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    #76
    Originally posted by CaptJanson View Post
    That is...slightly disturbing *lol* - but it might work. As long as it's like you said, with the kids looking human until a certain percentage is symbiote, and then looking symbiote, then I don't think it would be a problem for anyone, and it might solve the shortage of Tok'ra. I wonder if somehow they could get a queen this way?

    Do we know why some symbiotes become queens?
    Is it genetic (like for humans - dependent on chromosomes), or environmental (because of temperature/feed/hormones/etc. like for many reptiles, amphibians, fish, and insects), or something else entirely? Can the queen control how many larvae becomes queens or is it random?
    Actually an interesting idea, to get symbiotes that way, though you would either have to continue doing that or somehow get one that is a queen. That would be preferrably.

    I don't think there has been any mentioning of how symbiotes become/are born queens. The one about them being dependent on environmental factors during development could possibly lead to a plot bunny, though it seems reasonable that a symbiote queen can control how many daughters she gets, given that they can control just about everything else in their kids.
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      #77
      Originally posted by Skadi View Post
      nebulan - I looked at your picture. It's great! You are good at drawing. I like your idea with 'human + symbiote = Tok'ra' - it's cute.
      Thanks I wanted to draw what she looked like before becoming a host, so it was a fun excuse to draw the snake while I was at it, hehe.

      CaptJanson, thanks of course symbiotes are cute!!


      (made by my sister)

      Wow, I really wish we knew if there could be more queens, otherwise the tok'ra might become just a cause instead of a race in a few millenniums.

      Lets see, the only queens we know of, Hathor, who apparently needed human dna?? Egeria, of course, and then the queen in "Evolution". other than that, we know very little about them, don't we? like... how exactly does that big thing even fit inside a human! lol!

      Frankly I think the whole Harsesis storyline seems pretty dorky, I don't really get how the symbiote's dna gets involved in the child in the first place. Maybe the writers realized that too so that's why we never hear about it again after the 3rd season. Right up there with being able to sense other goauld/torka/jaffa? that seemed a little dorky too, my sister pointed out that Sam and Caldwell in Atlantis now should be able to sense each other, lol!

      On the other hand, if symbiote DNA does get involved with the offspring, after a few generations, they will have a new race on their hands. There will be humans, jaffa and tokra, who may or may not be able to have children with each other (I still wonder if Jaffa and humans could have children...)

      So... a if a Tok'ra and a human had a kid, that kid wouldn't have any genetic memory, right? (so confused...)
      Last edited by nebulan; 17 March 2008, 03:16 PM.

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        #78
        Originally posted by Hathor_girl View Post
        Actually an interesting idea, to get symbiotes that way, though you would either have to continue doing that or somehow get one that is a queen. That would be preferrably.

        I don't think there has been any mentioning of how symbiotes become/are born queens. The one about them being dependent on environmental factors during development could possibly lead to a plot bunny, though it seems reasonable that a symbiote queen can control how many daughters she gets, given that they can control just about everything else in their kids.
        Yes, given their total control of their kids DNA and memories, I would have to agree that they should be able to control how many daughters they have - which leads to the question of why the Tok'ra don't have a couple of queens - Egeria certainly should have thought of that. That is also what they seem to hint in the first Tok'ra episodes, that they do have queen(s) and just need hosts to grow in numbers. Apparently the writers decided to change that in the episode 'Cure', probably for dramatic reasons. It is so much more tragic to kill off Egeria when she is all that stands between the Tok'ra being a dying race and a viable one.

        I start to more and more believe in the 'alternate universe' idea. It is as if something happened to the Tok'ra idea in the writers head, sometime early 4th season, which was totally to the Tok'ra's disadvantage. Does anyone know if there was a change in writers around then?


        Originally posted by nebulan View Post
        Thanks I wanted to draw what she looked like before becoming a host, so it was a fun excuse to draw the snake while I was at it, hehe.

