View Poll Results: Who is your favorite Tok'ra?

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  • Aldwin

    1 1.09%
  • Anise/Freya

    5 5.43%
  • Delek

    1 1.09%
  • Garshaw of Belote/Yosuuf

    0 0%
  • Jalen

    2 2.17%
  • Jolinar of Malkshur

    3 3.26%
  • Kanan

    1 1.09%
  • Kelmaa

    0 0%
  • Khonsu, Lord of Amon Shek

    0 0%
  • Korra

    0 0%
  • Lantash/Martouf

    34 36.96%
  • Malek

    4 4.35%
  • Ocker

    0 0%
  • Per'sus

    1 1.09%
  • Dr. Raully

    0 0%
  • Ren'al

    0 0%
  • Selmak/Jacob Carter

    39 42.39%
  • Sina

    0 0%
  • Ta'seem

    0 0%
  • Thoran

    0 0%
  • Zarin

    0 0%
  • Other Tok'ra, not named

    1 1.09%
  • Egeria

    0 0%
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  1. #61
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Heart Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snotr View Post

    Hehe. Thought of something else as a result of all this. It's partly a question, partly a joke, partly just something I pondered...and totally ridiculous, I guess

    Given that we have:

    1) Symbiote and host love as one/feel the same
    2) Lantash loves Sam

    What would happen if Lantash had blended with Sam in Last Stand/Summit? Would she fall in love with herself?

    Furthermore. Let's assume Sam loves Lantash and Martouf. Would he then fall in love with himself?

    - and just to make it even more confusing; lets assume Lantash had only left Martouf temporarily, to let them both heal up after the zatarc incident (we're now in a universe where they survived), and Lantash blends with Sam for a while, making them feel the same. Will Martouf then fall in love with himself the moment he reblends with Lantash?

    Don't mind me...I'm just being silly

    -Snotr
    You're funny, Snotr! I never got further than to the thought that if Lantash blended with Sam, then she might fall in love with herself...no idea what would really happen, but taking it literally, the above should be the logical conclusion Though - I'm guessing they wouldn't all end up in love with themselves (aside from each other, of course), even if that would make for a hilarious story.

    -Skadi

  2. #62
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    On the subject of a Tok'ra harsesis, they proved when they found their Queen that passing on the genetic info is a decision. So the hosts could have kids and when they are old enough they can choose to blend.
    Then there's the thing of raising a kid while being hunted by the Goa'uld, and if captured the kids would be subject to torture or forced to be a host for the Goa'uld to take the information.
    On that thought, they probably were firstly against having kids, too dangerous for all.
    O'Neill: "Ah. Trees, trees and more trees! What a wonderfully green universe we live in, eh."

    Season 3 Episode 8 - Demons

  3. #63
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    You're funny, Snotr! I never got further than to the thought that if Lantash blended with Sam, then she might fall in love with herself...no idea what would really happen, but taking it literally, the above should be the logical conclusion Though - I'm guessing they wouldn't all end up in love with themselves (aside from each other, of course), even if that would make for a hilarious story.

    -Skadi
    Actually, I don't think it's quite that simple. The way they talk about blending, it seems like it takes a while—after all, Sam didn't blend with Jolinar completely, but she did have some residual feelings that influenced her. I would say it takes a while for the full blending of minds to occur, and even longer for true blending of spirits where they experience the same emotions.

    As for the scenario, then, there'd definitely be some strange emotions going on in Sam's head if she had Lantash, but I think he'd hold back from true blending simply for that very reason. If he ever had to take Sam because there was no other option, I don't see either of them wanting it to be more than a slight, temporary blending.

