John Sheppard Can't Win

[SGASG!]

Its true that the seem to indicate that Sheppard was doing something special back on earth like in the episode Phantoms when we see his operation in Afghanistan and other such occasions.

[SupremeCommanderSora]

So, I know Teyla and Ronon are supposed to be the two "baddest" warriors in Pegasus, and I enjoy it when they assert themselves as such, but does anyone else think it's strange or get a little annoyed at how, whenever we see them sparring with Sheppard or in a cooperative combat situation, John always gets his butt kicked mercilessly and easily, as if he's not a highly-trained, formidable former "black ops" soldier?

We have seen teyla fight with wraith so she should be able to take down sheppard.

[Reiko]

Not so much with Ronon as he's built like a brick **** house, but Teyla kicking his arse all the time has me rolling my eyes a bit, I mean she's like 5' 4" or something!

.: Size doesn't matter in terms of fighting ability. Your style and best techniques you use may differ, but lemme tell you I know plenty of, for lack of a better term, "short" women kick tall, even hunky men's asses. Heck I know one that is known as "the cup breaker".

.: I think it's realistic Johnny gets whumped. He shoots things. Shooting is his specialty. Like he told Teyla, he would have shot her by now. (The Gift)

[ascended abydonian]

both Ronon and Teyla are excellent fighters, but I do think that some of the time Sheppard should get to at least come close to winning. However, the first time Rodney McKay kicks John's butt in a fight, I will swear off the show forever!

[captain jake]

Well now that Teyla is pregnant she will not be taking down anyone in a fight. As for Ronon he will always have a leg up on Sheppard, just like Teal'c had a leg up on Jack -a special forces veteran- but Teyla did not seem like she could have beat him as many times or as easily as she did. That is simply a plot hole that we will all have to live with. Teyla will hopefully be dispatched from the show allowing such plot holes to be plugged.

[Lythisrose]

Shep does end up in quite a few situations where women are "dominating" him - the ones mentioned, plus all those Wraith Queens! Even Chaya kind of took control during their "sharing."
(I think the writers really like to see this )

[SpaceCowboy]

Okay. Sheppard is an experienced helicopter pilot in the USAF which means that he would have been through Escape and Evasion training. He would have been trained in basic hand to hand combat and in small arms. It does seem to stretch credulity, however, to make him into some kind of Special Ops wunderkind. It is also important to remember that he joined the Atlantis Expedition because of his ability to fly "almost anything" and because he has the Ancient gene, which allows him to manipulate the ancient technology with unconscious ease.

The "Devil Dogs" of the expedition were Col. Sumner, USMC, deceased; Lt. Aiden Ford, USMC, Missing presumed dead; and Sgt. Bates(?), USMC(?) unaccounted for since the end of Season 1. Sheppard stepped in to fill the void and has remained because he is good at it and because all of his supposed replacements became Wraith food.

As I remember it, Teyla had to teach him Bantos fighting, but he has made significant progress, but that is not his preferred form of fighting. He was trained to light up a target, push a button and watch the explosion. He can apparently fly anything: chopper, jumper, Osprey, F-302.

And, he can play golf!

[prion]

Okay. Sheppard is an experienced helicopter pilot in the USAF which means that he would have been through Escape and Evasion training. He would have been trained in basic hand to hand combat and in small arms. It does seem to stretch credulity, however, to make him into some kind of Special Ops wunderkind. It is also important to remember that he joined the Atlantis Expedition because of his ability to fly "almost anything" and because he has the Ancient gene, which allows him to manipulate the ancient technology with unconscious ease.

The "Devil Dogs" of the expedition were Col. Sumner, USMC, deceased; Lt. Aiden Ford, USMC, Missing presumed dead; and Sgt. Bates(?), USMC(?) unaccounted for since the end of Season 1. Sheppard stepped in to fill the void and has remained because he is good at it and because all of his supposed replacements became Wraith food.

As I remember it, Teyla had to teach him Bantos fighting, but he has made significant progress, but that is not his preferred form of fighting. He was trained to light up a target, push a button and watch the explosion. He can apparently fly anything: chopper, jumper, Osprey, F-302.

And, he can play golf!

