'The Ark of Truth' General Discussion

[Mitchell82]

Huge disappointment. I expected a lot more for the finale of the Ori-arc.

The only good scene in the movie was Teal'c talking to Tomin. It was long overdue to see Teal'c dealing with everything he's done in the past as First Prime of Apophis.

I'll have to disagree on that. That was a great scene but far from the only high point in the movie.

The rest was just a bunch of bad ideas and plot holes. The biggest problem was doing to many things in short time. The hole replicators sub-plot didn't belong in this movie. It took the attention away from the real story and it had no real meaning. If TPTB wanted replicators they could have come up with a better story and make another movie about them. The replicators part could've been replaced with dealing more with Morgan and other Ancients, show more of the begining of the Ori-Ancient war, how, why, who created the Ark. There are so many thing that could have add to the story, but were just diregarded.

I'll have to agree and disagree on this one. They did do alot in a short time however Rob Cooper did it well. A subplot with Morgan and the other Lanteans would take too much away from the central plot. First it would have to be a scene in the past and Morgan is a Lantean not Alteran. Remember that there are millions of years separating the two. They fit Morgan in the only way it would make sense. Having her as a part of the Alterans wouldn't have made any sense. When I first heard they were revisiting the Replicator story I wasn't sure about it. They brought them back in a rather unique yet in a typical politically ignorant way. I was very pleased with how it was done.

We didn't see any team work. There was the usual Daniel/Vala banter with Teal'c as the middle man in the begining and then it turned into the Mitchell show, which I find ridiculous cause the movie is called Ark of Truth and Mitchell didn't have anything to do with the ark.

Not true. The team did split though they did work together. It was far from the Mitchell show IMO. The action between the Odyssey and the action on the planet with the Ark was evenly split and done well IMO.

And of course there are all the little things that make no sence. Weapons To Maximum you're not the only one to notice or be bothered be the fact that while Sam and Cam dealt with the replicators, we'll give them 10-15 hours for that, Teal'c crossed what seemed like several mountains, not to mention the miles and miles of flat around Calestis, while he had no food or water and he was seriously injured.

First Teal'c is very resilient and made it very far when badly injured. As to the time difference it was happening at the same time however time is irrelevant in tv and movies. It was a very dramatic scene IMO.

I was really bothered by the scene with Adria. It was a good enterance, but the praise ends with that. Even as just a human Adria was advanced and could tell what was going on around her without looking, and if people were telling the truth, you would think that after she ascended she got more powerfull, not dumber. Vala distracting her while Daniel turned on the ark just doesen't make any sence, considering everything we've seen Adria do in the past.

I disagree. That scene was well done IMO/

All in all I would give this film a 3/10 and hope for the best in Continuum.

Well to each his/her own.

[Mitchell82]

I thought that was great for them to show us the creator of the Stargate.

Agreed. I loved that little hint.

[PG15]

Loved it, though vaguely on a detached level.

It's strange. I have accepted that Stargate SG1 has been cancelled, and thus have more-or-less put the series behind me. I'm much more focused on Stargate Atlantis now, which I've always enjoyed more than SG1 anyway. Still, there were many great moments in this movie (it's weird calling it that) that made it highly entertaining. Unlike Atlantis, I don't feel up to writing a huuuuge post with mucho well-thought-out paragraphs since I'm no longer that attached to the show. Instead, I'll just list the things I enjoyed, and point out the very few things I didn't:

Good Stuff

Ok, I'll just say it right here: if I ever won the lottery, a good portion of that will be going to Joel Goldsmith to do whatever it is that he wants with it (preferably using it to get an orchestra to score all of Atlantis season 5). The man is AMAZING in this movie. The score is just...it's hard to describe really, because it's just THAT awesome. The opening sequence was mesmerizing, the Teal'c-on-a-mountains scene was extremely epic, and the end montage of the Priors being re-de-brainwashed was truly cinematic. There were many other music highlights, such as the Supergate sequence, the short-but-powerful Doci scores, and the updated replicator theme, which sounded like the score from

Spoiler:

Atlantis's "Outcast"

Which is only fitting. Really, the man is a genius.

That brings us to the Replicators. Unlike many people, I've always been, still is, and probably will be, a fan of the replicators. Loved their introduction, loved their episodes in the series, both SG1 and SGA, and I loved their involvement here. Sometimes, I just want a good ole' shooting war, and that's what I got in spades. The scenes near the end of the replicators rushing the walls was just wonderful to see, and the "RepMerrikeleton" made me go "wow". I loved the effect, personally.