  4. #64
    Major Snotr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
    On the subject of a Tok'ra harsesis, they proved when they found their Queen that passing on the genetic info is a decision. So the hosts could have kids and when they are old enough they can choose to blend.
    Then there's the thing of raising a kid while being hunted by the Goa'uld, and if captured the kids would be subject to torture or forced to be a host for the Goa'uld to take the information.
    On that thought, they probably were firstly against having kids, too dangerous for all.
    Maybe, some probably did from time to time anyway. Now, though, there is not so much danger from the Goa'uld, so they should be able to 'settle down' a bit, and get some kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by MerryK View Post
    Actually, I don't think it's quite that simple. The way they talk about blending, it seems like it takes a while—after all, Sam didn't blend with Jolinar completely, but she did have some residual feelings that influenced her. I would say it takes a while for the full blending of minds to occur, and even longer for true blending of spirits where they experience the same emotions.

    As for the scenario, then, there'd definitely be some strange emotions going on in Sam's head if she had Lantash, but I think he'd hold back from true blending simply for that very reason. If he ever had to take Sam because there was no other option, I don't see either of them wanting it to be more than a slight, temporary blending.
    You are probably right that they need to do a full blending before they sync their emotions, and that it likely takes a while even after the full blending - my ideas were also mostly in jest

    We did see with Kanaan that they can do only a partial blending with not much sharing, which I think is also what Jolinar did with Sam, as she expected to leave her again. The difference was that Kanaan also blocked Jack from the majority of things, which I don't think Jolinar did (with the exception of some of the pain from the ashrak's hara'kesh probably, if she had the strength. Jolinar then was killed and could probably not stop lots or all of her memories and emotions from flowing over into Sam, jumbled.

    -Snotr

  5. #65
    Lieutenant Colonel Hathor_girl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Regarding the full blending; I assume this is something only Tok'ra do, as they want the fully symbiotic relationship, leading to sharing of emotions and everything. The Goa'uld probably DON'T do a full blending, so the host don't necessarily feel anything for any mate the Goa'uld takes, and (if 'de-hosted') will not retain nearly as many memories. What do you think?

  6. #66
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hathor_girl View Post
    Regarding the full blending; I assume this is something only Tok'ra do, as they want the fully symbiotic relationship, leading to sharing of emotions and everything. The Goa'uld probably DON'T do a full blending, so the host don't necessarily feel anything for any mate the Goa'uld takes, and (if 'de-hosted') will not retain nearly as many memories. What do you think?
    Probably, the Goa'uld would not want to share anything with the host, since they only consider it something to be used, like...a set of clothing, maybe? Thus, the host would not get the Goa'uld's feelings, knowledge, or memories from before the blending - though Vala seem to at least subconsiously have access to some memories, maybe just those acquired during the time she was host?

    -Skadi

  7. #67
    Major General nebulan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    Probably, the Goa'uld would not want to share anything with the host, since they only consider it something to be used, like...a set of clothing, maybe? Thus, the host would not get the Goa'uld's feelings, knowledge, or memories from before the blending - though Vala seem to at least subconsiously have access to some memories, maybe just those acquired during the time she was host?

    -Skadi
    I agree, I was thinking about that myself. That's probably the reason that a Goa'uld can be removed from a host and keep the host alive (ala Skaara and Sarah Gardner), they don't fully blend. But they do partially. Maybe Qetesh blended more than others? but not enough that she couldn't be removed without hurting Vala. I'm thinking that might also explain Amaunet, maybe she let herself blend with Sha're a little too much which might explain her reaction in "Secrets". But it's too dangerous for a Goa'uld to become too blended with their host, the last thing they need is to start developing feelings for their enemy humans, lol! which is probably why Amaunet reacted by trying to kill Daniel in "Forever in a Day".

    But yeah, I think that since the Goa'uld aren't as much a threat anymore and the Ori aren't gonna be hunting them specifically over other humans (I haven't seen Ark of Truth yet, I'm not sure how things are resolved there). So some of them should totally settle down and start replenishing their population, lol! I wonder if Jolinar/Rosha and Martouf/Lantash wanted to have kids but knew it was too much of a bad idea?

