feel intimidated by the thread. How is changing the name to yet another in-thread phenomenon going to help matters at all?

[GateGipsy]

If that was the case with the name change then sorry, but that completely passed me by. It would be more helpful if the first post in the thread actually stated that, then I'd know exactly what the thread is for.

Like it or not the Ship Family is a clique. It's just an all encompassing and all embracing friendly kind of clique. Hiding that from the subject of the thread isn't going to change that at all. All it does is make people feel perplexed - they go into the thread expecting a certain type of discussion maybe, and perhaps are greeted by three or four pages on penguins and cookies. However, having it called Ship Family means that they know already that it is a 'different' kind of place, and they're far more likely to get into the spirit of it.

Plus I like the name 'ship family'. It makes it sound like a cosy, friendly place to be. If I was new to the boards, a thread with that name is the first that I'd open.

I wouldn't say that the reason we're doing all this is because newbies feel intimidated by the current thread. I'd say Part, and only part, of the reason we're doing it so that newbies aren't confused by it.

[TameFarrar]

If that was the case with the name change then sorry, but that completely passed me by. It would be more helpful if the first post in the thread actually stated that, then I'd know exactly what the thread is for.

Like it or not the Ship Family is a clique. It's just an all encompassing and all embracing friendly kind of clique. Hiding that from the subject of the thread isn't going to change that at all. All it does is make people feel perplexed - they go into the thread expecting a certain type of discussion maybe, and perhaps are greeted by three or four pages on penguins and cookies. However, having it called Ship Family means that they know already that it is a 'different' kind of place, and they're far more likely to get into the spirit of it.

Plus I like the name 'ship family'. It makes it sound like a cosy, friendly place to be. If I was new to the boards, a thread with that name is the first that I'd open.

I wouldn't say that the reason we're doing all this is because newbies feel intimidated by the current thread. I'd say Part, and only part, of the reason we're doing it so that newbies aren't confused by it.

Again Gategipsy...I am in agreement...I don't think that putting the word *Family* puts a negative connotation on the thread UNLESS someone wants it to be that way. The fact is The SHipper Thread is a Bit *different* and that is one of the VERY reasons so many people HAVE gravitated to it.....It is OPEN, It is FRIENDLY ..It is EMBRACING....It has become a FAMILY...AND it NEVER turns anyone away NEVER....each person has the choice if they want to join. We all have been there and we all do *try* very hard to embrace the new people...and for those that the WHOLE package ...cookies, penguins, banter AND DISCUSSION is what they want they do find a way to be part and HEARD.

But it is a cligue in a sense...we are the SHippers...We are asking the Mods to keep UN Pro Sam & Jack sentiment OUT so that is cliquey

To much is being placed on finding what is negative about this instead of finding the positive...There are many that have seen that this will work and so now lets make it work AND lets make sure that the confusion is kept as little as possible SO we don't have to do this again..

[Melyanna]

I'm coming at this from the perspective of having been a long-time poster and moderator of other sites, some quite large. I've seen this kind of thing before, and while it's usually done with the best of intentions, it rarely causes less confusion. Usually, it makes the situation worse.

I remember one incident — there was a Yoda discussion/appreciation/fan thread that was for some reason called "The Blue Yoda Society". It was some inside term that the group had come up with. 90% of the people posting in the thread for the first time posted some variation of "What the heck is this?"

I realize this isn't quite so extreme, but I still think that "ship family" is too much of an inside term to really use it as the thread name. For one thing, the first thing I think of when I see it is (still) that it's a class of boats.

I just don't see how this is going to solve anything. Editing the first post of the thread to indicate that the thread is for discussion of S/J Plus would do the same thing, without potentially confusing people with unfamiliar terminology.

EDIT: Also, we've got an FAQ in progress. Can we wait until that's had at least a test run before changing the name? It seems like we're rushing around to find a solution for the perceived problem without waiting to see which solution is working because we've got half a dozen going at once.

[TameFarrar]

I am still NOT seeing how the S/J Shipper Family Discussion Thread is confusing NOR is it a deterrant to a newbie in my eyes

[dipsofjazz]

I am still NOT seeing how the S/J Shipper Family Discussion Thread is confusing NOR is it a deterrant to a newbie in my eyes

I agree with you, Tame. When I was a newbie to the boards I would lurk in various threads to find out what it was all about. Once I found the "feel" of the thread I liked, I would post. I don't see how the name change would cause any problem. If you look at the names of many of the other threads here in Gateworld, it's difficult to know what they're about. You just have to read them and all will be revealed! For me, personally, part of the fun at Gateworld is to look around...it's amazing the fun and frivolity that ensues over the board, aswell as the serious discussions.
If people can't be bothered to read even a small amount of posts in a particular thread before they post, then they run the threat of being off-topic or breaking forum rules etc. That goes for every thread in Gateworld.
If I saw "S/J Shipper Family", I would have a look to see what this thread was all about. I would do my lurking before making any judgement. Am I the only person around that likes to know what's going on, before sticking my oar in?
Family Thread, to me, means a friendly place, and I really don't see the problem.

[Bagpuss]

We seem to be in a no-win situation for some J/S Shippers,whatever the result of this vote,IMO.

I just noticed that there are currently 1580 General Discussion threads available to choose from.

Why should one more J/S related topic thread make any difference ?
Why the semantics ?

These are not rhetorical nor angry questions.Just a sincere effort to understand the defensive mood among my fellow Shippers.

Also there are 2 Daniel Threads,and 2 Sheppard / Flannigan Threads.
The Posters on those threads and many other Discussion/Thunk threads seem happy,IMO.No divisions,that I can see as an outsider looking in .


When I go for a takeaway,I may visit the same place,but I try new menu items,rather than stick to the same safe choices ......point ends.

[Token]

We seem to be in a no-win situation for some J/S Shippers,whatever the result of this vote,IMO.

I just noticed that there are currently 1580 General Discussion threads available to choose from.

Why should one more J/S related topic thread make any difference ?
Why the semantics ?

These are not rhetorical nor angry questions.Just a sincere effort to understand the defensive mood among my fellow Shippers.

Also there are 2 Daniel Threads,and 2 Sheppard / Flannigan Threads.
The Posters on those threads and many other Discussion/Thunk threads seem happy,IMO.No divisions,that I can see as an outsider looking in .


When I go for a takeaway,I may visit the same place,but I try new menu items,rather than stick to the same safe choices ......point ends.

I'm going to attempt to answer this question from my OWN opinion. There have been complaints from other forum members that the S/J Shippers had too many threads. A decision was made to consolidate them into one. We asked permission from Darren to hold a special Ship Day thread. If we were sticking by GW rules would we have had to ask permission? Maybe not, but to discourage any complaints we asked first. I think the same is here. Some would like to start an "On Topic S/J Ship" thread (which would be within their rights), but feel that Darren and the mods might have seen it as a duplicate thread (that is up until now). If a distiction can be clearly made between two pro-S/J ship threads, then I don't see the problem. JMHO

[TameFarrar]

TOKEN!!!!! I LOVE YOU SIG....... Follow me and we shall find Jack...eat green Jello and be smothered in Lurve !!!!!

[blueiris]

I am not voting. I wait with the penguins for orders.


(have to watch where I step around here with these birds)