Smoothly, that brings us to Merrick. Currie Graham is a gem in this movie. Right away, you can tell that he's one of those professional double-talkers who wears the same "nice-guy" mask to everyone. Fortunately, Cam saw right through him. He's right, you just knew he was an a-hole from the beginning. The great thing about Graham is that he sustains this level of contempt all the way to his horrific "death"-by-zombification. This brings me to the combination of this and the last paragraph, namely the IOA plan. I thought it was brilliant, actually, just in terms of not caring for any life and getting the job done. The Ori galaxy is ridiculously far away, and so, if we are able to destroy the Supergate, we'll probably never hear from them again. Meanwhile, the Ori forces get lynched. It's not ethical, it depends on a great many things...but it works, and it'll work fast. Still, it's not something our heroes would've let stand. Really though, this fact that Merrick was a tool really made me feel sorry for him. He was following orders; his intentions were...good, I guess, and he got killed in the most terrible of ways. His screams were just...yikes.

That, and I would've liked to see him in Atlantis. Oh well.

Speaking of brilliant guest stars, Tim Guinee delivered once more with this movie. I loved him in Crusade, I loved him more in Line in the Sand, and he was just awesome in this movie. For once, we got to see some humor out of him; he was more than just the devout follower or simple village guy. Of course, we also got that intense scene between Teal'c and him, which was incredibly telling, from both Teal'c and Tomin's side. At the beginning, I thought it was a way to use Teal'c to develop Tomin's character, but at the end, it was clear that both were tortured souls, to an extent. Excellently done. The torture scene was difficult to watch (mostly because it made my ears hurt), but also with Tomin's loud screams of pain going on. This guy is just INTENSE, and that adds a lot to his character. The ending, having him back as a simple man now leading a...galaxy? was a great return to the man we saw in Crusade. A good, honest man with a bright future ahead of him.

Huh...looks like I'm betraying my own introduction. Ah well, continuing on...

Now that I think about it, there are a great many awesome stuff in this movie. I would just like to give it up for Rob Cooper for the direction. I loved how the camera kept moving; it gave a much more dynamic and epic feel to the movie, which was also helped greatly by the rush of colors created by filming with...well, film. Right from the beginning, you can see the difference between it and digital. Even though sometimes it just can't help but feel like an episode, on the whole, I think it did feel like a grand adventure movie. Well done sir!

Finally, before I get to SG1 itself, I just like to mention a few little things that I loved about the movie. First, the resolution to the climax of the movie, namely how we got the Doci "converted". I LOVED how it was soooo simple: just shoot the table, and let gravity do the work! Also, the fight between Zombie!Merrick and Cam was intense. The latter got whumped pretty hard. And of course, I gotta give it up for Sarah Strange for her performance as Morgan Le Fey. We didn't get to see much of her, but every time she was on screen, you can feel the wisdom, the power, and the "Ascension-y" feeling that she exudes. Lastly, Julian Sands is once again awesomely creepy and menacing as the Doci, and his realization and crying at the end was definitely unexpected and heart-breaking; a man who's been released from bondage that he chose to be in. It's just that, he was such a powerful character and evil villain that seeing him so weak and sad and diminished was hard to witness and grasp...but Sands pulled it off, and made it even sadder. Wished we could've seen more of that.

And so we get to SG1. Even though the movie was obviously about them, we really didn't get much development. Though I suppose it's hard to do that in 100 minutes of a plot-heavy movie, and when they've had 10 (or 2) years of development already. I'll just talk about each in turn:

Cam: The man has his one-liners, and Ben Browder delivers them perfectly. A great combination of acting and writing. The fight was, as I said, intense, and really, it just makes it perfectly clear what Cam's role is: he's the action guy. He's entertained me pretty well during the series, and I'd say he was definately on his game with the movie. Loved it.

Sam: Ok, so she wasn't in it that much, but when she was onscreen, she was Sam all the way. Soldier Sam, Science Sam, Chef Sam? Well, they were all there, and Amanda Tapping did not disappoint. In fact, I'd say her technobabble was even more entertaining here than in the series, somehow. The end scene was cute and touching, though it no doubt enraged Sam/jack-shippers a-plenty. But come on, poor-beaten-up Cam deserved more than just funky Macaroons.