  8. #68
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nebulan View Post
    I agree, I was thinking about that myself. That's probably the reason that a Goa'uld can be removed from a host and keep the host alive (ala Skaara and Sarah Gardner), they don't fully blend. But they do partially. Maybe Qetesh blended more than others? but not enough that she couldn't be removed without hurting Vala. I'm thinking that might also explain Amaunet, maybe she let herself blend with Sha're a little too much which might explain her reaction in "Secrets". But it's too dangerous for a Goa'uld to become too blended with their host, the last thing they need is to start developing feelings for their enemy humans, lol! which is probably why Amaunet reacted by trying to kill Daniel in "Forever in a Day".

    But yeah, I think that since the Goa'uld aren't as much a threat anymore and the Ori aren't gonna be hunting them specifically over other humans (I haven't seen Ark of Truth yet, I'm not sure how things are resolved there). So some of them should totally settle down and start replenishing their population, lol! I wonder if Jolinar/Rosha and Martouf/Lantash wanted to have kids but knew it was too much of a bad idea?
    Yes, there is the "I can't just cure you and leave you - to do that would probably kill us both" which Selmak says to Jacob, before they blend. That Jolinar says she would try to leave Sam, but that it would be dangerous, I take as proof that she didn't blend as fully with Sam as Tok'ra normally do, simply because she expected to maybe have to leave again.

    About the Tok'ra children - technically we don't KNOW that the Tok'ra don't have a whole bunch of them off on some safe world - perhaps Rosha/Jolinar and Martouf/Lantash (and other couples - quadrouples? like them) already has produced several potential future hosts, but since the Tok'ra know the Goa'uld would be out to get them, they didn't even tell their allies about them.

    -Skadi

  9. #69
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    I don't see the Tok'ra as the sorts to have children...they're very focused in their goal of defeating the Goa'uld and all personal relationships are on the side, so I don't see them committing to having children, especially with no more symbiotes for them. Who would want to watch their children die while they lived on for centuries?

  10. #70
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    I don't see those two things as mutually exclusive - they could do both, especially since they seem to be somewhat communal - there would always be someone to take care of the children. Besides, it would get them some of the hosts they need, and they do need hosts, since they said that the symbiotes often died with the host because a new host could not be found.

    Another thing is that the children would inherit two of their parents genetic memory (they would have four parents, two human, two symbiotes - since the memory is genetic memory, the symbiotes must somehow also provide some DNA to the the children) and thus want to fight the Goa'uld, just like the symbiotes - they would grow up to be useful members of the resistance.

    I just thought of something. Looking at Shifu (son of Sha're/Amounet and Apophis/Apophis's host), I wonder if the DNA which gives the harsesis the genetic memory also made him inherit other traits. He doesn't look remotely like his human parents, so I am starting to think he also inherited much of his looks etc. from Amounet/Apophis (how fortunate that most of that manifested itself differently in a human than in a symbiote, or he would have looked...odd)

    -Skadi

  11. #71
    Major Snotr's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    I don't see those two things as mutually exclusive - they could do both, especially since they seem to be somewhat communal - there would always be someone to take care of the children. Besides, it would get them some of the hosts they need, and they do need hosts, since they said that the symbiotes often died with the host because a new host could not be found.

    Another thing is that the children would inherit two of their parents genetic memory (they would have four parents, two human, two symbiotes - since the memory is genetic memory, the symbiotes must somehow also provide some DNA to the the children) and thus want to fight the Goa'uld, just like the symbiotes - they would grow up to be useful members of the resistance.

    I just thought of something. Looking at Shifu (son of Sha're/Amounet and Apophis/Apophis's host), I wonder if the DNA which gives the harsesis the genetic memory also made him inherit other traits. He doesn't look remotely like his human parents, so I am starting to think he also inherited much of his looks etc. from Amounet/Apophis (how fortunate that most of that manifested itself differently in a human than in a symbiote, or he would have looked...odd)

    -Skadi
    Yes, there is the genetic memory - the kids probably would wish to join the Tok'ra - and get a symbiote, both because of the memories and because they would have grown up with the Tok'ra, certainly thinking of them as good guys and in no way fearing them. They would want to be part of their fight.

