View Poll Results: Who is your favorite Tok'ra?

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  • Aldwin

    1 1.09%
  • Anise/Freya

    5 5.43%
  • Delek

    1 1.09%
  • Garshaw of Belote/Yosuuf

    0 0%
  • Jalen

    2 2.17%
  • Jolinar of Malkshur

    3 3.26%
  • Kanan

    1 1.09%
  • Kelmaa

    0 0%
  • Khonsu, Lord of Amon Shek

    0 0%
  • Korra

    0 0%
  • Lantash/Martouf

    34 36.96%
  • Malek

    4 4.35%
  • Ocker

    0 0%
  • Per'sus

    1 1.09%
  • Dr. Raully

    0 0%
  • Ren'al

    0 0%
  • Selmak/Jacob Carter

    39 42.39%
  • Sina

    0 0%
  • Ta'seem

    0 0%
  • Thoran

    0 0%
  • Zarin

    0 0%
  • Other Tok'ra, not named

    1 1.09%
  • Egeria

    0 0%
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  1. #41
    Captain Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    I really love the Tok'ra, I've never really seen any bad in them, plus they really put in an effort to put up with the Tau'ri and help as well as protect them.

    I think if Earth wasn't so, tell us when, where, why all of you are at every second the Goa'uld would have been defeated sooner.

    My favorite Tok'ra is Malak, I really like his character and he was up for changing his sight of the Jaffa in less than a day. Plus there was just something about him. I wish they would have kept up with him.
    Last edited by Tiger; March 7th, 2008 at 12:06 PM.
    O'Neill: "Ah. Trees, trees and more trees! What a wonderfully green universe we live in, eh."

    Season 3 Episode 8 - Demons

  2. #42
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Hey, did you all know that Martouf was supposed to have been revived by the Tok'ra after Divide and Conquer for the episodes Summit and Last Stand, but JR Bourne had scheduling issues, so they made it so that only Lantash survived (to take Lt. Elliot). How sad...

  3. #43
    Captain Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Ah that sucks, I really liked him. Atleast they tried.
    How'd you come across that info?
    O'Neill: "Ah. Trees, trees and more trees! What a wonderfully green universe we live in, eh."

    Season 3 Episode 8 - Demons

  4. #44
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
    Ah that sucks, I really liked him. Atleast they tried.
    How'd you come across that info?
    It was referenced in the Stargate Wiki under the episode production notes.

  5. #45
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Heart Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    *snif* I really, really wish they would have postponed the episode then, or tried again to bring Martouf/Lantash back later - it is sci-fi, after all, and I have seen lots of characters brought back from much worse in any number of shows.

    Of course - I also wish they wouldn't have killed them in the first place. I have read it was because they believed Martouf/Lantash had no fans and it would thus be a 'safe' person to kill. It turned out they were wrong, and that was why they considered bringing them back.

    Tiger - WELCOME to the Tok'ra appreciation thread.

    -Skadi

  6. #46
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
    I really love the Tok'ra, I've never really seen any bad in them, plus they really put in an effort to put up with the Tau'ri and help as well as protect them.

    I think if Earth wasn't so, tell us when, where, why all of you are at every second the Goa'uld would have been defeated sooner.

    My favorite Tok'ra is Malak, I really like his character and he was up for changing his sight of the Jaffa in less than a day. Plus there was just something about him. I wish they would have kept up with him.
    I agree completely with your assessment of the Tok'ra and the Tau'ri. I wish SGC had understood that secrecy is paramount to the way the Tok'ra work, and hadn't insisted on being told EVERYTHING. I have never heard of any alliances where everyone was told everything anyway - and it wasn't as if the Tau'ri told the Tok'ra everything...

    True about Malek being very impressive in the alliances episode - he even admitted his wrongs, something very few people will do. I too wish we would have seen more to him (and to many of the other Tok'ra that only showed up for an episode or two).

    -Skadi

  7. #47
    Lieutenant Colonel Sun'shyne's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Great idea starting this thread Skadi dear!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    I'm going to post a picture of Martouf/Lantash from Tokra I.