Teal'c: Man oh man...he was the MAN this episode! Loved his determination at getting to his friends. Even though he had a hole in his back, he still managed to stagger across mountains to get to them. Once there, he worked his magic, and basically, along with Danny and Vala, saved 2 galaxies. I've already mentioned his talk with Tomin earlier, so I won't go into depth about it again, only to say that it was awesome, again.

Vala: I think she got the most lines, and most of them were hilarious and truly irritating (to those who she's speaking to. I personally loved them). Beside that though, I loved her scenes with Tomin and Adria. The former were just sweet, and you can see the real Vala coming out behind the emotional wall she usually puts up. Besides Daniel, I'd think Tomin was the only other to see this side of Vala, a person who truly cared about someone more than about their wallet. As for Adria, the disturbing part is really the detached way they communicated with each other; Adria stalked and circled her like a predator and Vala stayed calm and didn't waver a bit. The connection they had as mother and daughter was truly severed at the end of Dominion when Vala tried to killer her, as Adria said. Facinating stuff.

Daniel: The man of the hour; the one who opened the Stargate and saved the galaxy on a regular basis did it again with a realization of irony. Throughout the movie, he has been the beacon of hope; there was the return of the excited archeologist kid from in the past, especially during the scene where he oh-so-carefully cleans the Ark of Truth. But really, as many have pointed out, the defining moment is his confrontation with Morgan Le Fey. When I read a recent interview with Michael Shanks where he talked about that scene, I had expected a lengthy and passionate plea for help. What I got was much more, and much less. Daniel barely spoke, and for good reason. He has realized that controlled pleading gets him nowhere. It's now time for begging, because there is really no other way. The Ancients won't listen to reason, so the only way left is to release all that pent-up emotion and, even if it doesn't work, at least he said what he's been wanting to say all this time. It was an amazing scene, and Shanks did an amazing job. The way he just rubs his eyes, almost crying, and saying "No!" at Morgan's insistence that she can't do anything...powerful stuff.

And then his return with "I am here". The man may seem to have lost hope, but there will always, ALWAYS, be a bit of it within him. Always.

Bad Stuff

I wanted more epic battlez. Also, as I said earlier, the torture scene hurt my ears. And...well, the Ark itself looked like a cooler with stuff stuck to it and painted black. It was especially apparent when Danny wheeled it into the room near the end. Heh. Oh well.

---

So, overall, I enjoyed it greatly. The most important thing though, that I've noticed, is that, by the end of the film, it became apparent to me that I would've prefered this to an 11th season to round it all out. The action in the movie was continuous and the plot kept moving. What's more, the more extragant sequences could've only been done in a movie and not on the show, so that was certainly a plus that wouldn't have seen the light if the show went on with an 11th season and this movie's events was included within it. However, an 11th season would've obviously allowed for more fallout to be seen, namely how the Doci and the Priors adjusted to the truth. Still, Stargate: The Ark of Truth closes out the Ori arc with a bang and a healthy dose of character moments, and that's just the way I like it.

Score: 9.5/10

Now bring on Stargate: Continuum!

[Ugly Pig]

You're right! Same guy. There's a continuity issue for you.

Not the same guy.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

hey is it me or does the ark of truth have this slight pause in it when the time is 58:18 when merrick is in the brig and he's about to be converted into the Human-Replicator Thing.

[Drax]

I'd say that's just the layer change over.

[KindlyKeller]

Not the same guy.

What makes you so sure? I'm willing to be wrong; I'd just like to have it proven.

[mi4si]

movie was alright, it was nice to see the gang again even if some of it was a bit forced in places....was looking forward to seeing the ascended being that helped daniel ascended twice, but forgot she is fighting eternally with anubis

[jasminaGo]

I'll have to disagree on that. That was a great scene but far from the only high point in the movie.

For me it was. Except maybe the final scene where all of SG1 get ready for a new mission.

I'll have to agree and disagree on this one. They did do alot in a short time however Rob Cooper did it well. A subplot with Morgan and the other Lanteans would take too much away from the central plot. First it would have to be a scene in the past and Morgan is a Lantean not Alteran. Remember that there are millions of years separating the two. They fit Morgan in the only way it would make sense. Having her as a part of the Alterans wouldn't have made any sense. When I first heard they were revisiting the Replicator story I wasn't sure about it. They brought them back in a rather unique yet in a typical politically ignorant way. I was very pleased with how it was done.

Merlin was also Lantean but in the movie Vala calls him an Alteran. Also in S9 in "The Fourth Horseman" Orlin said

Spoiler:

that the Ori and the Alterans had different views on life so the Alterans decided to leave. Over time both groups advanced and eventualy were able to ascend. The Ori learned that they can draw power from the lower plains so they created humans to worship them.