    Shifu...(googles for pic of him, Sha're, and Apophis). Yes, you're right. Either Amaunet or Apophis obviously has dominant genes, because he doesn't resemble either of the hosts I agree - good thing he didn't get fins or something

    -Snotr

  12. #72
    Major General nebulan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    About the Tok'ra children - technically we don't KNOW that the Tok'ra don't have a whole bunch of them off on some safe world - perhaps Rosha/Jolinar and Martouf/Lantash (and other couples - quadrouples? like them) already has produced several potential future hosts, but since the Tok'ra know the Goa'uld would be out to get them, they didn't even tell their allies about them.
    sounds like a fic in the works

    Do they have a shortage of hosts or symbiotes??

    Hey, you might remember I mentioned that my sg1 mary sue would be a nerdy techy from the SGC who joins the Tokra because she thinks they're cool? I drew a picture of her

    http://nebulan.deviantart.com/art/My...y-Sue-80199789

    *finally adds thread to subscription list*

  13. #73
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebulan View Post
    sounds like a fic in the works

    Do they have a shortage of hosts or symbiotes??

    Hey, you might remember I mentioned that my sg1 mary sue would be a nerdy techy from the SGC who joins the Tokra because she thinks they're cool? I drew a picture of her

    http://nebulan.deviantart.com/art/My...y-Sue-80199789

    *finally adds thread to subscription list*
    If I could write, then I would like to make that plot bunny into a story, yes. I hope someone else will?

    They probably still have a shortage of hosts, but after all the Tok'ra that has been killed lately, they probably don't have that many symbiotes either. But they originally said in Tok'ra I:


    Spoiler:
    MARTOUF: That's why our numbers don't grow large enough to defeat the massive forces aligned with System Lords.
    SAM: Zero or negative population growth. Since you won't take new hosts by force, most of the time the Goa'uld dies with the host.
    YOSUF: And this is what is about to happen to Selmak.
    MARTOUF: Unless one of you wishes to volunteer to serve as a host.


    Sounds as if they had a queen at that point. Maybe that's something the writers forgot/changed later. Also - a bit inconsiderate of Sam to say Goa'uld, but neither Yosuuf or Martouf complains - probably they know she is a bit confused as to the difference still?

    nebulan - I looked at your picture. It's great! You are good at drawing. I like your idea with 'human + symbiote = Tok'ra' - it's cute.

    -Skadi

  14. #74
    Major Snotr's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Sort of a continuation of the harsesis discussion. Just a strange thought I had yesterday, bear with me - if the children of two hosts receive some percentage of their DNA from the symbiotes, would it then be possible to eventually get symbiotes?
    Say, if you put symbiotes in the harsesis'es and again in their children and so on for a long time - would the offspring eventually be mostly symbiotes? If that is the case then maybe the Tok'ra could get more symbiotes that way (I realise that unless the offspring looks human until a certain percentage of the DNA is symbiote-DNA, and looks symbiote after that, you would get some in-between-forms that are kinda funky looking, but lets ignore that for now).

    I now see a family reunion with both human-looking and symbiote-looking attendees - and one of the humans presenting a symbiote as his cousin or something... Yes, I'm weird, I know...it just made me laugh.

    -Snotr

  15. #75
    Henrietta CaptJanson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nebulan View Post
    sounds like a fic in the works

    Do they have a shortage of hosts or symbiotes??