    Spoiler:
    http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff309/Skadi_tokra/TokraI/Martouf46.jpg


    This episode is one of my favorites, because that is the first time we really learn a lot about the Tok'ra, and see their tunnels. 'In the Line of Fire' may be the first episode where they are mentioned, but we didn't really learn much about them, except that there were Goa'uld's which didn't agree with the majority.
    Which episode is everyone else's favorite, and why?

    -Skadi
    Selmak/Jacob is my favourite. I think it's because we not only got to see the cool kick-ass Tok'ra attitude, but also the sweet father/daughter relationship. Carmen was the perfect choice for that role as he plays both amazingly!

    Martouf is a close second. But I already talk non-stop about him and JR in the thunk thread, so I won't bore people here!

    My favourite episode is a three-way tie....

    Jolinar's Memories I just rewatched last night. I love the chemistry between Martouf and all the characters, especially Jack. There's that small element of a struggle; for power and a bit of Sam's heart. They are always trying to show eachother up. I find that amazing on the part of the actors, a great little bit to add to the story, and insanely hot too LOL!!

    Abyss I realize this isn't obviously Tok'ra heavy, but all the same, we get to know of jack's struggle with Kanan, and Kanan's abandonment of him. A side of the Tok'ra we'd not previously seen! Anyone who knows me on here though will know that I'll squeeze in Abyss wherever I can talk about it.. it's my all-time favourite episode..

    And finally, Threads, not only a supurb episode in general, also a great tribute to Jacob. We see the love he has for his job, life as a Tok'ra, and most importantly, a father's love for his daughter.



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptJanson View Post
    Didn't they once, though? Accept higher rated stories, I mean. Me thinks I saw some once?

    Cool webpage, nebulan!
    Yes they did, I used to post mine there... gotta tell you it really sucked that day that my computer crashed AND they pulled all the NC-17 stories from the site... I lost all my work....

    Quote Originally Posted by MerryK View Post
    Hey, did you all know that Martouf was supposed to have been revived by the Tok'ra after Divide and Conquer for the episodes Summit and Last Stand, but JR Bourne had scheduling issues, so they made it so that only Lantash survived (to take Lt. Elliot). How sad...
    Omg.. this may be more for the Sam/Martouf thread, but I would have given my eye-teeeth to see him tell Sam he loved her!!!

  8. #48
    Major Snotr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
    I really love the Tok'ra, I've never really seen any bad in them, plus they really put in an effort to put up with the Tau'ri and help as well as protect them.

    I think if Earth wasn't so, tell us when, where, why all of you are at every second the Goa'uld would have been defeated sooner.

    My favorite Tok'ra is Malak, I really like his character and he was up for changing his sight of the Jaffa in less than a day. Plus there was just something about him. I wish they would have kept up with him.
    Welcome to the thread, Tiger

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun'shyne View Post

    Jolinar's Memories I just rewatched last night. I love the chemistry between Martouf and all the characters, especially Jack. There's that small element of a struggle; for power and a bit of Sam's heart. They are always trying to show eachother up. I find that amazing on the part of the actors, a great little bit to add to the story, and insanely hot too LOL!!
    Yes, I actually would have liked to see this rivalry in later epis, if they had let Martouf/Lantash live. It might have been interesting...and now for my usual question - anyone know any fanfics where they do that? I really feel like seeing something about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun'shyne View Post
    Yes they did, I used to post mine there... gotta tell you it really sucked that day that my computer crashed AND they pulled all the NC-17 stories from the site... I lost all my work....
    aaw, that must really have sucked. Why did they change it? Do you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun'shyne View Post
    Omg.. this may be more for the Sam/Martouf thread, but I would have given my eye-teeeth to see him tell Sam he loved her!!!
    That would have been something! What a wasted opportunity! Someone - please write an AU where that happens!