In the AoT however it seems that the Ori were ascended and had already created humans long before the Alterans left for the MW, which doesn't make sence to me.

Not true. The team did split though they did work together. It was far from the Mitchell show IMO. The action between the Odyssey and the action on the planet with the Ark was evenly split and done well IMO.

That was a personal observation. I didn't like how Mitchell was introduced into the show since S9, he was very "in-your-face" O'Neill replacement IMO, so every scene where he's pulling impossible stunts, is like a punch in the gut for me. I really don't buy the scene there he's fighting the what's his name IOA guy, and gets away with just cuts and bruises.

First Teal'c is very resilient and made it very far when badly injured. As to the time difference it was happening at the same time however time is irrelevant in tv and movies. It was a very dramatic scene IMO.

What I've always loved about SG1 is that the show had realism, well as much as sci-fi show can be real. That's why that scene bothers me so much.

I disagree. That scene was well done IMO

Well to each his/her own.

There is a thread about what TPTB should do in every episode or movie to keep every single fan happy. If only that was possible.

[Petra]

I guess I'm in minority, but I didn't like it. Actually I should use a stronger word, but I didn't care all that much about AoT in the first place, so whatever. I'm waiting for Continuum.
I agree that the best scene was Teal'c and Tomin's talk. It was great, and these two characters made the film watchable to me. The rest was just ridiculous.

Spoiler:

The plot:

please...I thought it was supposed to be a movie about The Ark and the Ancients/Ori..instead we got Replicators. I'm soooo tired of them. Replicators were great, but they were dealt with in season 8! End of the story. Bringing them here just showed that the writers are out of ideas. Secondly: we simply used the Ark and everything's ok? No discussion, no reflection, no dilemma, no nothing...That's poor, poor writing. And contrary to what RCC had said in his interviews, I didn't learn anything new about the Ancients.

I don't need more special effects, space battles etc. Just give me more background, more actual story.
Besides in StarGate movie there wasn't a StarGate! (apart from the SuperGate that is, but we crossed it with ship, and at least half of the movie took place onboard- I'm getting tired of ships )

The SF:
IMHO they weren't all that impressive, especially on Dakara. I expected more from the movie. I admit though, that Adria in flames was done great, if cliched.

The music:

It was ok, for the most part. The original theme is nostalgic, sure, but IMO doesn't belong to this movie. I always think of ancient Egypt and the Goa'ulds when I hear it, not the Ori..

The Characters:

ok, I make no secret that I'm no fan of Mitchell. I didn't like him here either. The fight scene was ridiculous and far too long. I felt like I was watching Terminator or Space Soldier or something like that. And can someone please tell me why Mitchell was in command of the ship? I'm not trying to bash him, really, I just don't understand. Have I missed something? We are out of proffesional ship commanders? What? Also, does the line about Merrick being ex-black ops and doing the same job as Mitchell did, means that Mitchell was in black-ops?

Carter. I can't say much, she was hardly in it. Unfortunately, 'cos I'd been looking forward to seeing her..Amanda did a great job, as usual, but something did not sit right with me. Since when does Sam shrink from command? I mean the whole "chair scene". It was weird.

Daniel was his usual self, even if I thought his visions to be a stretch. Thank God it was explained more believably. I didn't like MS acting at moments- ok, in just one scene, when he talked to Morgan La Fey, but that's just me.

I liked Vala here. She was both funny and serious. Good job.

Teal'c, as I said, is The Best. He was great, even though his walking the mountains during mere hours (and do we know how long was he unconscious earlier?) is totally impossible. I didn't like the scene where Morgan healed him, seemed awfully contrived, but again, that's just me.

Tomin rocks! He was wonderful, both the actor and the character, and that's all I have to say For the life of me I can't figure out though, how he, a commander in the Ori army, knew someone from the anti-Ori resistance. Or how come they trusted him.

Landry. Now he was awful, even worse than Mitchell. Who wrote the lines for him?! They were so utterly cliched and pathetic I cringed every time he opened his mouth.

ok, that's it for now. Please don't flame me, it's just my opinion, not the general statement

[Integrabyte]

hey is it me or does the ark of truth have this slight pause in it when the time is 58:18 when merrick is in the brig and he's about to be converted into the Human-Replicator Thing.