    Hey, you might remember I mentioned that my sg1 mary sue would be a nerdy techy from the SGC who joins the Tokra because she thinks they're cool? I drew a picture of her

    http://nebulan.deviantart.com/art/My...y-Sue-80199789

    *finally adds thread to subscription list*
    Hey - nice pic nebulan. I especially like the symbiote - it actually looks cute

    Quote Originally Posted by Snotr View Post
    Sort of a continuation of the harsesis discussion. Just a strange thought I had yesterday, bear with me - if the children of two hosts receive some percentage of their DNA from the symbiotes, would it then be possible to eventually get symbiotes?
    Say, if you put symbiotes in the harsesis'es and again in their children and so on for a long time - would the offspring eventually be mostly symbiotes? If that is the case then maybe the Tok'ra could get more symbiotes that way (I realise that unless the offspring looks human until a certain percentage of the DNA is symbiote-DNA, and looks symbiote after that, you would get some in-between-forms that are kinda funky looking, but lets ignore that for now).

    I now see a family reunion with both human-looking and symbiote-looking attendees - and one of the humans presenting a symbiote as his cousin or something... Yes, I'm weird, I know...it just made me laugh.

    -Snotr
    That is...slightly disturbing *lol* - but it might work. As long as it's like you said, with the kids looking human until a certain percentage is symbiote, and then looking symbiote, then I don't think it would be a problem for anyone, and it might solve the shortage of Tok'ra. I wonder if somehow they could get a queen this way?

    Do we know why some symbiotes become queens?
    Is it genetic (like for humans - dependent on chromosomes), or environmental (because of temperature/feed/hormones/etc. like for many reptiles, amphibians, fish, and insects), or something else entirely? Can the queen control how many larvae becomes queens or is it random?

  16. #76
    Lieutenant Colonel Hathor_girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptJanson View Post
    That is...slightly disturbing *lol* - but it might work. As long as it's like you said, with the kids looking human until a certain percentage is symbiote, and then looking symbiote, then I don't think it would be a problem for anyone, and it might solve the shortage of Tok'ra. I wonder if somehow they could get a queen this way?

    Do we know why some symbiotes become queens?
    Is it genetic (like for humans - dependent on chromosomes), or environmental (because of temperature/feed/hormones/etc. like for many reptiles, amphibians, fish, and insects), or something else entirely? Can the queen control how many larvae becomes queens or is it random?
    Actually an interesting idea, to get symbiotes that way, though you would either have to continue doing that or somehow get one that is a queen. That would be preferrably.

    I don't think there has been any mentioning of how symbiotes become/are born queens. The one about them being dependent on environmental factors during development could possibly lead to a plot bunny, though it seems reasonable that a symbiote queen can control how many daughters she gets, given that they can control just about everything else in their kids.

  17. #77
    Major General nebulan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    nebulan - I looked at your picture. It's great! You are good at drawing. I like your idea with 'human + symbiote = Tok'ra' - it's cute.
    Thanks I wanted to draw what she looked like before becoming a host, so it was a fun excuse to draw the snake while I was at it, hehe.

    CaptJanson, thanks of course symbiotes are cute!!


    (made by my sister)

    Wow, I really wish we knew if there could be more queens, otherwise the tok'ra might become just a cause instead of a race in a few millenniums.

    Lets see, the only queens we know of, Hathor, who apparently needed human dna?? Egeria, of course, and then the queen in "Evolution". other than that, we know very little about them, don't we? like... how exactly does that big thing even fit inside a human! lol!

    Frankly I think the whole Harsesis storyline seems pretty dorky, I don't really get how the symbiote's dna gets involved in the child in the first place. Maybe the writers realized that too so that's why we never hear about it again after the 3rd season. Right up there with being able to sense other goauld/torka/jaffa? that seemed a little dorky too, my sister pointed out that Sam and Caldwell in Atlantis now should be able to sense each other, lol!

    On the other hand, if symbiote DNA does get involved with the offspring, after a few generations, they will have a new race on their hands. There will be humans, jaffa and tokra, who may or may not be able to have children with each other (I still wonder if Jaffa and humans could have children...)

    So... a if a Tok'ra and a human had a kid, that kid wouldn't have any genetic memory, right? (so confused...)
    Last edited by nebulan; March 17th, 2008 at 03:16 PM.