    -Snotr

  9. #49
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun'shyne View Post
    Yes they did, I used to post mine there... gotta tell you it really sucked that day that my computer crashed AND they pulled all the NC-17 stories from the site... I lost all my work....
    Yikes! I would have hated that, if I had stories somewhere and they just pulled them. Really nasty of them. Didn't they give you some sort of warning?
    Oh, and what stories do you write? Stargate?

    -Skadi

  10. #50
    Henrietta CaptJanson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
    I really love the Tok'ra, I've never really seen any bad in them, plus they really put in an effort to put up with the Tau'ri and help as well as protect them.

    I think if Earth wasn't so, tell us when, where, why all of you are at every second the Goa'uld would have been defeated sooner.

    My favorite Tok'ra is Malak, I really like his character and he was up for changing his sight of the Jaffa in less than a day. Plus there was just something about him. I wish they would have kept up with him.
    WELCOME Tiger! Tok'ra lovers are always welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Snotr View Post
    Yes, I actually would have liked to see this rivalry in later epis, if they had let Martouf/Lantash live. It might have been interesting...and now for my usual question - anyone know any fanfics where they do that? I really feel like seeing something about this.
    Ooh, interesting. I would love to read that too.

  11. #51
    Lieutenant Colonel Hathor_girl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    welcome any new people I haven't already said hi to

    I watched the Divide and Conquer episode (*snif*) and noticed that Anise and Freya is interested in two different men. Isn't that a contradiction? I thought the Tok'ra always felt the same (Martouf/Lantash says: we love as one, we mourn as one - what one feel, so does the other).

    Changed premises? parallel/different universe? Anise/Freya has a bad blending? Anise/Freya are not in love - what they feel is pure lust/physical interest and thus they haven't sync'd their feelings yet?

    What do people think?

  12. #52
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathor_girl View Post
    welcome any new people I haven't already said hi to

    I watched the Divide and Conquer episode (*snif*) and noticed that Anise and Freya is interested in two different men. Isn't that a contradiction? I thought the Tok'ra always felt the same (Martouf/Lantash says: we love as one, we mourn as one - what one feel, so does the other).

    Changed premises? parallel/different universe? Anise/Freya has a bad blending? Anise/Freya are not in love - what they feel is pure lust/physical interest and thus they haven't sync'd their feelings yet?

    What do people think?
    Didn't Freya say that Anise was attracted to Daniel intellectually? I always took that to mean that both Anise and Freya acknowledged that Jack was very attractive and wouldn't mind being with him, but Anise liked Daniel and thought that he would be a good match. There's also the fact that Lantash said that they loved and mourned as one, not that they liked/disliked as one. I don't think it would be possible not to be similarly affected by strong emotions, but when it comes to simpler emotions, we've seen that symbiote and host can disagree. Makes sense to me, anyway.

  13. #53
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathor_girl View Post
    I watched the Divide and Conquer episode (*snif*) and noticed that Anise and Freya is interested in two different men. Isn't that a contradiction? I thought the Tok'ra always felt the same (Martouf/Lantash says: we love as one, we mourn as one - what one feel, so does the other).

    Changed premises? parallel/different universe? Anise/Freya has a bad blending? Anise/Freya are not in love - what they feel is pure lust/physical interest and thus they haven't sync'd their feelings yet?

    What do people think?
    I had noticed that. I always thought the real life answer was the first - changed premises/different writers who thought it would be cool to have host and symbiote want different persons, despite what we were told earlier.

    I realise, that to explain that in the Stargate universe, we would of course need different/alternate universes, but given how many we have seen of those in Stargate, I don't really see a problem in that. The show would merely be in one universe in the first - maybe 3, seasons and then in another in the rest of them (except for those episodes were we are told take place in yet other universes).

    Some part may also be that it really is only like/dislike they feel about Daniel, as MerryK says, and that both Anise/Freya want/desire Jack. I agree that host and symbiote of course are able to have separate likes/dislikes, but also that the stronger emotions would be the same - it would not be possible to keep those separate.