Chapter or layer change

[Shan Bruce Lee]

4. Oh yeah, the most damning is the fact the a self destruct passcode for the replicators was written on a note afixed to one of the control crystals.

If it had been on the crystal it would'vebeen easier for the replicators to find it in the system. Being written on the crystal made it harder for them to find.
That's what I think anyway

[prion]

Quite honestly, I thought AOT was okay. Not bad, but not great. It was, for most parts, just like an episode. The beginning had some nice cinematogrpahy over show which made me think A LOT of SGA's "Rising" pilot.

Didn't see much 'pushing the envelope' into it wouldn't have been allowed on TV, heavens forbid, except maybe Cam's bloody face (and honestly, the poor guy should have looked like a swollen fruit after being hit in the face that many times!)

[Crichiel]

My OPINION:

The movie was amazing! Perfect? Of course not (Mitchell fight? Way too long!), but still an hour and a half of some of the most enjoyable time I have had with SG-1. Specifics for why I thought so:

I liked the Alteran background the opening provided, but I also liked that it was quick and that within 4 minutes, we got to Daniel et. al on Dakara. There are many places where they rushed through plot points, but more on that later. Here, I enjoyed the fact that we jumped right in.

The idea of finding, using, and hiding away AN ark, may not be original, but I thought the idea for the use of THIS ark, was. I found the finding of it through Merlin (Morgan) a clever device to help move the plot along quick enough for the limited time available. Again, thinigs HAVE to be unnaturally rushed when you are only given an hour and a half, but I at least found this believable considering Daniel's background with Merlin (and even more satisfying to find out it was Morgan, who is a great character and a more natural one to use considering Merlin's DEAD!).

I have always liked the original-form Replicators. I find them creepy in the way that army ants are. Just a single purpose, to keep marching forward, destroy everything in their way, to keep reproducing/replicating. Their overwhelming numbers, the realistic way they moved around practical props, and the incredible gunfights against them all remided me of Enemies and Reckoning, and reinforced how good SG-1 can be in the pure action department.

I thought the IOA's idea of using them was totally believable, knowing the IOA. They have always shown themselves to be quick to jump the gun once they have an idea, without knowing or understanding the possible ramifications of their actions. To me it was like saying, "We've made this incredible technology. A nuclear bomb. It WILL destroy the enemy."...then leaving it at that. Yes, it will, but what happens AFTER you've attacked the enemy with them? The technology is now there for anyone to use against you.

As for our favourite characters: Teal'c speech to Tomin was a highlight. So many times while watching SG-1, I forget all the evil Teal'c did as First Prime. This really drives home the point of redemption and what can and cannot be taken back. Sam was super-technobabble-science-queen. I loved it. I have missed that so much with her on Atlantis. Mitchell really stepped up as team leader for me here. I liked Landry for the first time. I don't personally get the point of having the scene with the Prior on Earth, but Landry did a great job blowing him off! Nice to see him act like a general for a change. I fell in love with Vala again. In S10, she could really annoy me. Here she was still funny, but not a scene stealer and her scenes with Adria were exciting to watch. Daniel has always been my favourite, and here he did not disappoint me. My favourite scene (best moment later) was Daniel and Morgan in the prison cell.

For the sake of brevity (too late), I will just bullet point the other things I thought were well done:
-The humour. Still funny, but didn't go into all out parody or take over the movie.
-The sets (except for Dakara, which was big and grand, but looked too set-ish)
-Bringing back so many known secondary and bit players: Tomin, Walter, Reynolds, Marks, Adria, the Doci, and two known Priors.
-Bringing back the Asgard core and the cloak for the Odyssey.
-Merrick's part. Slimy little b------, loved hating him.
-Every scene in Adria's little Ori drawing room.
-I could easily see five to six plot points that could have each been made into entire episodes (some even two-parters) had the show been renewed. It's frustrating because it all had to be radically compacted, but in realising the necessity to do so, I thought the writers balanced out very well what HAD to be shown with what could just be told to get to the denoument with a minimal amount of confusion. I am disappointed that so many things are glossed over, but you work with what you have.
-I WAS going to go into a whole thing about how I CAN see exactly where the 7 million was spent, but that would take too long. If anyone is really interested, I'll break it down in another thread. Basically, I thought a lot of the effects, sets, stunts, were well above what they have had for the show.

-And my favourite moment? Morgan's response (and fan-frelling-tastic smug smile) when she tells Adria "I am now."

[LawgSkrak]

I just bought this. Will be watching tonight.

Ah hell. I'm watching it now!