I won't hold that golf thing against him but yes, the writers were busy turning him into the wunderkind - having him fly all sorts of aircraft used in several different branches of the military, plus now Special Ops stuff? Lord, I hope they remember that's what O'Neill did!

[Killdeer]

I don't think it's stretching credulity to believe that Sheppard was a special ops pilot, especially when you consider all the types of equipment that he's trained on, and I've been told that some of these aren't even flown by the Air Force. Why would a regular Air Force pilot get that extensive of crosstraining?

Rising Pt 1.

SHEPPARD: Apache, Black Hawk, Cobra, Osprey ...
O'NEILL: That's a lot of training for the Antarctic.
SHEPPARD: It was the one continent I never set foot on.

And in Outcast:

Spoiler:

NANCY: ......all those times that you would just take that call and leave – no apologies, no explanations ... For all I knew, you were halfway around the world, flying secret missions into Somalia.
SHEPPARD: That's ridiculous. I've never been to Somalia.
NANCY: North Korea, then.
SHEPPARD: There's a big difference.

Would a regular Air Force pilot be

Spoiler:

flying secret missions into North Korea?

I'm not sure why the writers keep dancing around this rather than just coming out and saying he was special forces (or not) but I do think they gave us a pretty big clue here.

[Teslan]

Truly, at least some of this can be summed up by one word: Whumpers.

To have a segment of fandom (and a pretty persistent one at that if Mallozzi's blog is any indication) devoted to promoting physical harm to a character, the writers obviously have felt pressured to lay the hammer on Sheppard.

And while perhaps they have gone overboard (starting to remind of the line Browder threw out there about Mitchell's superpowers being 'the ability to get beat up' or something), I don't really think the issue is his beatings at the hands of his teammates. It's not like he is fighting them in real combat situations, and yes, "size matters not".

[KindlyKeller]

We have seen teyla fight with wraith so she should be able to take down sheppard.

We have seen Sheppard fight with Wraith, so he should be able to take down Teyla.

[tombombadil]

he lets tey win! ronon can kick his ass because he;s big. and then there's michael

[Emerald01]

Maybe, in a real, hand-to-hand fight, Shepperd could take Teyla. Bantos fighting? No way. She's been doing it for years, and it's totally new to him. Or was. All military go through basic combat training. But techniques for ongoing training vary. A special forces person wouldn't continue to use straight on hand to hand. He'd be using every advantage, coming out of hiding places, and shooting people, as he did in The Storm and The Eye. Ordinary hand to hand is not something he seems to do regularly. Sparring is also different.

And don't be too down on martial arts training. Many forms are actually quite practical for actual fights. I'm 5'7" and easily was able to control a 6' guy who tried to hit me. My training is quite practical. Extremely so, actually.

The real inconsistency that I see is in Shepperd being able to handle a Wraith face to face. That shouldn't be possible. For Teyla, yes. Shepperd? nope.

I have to say, the whole Whumper thing kind of disturbs me. i know that characters getting hurt is part of the show, but for people to actually seek to have a preferred character get hurt? I totally don't get that. Except for McKay getting shot in rear with an arrow. But that was just plain funny.

Cheers!
Em

[Chrisisall]

Maybe, in a real, hand-to-hand fight, Shepperd could take Teyla. Bantos fighting? No way. She's been doing it for years, and it's totally new to him.

Agree!

All military go through basic combat training. But techniques for ongoing training vary. A special forces person wouldn't continue to use straight on hand to hand. He'd be using every advantage, coming out of hiding places, and shooting people, as he did in The Storm and The Eye. Ordinary hand to hand is not something he seems to do regularly.

Exactly.

And don't be too down on martial arts training. Many forms are actually quite practical for actual fights. I'm 5'7" and easily was able to control a 6' guy who tried to hit me. My training is quite practical. Extremely so, actually.

In my class we had a 4'9" girl that could take down the biggest guy (6'2"), and we trained in some dirty techniques...

Plus, please note that Rachael is NOT a stick-thin model, she has her some muscles!!!!

Impressed Chrisisall

[Crichiel]

I get that Teyla is a great fighter, but I don't think we need to see it by her constantly beating up John in sparring matches. I get it. She's strong...(insert heavy sarcasm here) "Oh, look, Sheppard was taken out by a girl. Doesn't that show how wonderful we women are, and that we can do anything a man can do, only better?"....