    This is what is said in the episode:

    Spoiler:

    FREYA: I originally came from a planet where the people were not afraid to show their affection for someone. When we wanted to lo'machen--
    O'NEILL: Excuse me?
    FREYA: I believe you call it...
    O'NEILL: ...something else.
    FREYA: Anise, my symbiote, is far more interested in Doctor Jackson on an intellectual level, but she would have to suffer.
    O'NEILL: Look, there's so many reasons why this is wrong . . . and . . . weird . . . and . . . wrong. . . . Did I mention wrong?
    FREYA: Is it because I share my body with Anise?
    O'NEILL: For starters.
    FREYA: Do you not find me attractive?


    So it sounds as if Anise really does not find Jack attractive? So maybe it is just physical desire from Freya's side, and no feelings are really involved, which could be why they don't both want him.

    -Skadi

  14. #54
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Skadi View Post
    So it sounds as if Anise really does not find Jack attractive? So maybe it is just physical desire from Freya's side, and no feelings are really involved, which could be why they don't both want him.
    Reading that part again, I have a feeling that both Anise and Freya are much freer about their relations with people, and don't see one of them being with Jack as any more of an inconvenience than one of them wanting a certain meal that the other isn't fond of. The RL answer is probable, but I think there's plenty of explanations within the show's universe without stretching things too much.

  15. #55
    Major General nebulan's Avatar
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    I'm going to go with that's it's different for each relationship... I think. Lantash and Martouf both loved Jolinar and Rosha "as one" But I seem to remember (It's been a while since I've seen the episodes) didn't Lantash have to do some convincing to get Sam to believe that he loved her too? (Well, lt Elliot did the explaining), but it wasn't just Martouf who loved her? I kinda got the impression that Lantash grew to love Sam in his own way, tho I'm sure that both Lantash and Martouf can influence each other's feelings if they let them. Anise and Freya just might be a little more stubborn, lol! did that make any sense?

    I personally don't think an individual symbiote can be attracted to a human but it's only through the aide of their host's hormones that they can. For example, Kianna Cyr's goauld fell in love with Jonas without letting the host have any control, but I think the goauld's love developed because she was influenced by the host Kianna... Amaunet had the same issue with Daniel.. only she was a little psycho (she let Daniel live in Secrets and then tried to kill him in forever in a day) lol!

    mmmmmm tokra tunnel love. no jack, we're not looking at you, we're looking at the tunnels


    here's a question, maybe they answered it in "to'kra pt 1 and 2" but I don't remember. If the tok'ra are so short on hosts, why don't they have kids? they're numbers are only going to get smaller. Why didn't egeria give birth to another queen? or is it like bees, if you feel a drone the right stuff when she's young she'll become a queen? and for hosts... I guess they can't have kids because they don't want a harsessis? what would be so bad about a human kid with all the knowledge of the Tok'ra? as soon as he's old enough to have a symbiote he's gonna get it anyway...

    yeah, I guess I'm just rambling now.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebulan View Post
    I'm going to go with that's it's different for each relationship... I think. Lantash and Martouf both loved Jolinar and Rosha "as one" But I seem to remember (It's been a while since I've seen the episodes) didn't Lantash have to do some convincing to get Sam to believe that he loved her too? (Well, lt Elliot did the explaining), but it wasn't just Martouf who loved her? I kinda got the impression that Lantash grew to love Sam in his own way, tho I'm sure that both Lantash and Martouf can influence each other's feelings if they let them. Anise and Freya just might be a little more stubborn, lol! did that make any sense?
    I checked what is said in the episode. Martouf and Lantash are talking about the Tok'ra as a whole, and not only about themselves when they say host and symbiote feel the same, so it is at least the norm that they feel the same - at the very least Anise/Freya are unusual. I am starting to believe in the 'oh, wouldn't it be fun if host/symbiote wanted different persons' (RL), explained with a parallel universe for the Stargate (multi)universe. This is what is said:

    Spoiler:

    LANTESH: Jolinar and I were together for nearly... 100 of your years. She was my mate.
    SAM: Oh. How does that work? She was whose mate? Martouf, or Lantash?
    LANTESH: Both.
    MARTOUF: Now let me attempt an explanation. As I said before, ours (the Tok'ra) is a truly symbiotic relationship. So what I feel, Lantash feels. And what Lantash feels, I feel.
    SAM: So when one of you is in love, you both feel it.
    MARTOUF: Yes, we love as one. And, and we mourn as one.
    SAM: I'm sorry.
    MARTOUF: Don't be sorry. We want you to truly comprehend this so that you'll better understand us.
    SAM: Okay, well, I am curious. What was Jolinar's host like?


