Question about ST: Nemesis and the Remans

[LordAnubis]

If you've ever seen Star Trek: Nemesis, you know that the main bad guys in the movie were Remans, a conquered people subjugated by the Romulans, and forced to work in the Dilithium mines of Remus. The Remans were kept underground and were therefore sensitive to light and very pale.

My question is: Are the Remans a separate species unrelated to Vulcans and Romulans; or, are they some sort of mutated Romulan? I ask this because I've heard both.

The Romulans split from the Vulcans around 2000 years ago. A typical Romulan has minor differences from a typical Vulcan. However, Remans are totally different from Romulans. Assuming that the Remans were Romulans at one point, it seems unlikely that they would evolve to be so different from the Romulans (i.e., having "fangs" and alien features). True, being underground for centuries would make them light sensitive and pale, but what about being bald, claws, and fangs? These things wouldn't just evolve over a few hundred years. I suppose they could be genetic modifications, but for what purpose?

I guess my opinion is that they were a native species to Remus and were conquered and subjugated by the Romulans. So, IMO, they cannot be related to the Romulans, but are a separate conquered species. Any ideas?

[SaberBlade]

the Remans are Romulans

they look differently because of the condition of their homeworld and because the slowly changed to adapt to their homeworld so they are just mutated Romulans.

it is possible that there was some genetic engineering so they could survive the mines or there was some sort of natural mutation

[Elite Anubis Guard]

erm well the remans didnt evolve on romulus did they? cos if not they could be clashed as a seperate species!

[LordAnubis]

the Remans are Romulans

they look differently because of the condition of their homeworld and because the slowly changed to adapt to their homeworld so they are just mutated Romulans.

it is possible that there was some genetic engineering so they could survive the mines or there was some sort of natural mutation

I dunno, the Romulans left Vulcan only 2000 years ago, give or take, and then settled on Romulus. It probably took them at least a few hundred years to form their society and build a technology base, so it's hard to believe that the Remans evolved from Vulcanoids to that form in only about 1500 years. They looked nothing like Romulans/Vulcans. They had fangs, claws, and no hair. Like I said, I can see some changes taking place due to the conditions of Remus and mines, but that much of a change in such a little time, it doesn't seem possible.

[Daniel Jackson]

There's rumos that the Remans evolved from the Romulans, but I find this doubtful. I can buy a group of Vulcans evolving into the Romulans, but the Remans simply look too alien to be evolved Romulans. One could say that the group of Vulcans whom rejected logic and emotional repression colonised Romulans and Remus. Some evolved into Romulans, the others evolved into Remans. This, I can by, but look at Earth. Several thousand years, and we haven't evolved at all, so I can't buy the "Vulans or Romulans evolved into Remans in a few thousand years" argument. Whut I think is far more likely is that the Reman homeworld is infact Remus, explaining their predatory nature, and that their world was conquered by the Romulans when they colonised Romulans.

[Tom Servo]

There's rumos that the Remans evolved from the Romulans, but I find this doubtful. I can buy a group of Vulcans evolving into the Romulans, but the Remans simply look too alien to be evolved Romulans. One could say that the group of Vulcans whom rejected logic and emotional repression colonised Romulans and Remus. Some evolved into Romulans, the others evolved into Remans. This, I can by, but look at Earth. Several thousand years, and we haven't evolved at all, so I can't buy the "Vulans or Romulans evolved into Remans in a few thousand years" argument. Whut I think is far more likely is that the Reman homeworld is infact Remus, explaining their predatory nature, and that their world was conquered by the Romulans when they colonised Romulans.

That is probably the explination. Maybe the remans were the original inhabitants of romulus. When the romulans colonized romulus they probably found the remans, hearded them up using more advaced tech then the remans had and relocated them.

[LordAnubis]

There's rumos that the Remans evolved from the Romulans, but I find this doubtful. I can buy a group of Vulcans evolving into the Romulans, but the Remans simply look too alien to be evolved Romulans. One could say that the group of Vulcans whom rejected logic and emotional repression colonised Romulans and Remus. Some evolved into Romulans, the others evolved into Remans. This, I can by, but look at Earth. Several thousand years, and we haven't evolved at all, so I can't buy the "Vulans or Romulans evolved into Remans in a few thousand years" argument. Whut I think is far more likely is that the Reman homeworld is infact Remus, explaining their predatory nature, and that their world was conquered by the Romulans when they colonised Romulans.