        CaptJanson, thanks of course symbiotes are cute!!


        (made by my sister)
        That one is cute too - yes, I agree, of course symbiotes are cute

        Wow, I really wish we knew if there could be more queens, otherwise the tok'ra might become just a cause instead of a race in a few millenniums.

        Lets see, the only queens we know of, Hathor, who apparently needed human dna?? Egeria, of course, and then the queen in "Evolution". other than that, we know very little about them, don't we? like... how exactly does that big thing even fit inside a human! lol!
        I think the large part of what we see of both Egeria and the other queen that worked for Anubis, is an external egg sack/womb. It is not something they "bring with them" into the host, as can be seen when Kelmaa gives her host to Egeria - the egg sack is still in the tank. I have seen it speculated several places that they use "what is already there" when they have a host (female of course), and otherwise grow an egg sack/external womb.

        Regarding Hathor's need for human DNA - she said it was to assure compatibility with the host species, so she would not be the only queen to need that. It probably guarantees that the symbiote doesn't get rejected by the host body, because it is already part human and thus recognized by the body. Neither Egeria, nor Anubis's queen were making symbiotes that were going to live for long in a host - Egerias where used to make medicin and Anubis probably didn't care if only some of the symbiotes survived long enough to control his Kull warriors - which were totally constructed anyway.

        There is also the comment from Klorel about his father, Apophis: "he seeded the queen mother" - so it would seem they cross-breed with the host species to assure the symbiote does not have problems with the immune system of the host?


        Frankly I think the whole Harsesis storyline seems pretty dorky, I don't really get how the symbiote's dna gets involved in the child in the first place. Maybe the writers realized that too so that's why we never hear about it again after the 3rd season. Right up there with being able to sense other goauld/torka/jaffa? that seemed a little dorky too, my sister pointed out that Sam and Caldwell in Atlantis now should be able to sense each other, lol!

        On the other hand, if symbiote DNA does get involved with the offspring, after a few generations, they will have a new race on their hands. There will be humans, jaffa and tokra, who may or may not be able to have children with each other (I still wonder if Jaffa and humans could have children...)

        So... a if a Tok'ra and a human had a kid, that kid wouldn't have any genetic memory, right? (so confused...)
        It is unknown if Jaffa can have children with others - they are genetically engineered, no one knows how much they are changed. I would guess that human/symbiote (in hosts, mind you) would have no problems, given that they already cross-breed when producing symbiotes.

        The genetic memory: Since it is genetic memory, and since they said that the child was only considered a harsesis when he or she had two parents which were hosts, it follows that BOTH symbiotes must provide DNA, otherwise it makes no sense. The thing about the child having all the knowledge of the Goa'uld must be superstition - it could at most get the knowledge from both sides of its parentage, and if the symbiotes were from different queens, then they could get twice as much as an ordinary Goa'uld - something which Apophis apparently coveted.

        This must mean that the child should always get some genetic memory, even if only one parent is a host (namely the memory of that symbiote), so the child of a Tok'ra and a human would get the Tok'ra's memories. Since the Tok'ra are good guys, I wouldn't consider that a problem, but they may want to keep the child away from any Goa'uld which would want to get to the knowledge (of course, they could get much of that by killing the symbiote in a Tok'ra host, and putting a Goa'uld in the poor guy).

        No idea how the DNA from the symbiotes get into the child, but we have been told that both DNA and proteins from the symbiote is flowing around in the blood of the hosts, so perhaps it also goes other places and attaches itself to egg/semen. Who knows.

        I think I will stop my rambling now, as this is already getting much too long

        -Skadi
        Last edited by Skadi; 17 March 2008, 04:32 PM.
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        "Hear this. The days of the Goa'uld System Lords are numbered. Tell them that I died with hope. My death only feeds the fire that burns strong in the Tok'ra." (Jolinar, "In the Line of Duty")

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          #79
          Wow, lots of interesting speculation going on. Here's my thoughts on the whole genetic memory thing...