    I checked Divide and Conquer (transcript).

    Spoiler:

    MARTOUF: Yes, I know. And not only do I not want to risk losing what you still carry of Jolinar, but . . . I've grown quite fond of you as well, Sam.


    and then Last Stand (transcript). We don't actually get told that Martouf loved Sam, but I'm gonna assume he did, because of the love as one thing. Lantash, however, DID love her - poor guy (symbiote) loved her very much in fact. Thus, Martouf should have fallen in love to, if nothing else then because Lantash did. I'm really feeling sorry for Lantash - sitting in his tank for month, thinking about Sam.

    Spoiler:

    ELLIOT: He loves you Major. That's one of the only reasons he was fighting to live. He just wanted you to know.
    CARTER: The symbiote I carried was Martouf's mate. Martouf and I became close friends because of it.
    ELLIOT: I'm telling you he loves you. As much as he once loved Jolinar. He regrets what happened, that the host ultimately died. He doesn't want you to feel responsible.


    I personally don't think an individual symbiote can be attracted to a human but it's only through the aide of their host's hormones that they can. For example, Kianna Cyr's goauld fell in love with Jonas without letting the host have any control, but I think the goauld's love developed because she was influenced by the host Kianna... Amaunet had the same issue with Daniel.. only she was a little psycho (she let Daniel live in Secrets and then tried to kill him in forever in a day) lol!

    mmmmmm tokra tunnel love. no jack, we're not looking at you, we're looking at the tunnels
    Well, I think the symbiote CAN fall in love with a human, without any help of the host. Lantash seems to be badly stricken. Probably the many years and generations they have had humans as hosts have resulted in them having the same feelings/desires/wants that humans have. Poor symbiotes - must be frustrating.

    here's a question, maybe they answered it in "to'kra pt 1 and 2" but I don't remember. If the tok'ra are so short on hosts, why don't they have kids? they're numbers are only going to get smaller. Why didn't egeria give birth to another queen? or is it like bees, if you feel a drone the right stuff when she's young she'll become a queen? and for hosts... I guess they can't have kids because they don't want a harsessis? what would be so bad about a human kid with all the knowledge of the Tok'ra? as soon as he's old enough to have a symbiote he's gonna get it anyway...

    yeah, I guess I'm just rambling now.
    Hehe - I'm rambling too - and quoting like crazy. When I checked Tok'ra I, they seem to hint they have a queen:

    Spoiler:

    MARTOUF: That's correct. We believe to do so would drain the good from our hearts.
    DANIEL: I can vouch for that.
    MARTOUF: That's why our numbers don't grow large enough to defeat the massive forces aligned with System Lords.
    SAM: Zero or negative population growth. Since you won't take new hosts by force, most of the time the Goa'uld dies with the host.
    YOSUF: And this is what is about to happen to Selmak.
    MARTOUF: Unless one of you wishes to volunteer to serve as a host.


    Egeria could of course have had one or several daughters that the Tok'ra just don't know about, or maybe some have been killed or sits around in those stasis jars, that seem to be every where and always with symbiotes in them. I'll be careful about opening one if I ever find one!

    Regarding the human kids with Tok'ra parents. I don't think the Tok'ra has any problems with them getting the genetic memory. The Tok'ra are not evil, so the kids shouldn't have problems - at most they really want to join the Tok'ra when they grow up, and that is a good thing!
    I think the problem is a combination of the Tok'ra fearing the Goa'uld capture the kids and put a goa'uld in them to get the information, and it being really difficult/dangerous to raise children when you are an illegal resistance on the run.