Yep, this is my theory too. I just wish they stated this more clearly in the movie or the books. There is no way that much evolution can occur in such a little amount of time.

Great post, thanks, Daniel Jackson!
Jared

[Lexx]

Whut I think is far more likely is that the Reman homeworld is infact Remus, explaining their predatory nature, and that their world was conquered by the Romulans when they colonised Romulans.

That what I think too. It just seems impossible that a group of Romulans could've evolved soooooo much to look like how the Remans do. Considering the Remans are perfectly designed to live and function in the dark and cold underground of Remus I'm betting they evolved there and were just enslaved by the Romulans.

[David85]

Shh... Don't try to make sense of the loopholes in the terrible movie.

I mean why would the Romulans want to clone Picard 25 years ago? He wasn't even a captain then.

[LordAnubis]

Shh... Don't try to make sense of the loopholes in the terrible movie.

I mean why would the Romulans want to clone Picard 25 years ago? He wasn't even a captain then.

Good point!

[Gothann]

Must have been a shot in the dark.. I mean, after 25 years, high-ranking officers are retired or are promoted to Admiral, where they have nearly no military bearing anymore, except contact Starfleet ships to order them to do missions.

Bleh, why am I even defending NEMESIS, of all movies? *Dies*

*comes back to life* Ok, so the Remans don't seem to be Romulans. They must have been a race that evolved on Remus and was enslaved by the Romulans due to them wanting to create a Romulan-exclusive empire. Not to mention: Remus and Romulus are part of a mythical story, in which I'm sure the writers thought it would be fun to incorporate the name Remus for the planet of slave workers. (quick parallel)

[Daniel Jackson]

Yep, this is my theory too. I just wish they stated this more clearly in the movie or the books. There is no way that much evolution can occur in such a little amount of time.

Great post, thanks, Daniel Jackson!
Jared

Anytime, Jared!

On another note, I think having the Remans as a slave-race is far more interresting than having them be evolved Vulcans or Romulans. I mean, they've already done that with Romulans being evolved Vulcans. The Romulan empire is called the Romulan Star Empire, they expand territory via conquest. Seeing a "slave race" makes for interresting story telling and can demonstrate the horrors that result of said slavery.

[Daniel Jackson]

Shh... Don't try to make sense of the loopholes in the terrible movie.

I mean why would the Romulans want to clone Picard 25 years ago? He wasn't even a captain then.

The movie is set in 2379. 25 years ago would be 2354 when Captain Picard was commanding the Stargazer, a year before loosing it to a battle with a Ferengi Marauder. It's entirely possible that the Romulans could have sent some random alien to "encounter" the ship for trade or something and somehow get DNA from a "promising" young captain. They just got dang lucky when he got command of the Enterprise, though by then, the plan had been abandoned.

[Alex Rubit]

If I get this right (only glancing over it), this is about why the Remans would have cloned Picard 25 years ago....

Well, they didn't. Because the clone, Shinzon, was altered so that he would age more rapidly. So he might seem to be about 25, but he's in fact much younger. If you watch the movie again, you'll see. That's the reason why he needed Picards DNA to survive. So they cloned Picard at some time after he took command of the Enterprise, which makes perfect sense.

Yeah, Shinzon looked kinda bad towards the end of the movie, as if he weren't taking all his vitamins

[Daniel Jackson]

If I get this right (only glancing over it), this is about why the Remans would have cloned Picard 25 years ago....

That and the origin of the Remans as either evolved Vulcans or Romulans or a seperate species.

Well, they didn't.

They did.

Because the clone, Shinzon, was altered so that he would age more rapidly. So he might seem to be about 25, but he's in fact much younger. If you watch the movie again, you'll see. That's the reason why he needed Picards DNA to survive. So they cloned Picard at some time after he took command of the Enterprise, which makes perfect sense.

Dr. Crusher explained that his DNA was modified so he could skip some 40 years of his life. When that DNA wasn't activated, his DNA began to break down. That's why he needs Picard's blood to survive.

Yeah, Shinzon looked kinda bad towards the end of the movie, as if he weren't taking all his vitamins

He should do a "Say no to drugs," commercial.