          Obviously the Goa'uld must have evolved to a point where they needed hosts to survive, so their very being must revolve around that function. They need an easy way to take a host (hence body shape and teeth), a way to be compatible with the host (queen imparting some host DNA to children), a way to keep host from rejecting symbiote (long life and health/control), and some way to use the body of the host when necessary. I would guess that the term "blending" is more literal than we usually think.

          We know they are able to access all the host's memories, and it goes the other way as well, and the influence remains after death of one party. I'd say that the symbiote either uses naquadah or a chemical/neurotransmitter that has a byproduct of naquadah to imprint memory patterns onto the host's neurons as well as to establish a link between their neurons for future interaction. In short, the symbiote acts like an external hard drive on a computer and copies over its information, and then makes it so that both minds are in sync.

          Now, in theory the symbiote could control the body by only interacting with the brain, and any special chemical/neurotransmitter would stay there because of the blood/brain barrier. However, we see that that is not the case, and it makes sense. For a queen to breed, it would need to use the body of the host, and so there would have to be more direct interaction with the body. Hence the naquadah (or whatever it is) that is found in the bodies of those who are or were hosts. The symbiote must put a command in the host's brain that makes the necessary changes, which is why past hosts continue to produce naquadah, and those changes must be necessary for the incubation of newborn symbiotes.

          Okay, now I'll go off on a wild whim to explain the whole harcesis thing, but it's related to my above theories. If the chemical that the symbiote uses to blend the minds of host and symbiote is powerful enough to "copy" memories, and if that chemical is required for the incubation of symbiotes (my theory), then perhaps when the womb is used for the incubation of human children, the chemical "copies" the memories into the mind of the human child because of the link between the other two minds. The symbiote could control what information the symbiote children received, but the human fetus' mind would automatically get the knowledge of host and symbiote because the chemical is designed to blend with humans and "sync" their minds. Does that make sense?

          ~Friendshipping (among others) the two most awesome women of Stargate.
          ~My Stargate fanfic can be found on my Livejournal

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            #80
            I love how nerdy this discussion is going!

            I like all the theories and they all make sense. MerryK I especially like your theory, it helps me with the sensing other naquad things work better in my brain. With that theory, generations of Harsesis children wouldn't cause for increasing amounts of goauld DNA in the human lines, lol! Tho, if the symbiote DNA is pasted to human children, and after a few generations they become their own hybrid race (wasn't there some issues with Sekhemet and being hybrid?), then maybe after a while the hybrids wouldn't be able to take symbiotes anymore. just because they're too Goa'uld. A Goa'uld can't take a Goa'uld as a host, can they? lol! nah, they would probably just become more compatible hosts.

            I love all these different theories... and quite frankly, since I doubt the writers will ever approach the subject again (they might bring back tok'ra, but not to discuss their nature, I don't think), we can probably make up just about whatever we want.

            Well, whether the children have symbiote DNA or not, I still feel like seeing if I could draw hybrid children, lol!

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Skadi View Post
              I start to more and more believe in the 'alternate universe' idea. It is as if something happened to the Tok'ra idea in the writers head, sometime early 4th season, which was totally to the Tok'ra's disadvantage. Does anyone know if there was a change in writers around then?
              Well, according to IMDB, Joseph Mallozzi, Paul Mullie, and Peter DeLuise all start to be credited as writers sometime during the year 2000, which does coincide with the start of season 4, so I guess it could be due to some of these. Ideas and concepts in shows often change - sometimes drastically - when new writers take over. I guess you could explain that in the show-universe as meaning it takes place in two different universes, as it has different "creators".

              I think the large part of what we see of both Egeria and the other queen that worked for Anubis, is an external egg sack/womb. It is not something they "bring with them" into the host, as can be seen when Kelmaa gives her host to Egeria - the egg sack is still in the tank. I have seen it speculated several places that they use "what is already there" when they have a host (female of course), and otherwise grow an egg sack/external womb.