    Well, that's my thoughts anyway

    -Snotr

  17. #57
    Major MerryK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snotr View Post
    We don't actually get told that Martouf loved Sam, but I'm gonna assume he did, because of the love as one thing. Lantash, however, DID love her - poor guy (symbiote) loved her very much in fact. Thus, Martouf should have fallen in love to, if nothing else then because Lantash did. I'm really feeling sorry for Lantash - sitting in his tank for month, thinking about Sam.
    I don't think Martouf would have told Sam of his love unless he was absolutely sure she was willing and ready to have a more committed relationship. He's a diplomat, a peacekeeper, and so the sort of person who would keep it friendly and noncommital on the surface even if he felt more, for Sam's sake. The way he talks to her speaks of more than "fondness" in my book anyway... Lantash, on the other hand, is much more open/blunt.

  18. #58
    Colonel Skadi's Avatar
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    Heart Re: The Tok'ra appreciation thread

    I agree with you, MerryK - Martouf is the diplomatic one of the pair, while Lantash speaks his mind. From what they said in Tok'ra I & II I'm certain they feel the same, even if they express it differently - yes, also from the expression on his face, when he tells her. He does look a bit uncomfortable.

    Spoiler:


    That was a very long and thorough posting, Snotr! I agree totally, and I got so very sad when I read those transcripts again, I almost cried for poor Lantash. He deserved better (as did Martouf). I really hope TPTB will bring them back again.

    -Skadi

  19. #59
    Henrietta CaptJanson's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion - never thought of it, but yeah - Anise/Freya seem a little different in that way from what the we have been told of the other Tok'ra. Suppose you're right and it could just be physical attraction they're feeling, but I think the simplest explanation is the one about the writers thinking it funny.

    Haha - even more parallel universes - yeah, why not? That explains a lot of things and can be used every time a new writer decides to come up with something that's different or couldn't be bothered to see the earlier epis. I'll go with that as an explanation, given how many of those we've seen in the show - maybe that's why the Tok'ra becomes increasingly bad guys as the seasons progress. It's not that they've changed - they always where like that in the universe we are now watching.

    Hmm. Maybe there is material for a fanfic in this. Someone from the Stargate universe of the first few seasons somehow gets to the universe of the later seasons, and meet themselves and is surprised at how Tok'ra-hating they are there. I wish someone would write a short fun story about that! Maybe Tok'ra friendly Jack (married to Anise/Freya!) meets Tok'ra-hating Jack?

  20. #60
    Major Snotr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptJanson View Post
    Hmm. Maybe there is material for a fanfic in this. Someone from the Stargate universe of the first few seasons somehow gets to the universe of the later seasons, and meet themselves and is surprised at how Tok'ra-hating they are there. I wish someone would write a short fun story about that! Maybe Tok'ra friendly Jack (married to Anise/Freya!) meets Tok'ra-hating Jack?
    I like this idea! I - sort of - read such a story. I think it was called Timelines (on fanfiction.net, I think). Didn't have much elaboration on Jack's opinion of the Tok'ra, but they did get to several other timelines/universes.

    Hehe. Thought of something else as a result of all this. It's partly a question, partly a joke, partly just something I pondered...and totally ridiculous, I guess

    Given that we have:

    1) Symbiote and host love as one/feel the same
    2) Lantash loves Sam

    What would happen if Lantash had blended with Sam in Last Stand/Summit? Would she fall in love with herself?

    Furthermore. Let's assume Sam loves Lantash and Martouf. Would he then fall in love with himself?

    - and just to make it even more confusing; lets assume Lantash had only left Martouf temporarily, to let them both heal up after the zatarc incident (we're now in a universe where they survived), and Lantash blends with Sam for a while, making them feel the same. Will Martouf then fall in love with himself the moment he reblends with Lantash?

    Don't mind me...I'm just being silly

    -Snotr

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