  18. #78
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathor_girl View Post
    Actually an interesting idea, to get symbiotes that way, though you would either have to continue doing that or somehow get one that is a queen. That would be preferrably.

    I don't think there has been any mentioning of how symbiotes become/are born queens. The one about them being dependent on environmental factors during development could possibly lead to a plot bunny, though it seems reasonable that a symbiote queen can control how many daughters she gets, given that they can control just about everything else in their kids.
    Yes, given their total control of their kids DNA and memories, I would have to agree that they should be able to control how many daughters they have - which leads to the question of why the Tok'ra don't have a couple of queens - Egeria certainly should have thought of that. That is also what they seem to hint in the first Tok'ra episodes, that they do have queen(s) and just need hosts to grow in numbers. Apparently the writers decided to change that in the episode 'Cure', probably for dramatic reasons. It is so much more tragic to kill off Egeria when she is all that stands between the Tok'ra being a dying race and a viable one.

    I start to more and more believe in the 'alternate universe' idea. It is as if something happened to the Tok'ra idea in the writers head, sometime early 4th season, which was totally to the Tok'ra's disadvantage. Does anyone know if there was a change in writers around then?


    Quote Originally Posted by nebulan View Post
    Thanks I wanted to draw what she looked like before becoming a host, so it was a fun excuse to draw the snake while I was at it, hehe.

    CaptJanson, thanks of course symbiotes are cute!!


    (made by my sister)
    That one is cute too - yes, I agree, of course symbiotes are cute

    Wow, I really wish we knew if there could be more queens, otherwise the tok'ra might become just a cause instead of a race in a few millenniums.

    Lets see, the only queens we know of, Hathor, who apparently needed human dna?? Egeria, of course, and then the queen in "Evolution". other than that, we know very little about them, don't we? like... how exactly does that big thing even fit inside a human! lol!
    I think the large part of what we see of both Egeria and the other queen that worked for Anubis, is an external egg sack/womb. It is not something they "bring with them" into the host, as can be seen when Kelmaa gives her host to Egeria - the egg sack is still in the tank. I have seen it speculated several places that they use "what is already there" when they have a host (female of course), and otherwise grow an egg sack/external womb.

    Regarding Hathor's need for human DNA - she said it was to assure compatibility with the host species, so she would not be the only queen to need that. It probably guarantees that the symbiote doesn't get rejected by the host body, because it is already part human and thus recognized by the body. Neither Egeria, nor Anubis's queen were making symbiotes that were going to live for long in a host - Egerias where used to make medicin and Anubis probably didn't care if only some of the symbiotes survived long enough to control his Kull warriors - which were totally constructed anyway.

    There is also the comment from Klorel about his father, Apophis: "he seeded the queen mother" - so it would seem they cross-breed with the host species to assure the symbiote does not have problems with the immune system of the host?


    Frankly I think the whole Harsesis storyline seems pretty dorky, I don't really get how the symbiote's dna gets involved in the child in the first place. Maybe the writers realized that too so that's why we never hear about it again after the 3rd season. Right up there with being able to sense other goauld/torka/jaffa? that seemed a little dorky too, my sister pointed out that Sam and Caldwell in Atlantis now should be able to sense each other, lol!

    On the other hand, if symbiote DNA does get involved with the offspring, after a few generations, they will have a new race on their hands. There will be humans, jaffa and tokra, who may or may not be able to have children with each other (I still wonder if Jaffa and humans could have children...)

    So... a if a Tok'ra and a human had a kid, that kid wouldn't have any genetic memory, right? (so confused...)
    It is unknown if Jaffa can have children with others - they are genetically engineered, no one knows how much they are changed. I would guess that human/symbiote (in hosts, mind you) would have no problems, given that they already cross-breed when producing symbiotes.

    The genetic memory: Since it is genetic memory, and since they said that the child was only considered a harsesis when he or she had two parents which were hosts, it follows that BOTH symbiotes must provide DNA, otherwise it makes no sense. The thing about the child having all the knowledge of the Goa'uld must be superstition - it could at most get the knowledge from both sides of its parentage, and if the symbiotes were from different queens, then they could get twice as much as an ordinary Goa'uld - something which Apophis apparently coveted.