              Regarding Hathor's need for human DNA - she said it was to assure compatibility with the host species, so she would not be the only queen to need that. It probably guarantees that the symbiote doesn't get rejected by the host body, because it is already part human and thus recognized by the body. Neither Egeria, nor Anubis's queen were making symbiotes that were going to live for long in a host - Egerias where used to make medicin and Anubis probably didn't care if only some of the symbiotes survived long enough to control his Kull warriors - which were totally constructed anyway.

              There is also the comment from Klorel about his father, Apophis: "he seeded the queen mother" - so it would seem they cross-breed with the host species to assure the symbiote does not have problems with the immune system of the host?
              This is also what I remember. Hathor says she needs "The code of life"=DNA to incorporate into the symbiotes, for them to easier take a host.

              It is unknown if Jaffa can have children with others - they are genetically engineered, no one knows how much they are changed. I would guess that human/symbiote (in hosts, mind you) would have no problems, given that they already cross-breed when producing symbiotes.

              The genetic memory: Since it is genetic memory, and since they said that the child was only considered a harsesis when he or she had two parents which were hosts, it follows that BOTH symbiotes must provide DNA, otherwise it makes no sense. The thing about the child having all the knowledge of the Goa'uld must be superstition - it could at most get the knowledge from both sides of its parentage, and if the symbiotes were from different queens, then they could get twice as much as an ordinary Goa'uld - something which Apophis apparently coveted.

              This must mean that the child should always get some genetic memory, even if only one parent is a host (namely the memory of that symbiote), so the child of a Tok'ra and a human would get the Tok'ra's memories. Since the Tok'ra are good guys, I wouldn't consider that a problem, but they may want to keep the child away from any Goa'uld which would want to get to the knowledge (of course, they could get much of that by killing the symbiote in a Tok'ra host, and putting a Goa'uld in the poor guy).

              No idea how the DNA from the symbiotes get into the child, but we have been told that both DNA and proteins from the symbiote is flowing around in the blood of the hosts, so perhaps it also goes other places and attaches itself to egg/semen. Who knows.
              Yes, the only way it can make a difference whether it is one or two hosts that are parents, is if the symbiote in the male also somehow transfer DNA. I'm willing to go for the "DNA attaches itself to semen" theory.

              Originally posted by MerryK View Post
              Wow, lots of interesting speculation going on. Here's my thoughts on the whole genetic memory thing...

              Obviously the Goa'uld must have evolved to a point where they needed hosts to survive, so their very being must revolve around that function. They need an easy way to take a host (hence body shape and teeth), a way to be compatible with the host (queen imparting some host DNA to children), a way to keep host from rejecting symbiote (long life and health/control), and some way to use the body of the host when necessary. I would guess that the term "blending" is more literal than we usually think.
              Yes. I agree. They have evolved to be very well suited to blending.

              We know they are able to access all the host's memories, and it goes the other way as well, and the influence remains after death of one party. I'd say that the symbiote either uses naquadah or a chemical/neurotransmitter that has a byproduct of naquadah to imprint memory patterns onto the host's neurons as well as to establish a link between their neurons for future interaction. In short, the symbiote acts like an external hard drive on a computer and copies over its information, and then makes it so that both minds are in sync.

              Now, in theory the symbiote could control the body by only interacting with the brain, and any special chemical/neurotransmitter would stay there because of the blood/brain barrier. However, we see that that is not the case, and it makes sense. For a queen to breed, it would need to use the body of the host, and so there would have to be more direct interaction with the body. Hence the naquadah (or whatever it is) that is found in the bodies of those who are or were hosts. The symbiote must put a command in the host's brain that makes the necessary changes, which is why past hosts continue to produce naquadah, and those changes must be necessary for the incubation of newborn symbiotes.

              Okay, now I'll go off on a wild whim to explain the whole harcesis thing, but it's related to my above theories. If the chemical that the symbiote uses to blend the minds of host and symbiote is powerful enough to "copy" memories, and if that chemical is required for the incubation of symbiotes (my theory), then perhaps when the womb is used for the incubation of human children, the chemical "copies" the memories into the mind of the human child because of the link between the other two minds. The symbiote could control what information the symbiote children received, but the human fetus' mind would automatically get the knowledge of host and symbiote because the chemical is designed to blend with humans and "sync" their minds. Does that make sense?
              I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the naquadah stores anything, mostly because we had the cloned symbiotes in one episode of SG-1 (the ones that were building a ship, but were too young to take control of their hosts while the host was awake, and thus were building at night). These symbiotes DIDN'T have any naquadah (Sam said that was why neither she nor Teal'c could sense them), but they still had all the genetic memory. We have also been told that the reason they can sense each other is that naquadah "resonates" with itself - Hathor could even feel the Stargate all the way to South America!!

              Also, it is not just human children of hosts to queens that get the genetic memory, it is human children of hosts to ordinary symbioted too - and they wouldn't have made any changes to the womb of the host, as only the queen would use it for her larvae.

              I like your idea about why they can control the genetic memory in the symbiote kids, but not in the human kids - that they are designed to sync to humans mind. I think it would work whether it is DNA or naquadah that is the reason. Can queens control the memory of human children? Perhaps it is only ordinary symbiotes who can't? Was Amounet a queen in the sense of producing larvae, or in the royal sense only?

              Originally posted by nebulan View Post
              I love how nerdy this discussion is going!

              I like all the theories and they all make sense. MerryK I especially like your theory, it helps me with the sensing other naquad things work better in my brain. With that theory, generations of Harsesis children wouldn't cause for increasing amounts of goauld DNA in the human lines, lol! Tho, if the symbiote DNA is pasted to human children, and after a few generations they become their own hybrid race (wasn't there some issues with Sekhemet and being hybrid?), then maybe after a while the hybrids wouldn't be able to take symbiotes anymore. just because they're too Goa'uld. A Goa'uld can't take a Goa'uld as a host, can they? lol! nah, they would probably just become more compatible hosts.

              I love all these different theories... and quite frankly, since I doubt the writers will ever approach the subject again (they might bring back tok'ra, but not to discuss their nature, I don't think), we can probably make up just about whatever we want.

              Well, whether the children have symbiote DNA or not, I still feel like seeing if I could draw hybrid children, lol!
              Yes, nerdy is good! I love the nerdiness of this discussion also - and I agree that the writers will most likely never touch on this again, so we can speculate freely and everyone can write what they want, since there is no real canon knowledge in this.

              Given the looks of Shifu, I would go with the kids having symbiote DNA. He didn't look like the human parents, so he must have gotten his looks from somewhere else. Perhaps Apophis has those slanted eyes

              nebulan - do draw some hybrid kids - maybe they have red eyes
              Last edited by Hathor_girl; 18 March 2008, 08:23 AM.
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                #82
                Wow - there is certainly a lot of thought behind these discussions - I like it

                Just one comment; the naquadah in Sam and other former hosts are not produced by the host (or the symbiote for that matter). If it were, then the above mentioned cloned symbiotes would have had naquadah. It is something the symbiotes get from the environment (or the queen put in them more likely) and it then stays there. It also stays in the former hosts, presumably because naquadah is very heavy and have very large molecules which doesn't get excreted from the body, or whatever it is called.

                They said that Sam got the naquadah, because after Jolinar died, her body was absorbed by Sam's body, letting free the naquadah in her blood (and presumably more protein markers and DNA from the symbiote - they say somewhere that there is always some floating around in the body of those that are hosts). This does not totally match with Vala's case, as her symbiote was removed and didn't die in her (I assume).

                I actually read in a real scientific article that we all have foreign DNA floating around in the body - cells from our mother, cells from our children (for women who have been pregnant), from your twin brother/sister if you have one, and from various parasitic infections we may have had (I don't think they were talking about Goa'uld's here ).