    This must mean that the child should always get some genetic memory, even if only one parent is a host (namely the memory of that symbiote), so the child of a Tok'ra and a human would get the Tok'ra's memories. Since the Tok'ra are good guys, I wouldn't consider that a problem, but they may want to keep the child away from any Goa'uld which would want to get to the knowledge (of course, they could get much of that by killing the symbiote in a Tok'ra host, and putting a Goa'uld in the poor guy).

    No idea how the DNA from the symbiotes get into the child, but we have been told that both DNA and proteins from the symbiote is flowing around in the blood of the hosts, so perhaps it also goes other places and attaches itself to egg/semen. Who knows.

    I think I will stop my rambling now, as this is already getting much too long

    -Skadi
    Last edited by Skadi; March 17th, 2008 at 04:32 PM.

  19. #79
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Wow, lots of interesting speculation going on. Here's my thoughts on the whole genetic memory thing...

    Obviously the Goa'uld must have evolved to a point where they needed hosts to survive, so their very being must revolve around that function. They need an easy way to take a host (hence body shape and teeth), a way to be compatible with the host (queen imparting some host DNA to children), a way to keep host from rejecting symbiote (long life and health/control), and some way to use the body of the host when necessary. I would guess that the term "blending" is more literal than we usually think.

    We know they are able to access all the host's memories, and it goes the other way as well, and the influence remains after death of one party. I'd say that the symbiote either uses naquadah or a chemical/neurotransmitter that has a byproduct of naquadah to imprint memory patterns onto the host's neurons as well as to establish a link between their neurons for future interaction. In short, the symbiote acts like an external hard drive on a computer and copies over its information, and then makes it so that both minds are in sync.

    Now, in theory the symbiote could control the body by only interacting with the brain, and any special chemical/neurotransmitter would stay there because of the blood/brain barrier. However, we see that that is not the case, and it makes sense. For a queen to breed, it would need to use the body of the host, and so there would have to be more direct interaction with the body. Hence the naquadah (or whatever it is) that is found in the bodies of those who are or were hosts. The symbiote must put a command in the host's brain that makes the necessary changes, which is why past hosts continue to produce naquadah, and those changes must be necessary for the incubation of newborn symbiotes.

    Okay, now I'll go off on a wild whim to explain the whole harcesis thing, but it's related to my above theories. If the chemical that the symbiote uses to blend the minds of host and symbiote is powerful enough to "copy" memories, and if that chemical is required for the incubation of symbiotes (my theory), then perhaps when the womb is used for the incubation of human children, the chemical "copies" the memories into the mind of the human child because of the link between the other two minds. The symbiote could control what information the symbiote children received, but the human fetus' mind would automatically get the knowledge of host and symbiote because the chemical is designed to blend with humans and "sync" their minds. Does that make sense?

  20. #80
    Major General nebulan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    I love how nerdy this discussion is going!

    I like all the theories and they all make sense. MerryK I especially like your theory, it helps me with the sensing other naquad things work better in my brain. With that theory, generations of Harsesis children wouldn't cause for increasing amounts of goauld DNA in the human lines, lol! Tho, if the symbiote DNA is pasted to human children, and after a few generations they become their own hybrid race (wasn't there some issues with Sekhemet and being hybrid?), then maybe after a while the hybrids wouldn't be able to take symbiotes anymore. just because they're too Goa'uld. A Goa'uld can't take a Goa'uld as a host, can they? lol! nah, they would probably just become more compatible hosts.

    I love all these different theories... and quite frankly, since I doubt the writers will ever approach the subject again (they might bring back tok'ra, but not to discuss their nature, I don't think), we can probably make up just about whatever we want.

    Well, whether the children have symbiote DNA or not, I still feel like seeing if I could draw hybrid children, lol!

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