                -Skadi
                sigpic
                Smilies made by Roeskva (http://www.tokra.dk/smilies.html)

                "Hear this. The days of the Goa'uld System Lords are numbered. Tell them that I died with hope. My death only feeds the fire that burns strong in the Tok'ra." (Jolinar, "In the Line of Duty")

                Comment


                  #83
                  oooh, interesting theories everyone

                  Originally posted by Skadi View Post
                  I actually read in a real scientific article that we all have foreign DNA floating around in the body - cells from our mother, cells from our children (for women who have been pregnant), from your twin brother/sister if you have one, and from various parasitic infections we may have had (I don't think they were talking about Goa'uld's here ).
                  wow, really? so I might have some of RogueDragon's DNA even if we're not identical (we don't know), weird...

                  But is it really enough for someone like Vala to still use a hand device after she's no longer host for a while? I guess maybe.

                  It just seems like some of these old plot holes have turned into pot holes.

                  Would Human/Goa'uld hybrid children be able to flash their eyes? even if they have red eyes? hehe. what about a deep voice even without being a host?

                  for Amonet, I never thought she was a queen, I mean, Sha're did give birth to a human kid, not a bunch of snakes, but then there's the whole "Klorel is Apophis' son" thing... not really sure how that worked. so... I'm thinking that Klorel's mother was a queen, but not amonet, and it's... ok (by the system lords) for Goa'ulds to mate as long as it's to make baby snakes and not baby humans?

                  ... I feel the need for some pic spam (hehe)




                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Hathor_girl View Post
                    I'm not so sure about that. I don't think the naquadah stores anything, mostly because we had the cloned symbiotes in one episode of SG-1 (the ones that were building a ship, but were too young to take control of their hosts while the host was awake, and thus were building at night). These symbiotes DIDN'T have any naquadah (Sam said that was why neither she nor Teal'c could sense them), but they still had all the genetic memory.

                    Also, it is not just human children of hosts to queens that get the genetic memory, it is human children of hosts to ordinary symbioted too - and they wouldn't have made any changes to the womb of the host, as only the queen would use it for her larvae.
                    I didn't say the naquadah caused anything...I'm pretty sure it's a byproduct of symbiosis. The cloned symbiotes simply had inferior DNA, IMO, so their blending didn't proceed as usual. I also think that the changes to the body chemistry of the host, though primarily for queens to incubate, would also be used for other functions. My theory was that the naquadah was a byproduct of a different chemical that dealt with the memory issues...a chemical that would leave no trace.

                    Originally posted by Skadi View Post
                    Just one comment; the naquadah in Sam and other former hosts are not produced by the host (or the symbiote for that matter). If it were, then the above mentioned cloned symbiotes would have had naquadah. It is something the symbiotes get from the environment (or the queen put in them more likely) and it then stays there. It also stays in the former hosts, presumably because naquadah is very heavy and have very large molecules which doesn't get excreted from the body, or whatever it is called.

                    They said that Sam got the naquadah, because after Jolinar died, her body was absorbed by Sam's body, letting free the naquadah in her blood (and presumably more protein markers and DNA from the symbiote - they say somewhere that there is always some floating around in the body of those that are hosts). This does not totally match with Vala's case, as her symbiote was removed and didn't die in her (I assume).
                    I don't treat the cloned symbiotes in Frozen as good examples of traditional symbiotes. I always assumed that, apart from being young, there were also errors in the DNA that made the blending go screwy. And since all previous hosts still retain the bodily chemistry changes, and since no one seems to think of them as fixable, I'd say that they were serious changes that occur because of blending. If the naquadah was simply floating around, it could be leeched like other heavy metals.

                    ~Friendshipping (among others) the two most awesome women of Stargate.
                    ~My Stargate fanfic can be found on my Livejournal

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by nebulan View Post
                      for Amonet, I never thought she was a queen, I mean, Sha're did give birth to a human kid, not a bunch of snakes, but then there's the whole "Klorel is Apophis' son" thing... not really sure how that worked. so... I'm thinking that Klorel's mother was a queen, but not amonet, and it's... ok (by the system lords) for Goa'ulds to mate as long as it's to make baby snakes and not baby humans?
                      Nice pic spam - lots of Tok'ra! Thank you.

                      I agree that Amounet probably was only a "royal" queen, and that Apophis had Klorel with someone else - also because Amounet was still in a Jaffa pouch, and they can't be there when they are adults, so she wouldn't have been able to go back there if she lost her host or something.
                      Apophis seemed fond of her, though, so they must have "dated" for a while - must be strange to do when one of them is sitting inside the Jaffa, but probably the Goa'uld don't care if the Jaffa listens to them talking.

                      Originally posted by MerryK View Post
                      I didn't say the naquadah caused anything...I'm pretty sure it's a byproduct of symbiosis. The cloned symbiotes simply had inferior DNA, IMO, so their blending didn't proceed as usual. I also think that the changes to the body chemistry of the host, though primarily for queens to incubate, would also be used for other functions. My theory was that the naquadah was a byproduct of a different chemical that dealt with the memory issues...a chemical that would leave no trace.

                      I don't treat the cloned symbiotes in Frozen as good examples of traditional symbiotes. I always assumed that, apart from being young, there were also errors in the DNA that made the blending go screwy. And since all previous hosts still retain the bodily chemistry changes, and since no one seems to think of them as fixable, I'd say that they were serious changes that occur because of blending. If the naquadah was simply floating around, it could be leeched like other heavy metals.
                      I certainly agree that the body chemistry is probably altered permanently in a current/former host - I even think they sometimes mentioned this about Sam. However, even if the cloned symbiotes were somehow defective, they were not the only ones not to produce naquadah:

                      (From 'The First Ones')
                      Spoiler:

                      TEAL'C: These waters abound with them. Any one who have ventured to the edge has put them selves at risk.
                      ROTHMAN: No, the Goa'Uld fossils we found are millions of years old. I've been on this planet for weeks.
                      TEAL'C: Then perhaps you maintained the pretence of being human.
                      ROTHMAN: I think I would know if there was a snake in my head!
                      JACK: Carter?
                      SAM: I can't explain it, Sir. I don't even sense the ones that are in the water.
                      ROTHMAN: Daniel & I found no traces of Naquadah in the symbiote fossil. Maybe that's why -


                      So they didn't have the naquadah at first, but got it later (OK, that doesn't prove anything, since there may have been time to evolve after they left that world).

                      Something which would speak in favor of the naquadah being produced in the body is that in the episode "In the Line of Fire", we are told that Cassandra still has "traces" of naquadah left which lets her sense Jolinar. And Cassandra was never a host, she only had the naquadah placed in her by Nirrti.

                      However - given that naquadah is a heavy metal - and in the Stargate universe a very real one that can be mined - it can not be produced in the body of anyone - human or symbiote. To produce a heaver element from a lighter one takes fusion - and enormously high pressure/temperature. Something in the former hosts body must hold unto it when it has been introduced, just as something in the symbiotes body holds unto it. That could be the change that is made in the host and has evolved in the symbiotes. Probably they keep most of what they have and a little leeches out into the hosts blood and stays there because of changes to the host. The blending must be a very thorough one and there must be blood contact at least through thin veins or something, like between the blood of a fetus and its mother - simply because the symbiote needs to get water, nutrients, and oxygen and get rid of waste matter.

                      The queens must take some naquadah from the environment and use when she produces the larvae - just as the human body must get iron etc. from the environment.

                      This discussion is getting even more nerdy

                      -Skadi
                      sigpic
                      Smilies made by Roeskva (http://www.tokra.dk/smilies.html)

                      "Hear this. The days of the Goa'uld System Lords are numbered. Tell them that I died with hope. My death only feeds the fire that burns strong in the Tok'ra." (Jolinar, "In the Line of Duty")

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Skadi View Post
                        I actually read in a real scientific article that we all have foreign DNA floating around in the body - cells from our mother, cells from our children (for women who have been pregnant), from your twin brother/sister if you have one, and from various parasitic infections we may have had (I don't think they were talking about Goa'uld's here ).

                        -Skadi
                        That's interesting

                        Originally posted by nebulan View Post
                        oooh, interesting theories everyone



                        wow, really? so I might have some of RogueDragon's DNA even if we're not identical (we don't know), weird...

                        But is it really enough for someone like Vala to still use a hand device after she's no longer host for a while? I guess maybe.

                        It just seems like some of these old plot holes have turned into pot holes.

                        Would Human/Goa'uld hybrid children be able to flash their eyes? even if they have red eyes? hehe. what about a deep voice even without being a host?

                        for Amonet, I never thought she was a queen, I mean, Sha're did give birth to a human kid, not a bunch of snakes, but then there's the whole "Klorel is Apophis' son" thing... not really sure how that worked. so... I'm thinking that Klorel's mother was a queen, but not amonet, and it's... ok (by the system lords) for Goa'ulds to mate as long as it's to make baby snakes and not baby humans?

                        ... I feel the need for some pic spam (hehe)




                        nebulan, you and RogueDragon are twins? Nice!

                        Thanks for the pic spam - wonderful Tok'ra. I like the pic of Kelmaa looking at her mom.

                        Yeah, that's what I thought (about Amounet), she must have been a newly matured symbiote since she was in a Jaffa pouch.
                        sigpic

                        [Save Martouf/Lantash in the movies!] | My fics on Fanfiction.net | My fics on Symbiotica

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Nice pic spam, nebulan!

                          -Snotr
                          sigpic Avatar, and icons in sig by Luciana

                          Favorite love-dodecagon:
                          (See http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=2238)
                          Lantash/Jolinar/Martouf/Sam/Thor/Jack/Kanan/Tea'lc/Junior/Freya/Daniel/Anise

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Skadi View Post
                            However - given that naquadah is a heavy metal - and in the Stargate universe a very real one that can be mined - it can not be produced in the body of anyone - human or symbiote. To produce a heaver element from a lighter one takes fusion - and enormously high pressure/temperature.

                            This discussion is getting even more nerdy
                            Oh darn, you've got me there! It does make way more sense that the symbiote takes the naquadah from the environment when you put it like that.

                            And yeah, nerdy.

                            ~Friendshipping (among others) the two most awesome women of Stargate.
                            ~My Stargate fanfic can be found on my Livejournal

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Just found this (somewhat entertaining) quiz:

                              http://www.quizilla.com/users/Ribbon...%20are%20you?/

                              Answer the questions and it tells you which Tok'ra you are. I don't think they have coded more than a few possibilities, though.

                              -Skadi
                              sigpic
                              Smilies made by Roeskva (http://www.tokra.dk/smilies.html)

                              "Hear this. The days of the Goa'uld System Lords are numbered. Tell them that I died with hope. My death only feeds the fire that burns strong in the Tok'ra." (Jolinar, "In the Line of Duty")

                              Comment


                                #90
                                I got this result:


                                You are Jacob/Selmak. You get to be the Tok'ra most loved by the Tauri, reasons obvious. You know that being a tok'ra is quite difficult, but always try to find a fair point between the point of view of the tok'ra and the tauri. Not always an easy job!


                                What about you, Skadi?

                                -Snotr
                                sigpic Avatar, and icons in sig by Luciana

                                Favorite love-dodecagon:
                                (See http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=2238)
                                Lantash/Jolinar/Martouf/Sam/Thor/Jack/Kanan/Tea'lc/Junior/Freya/Daniel/Anise

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