British, English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

Inspired by another thread that went horribly off topic because I wanted to confuse ignorant foreigners.

Ok for those not in the know.

"British" is a very controversial term. Technically speaking it could be used to refer to everyone in the British Isles (the UK, Republic or Ireland, Isle of Man and the channel islands). But it isn't as in most people's minds british = UK so Channel Islanders, Irish and Manx people will get offended by that (especially Irish)
For the most part, British means anyone from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. However this raises problems. You see Great Britain refers to the largest island in the british isles, the one with most of England, Scotland and Wales on it. That's why it's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Politically, "Great Britain" refers to the whole of England, Scotland and Wales (ie all the English, Scottish and Welsh islands aswell as the island of Great Britain).
So where does that leave Northern Ireland? Should we not refer to them as British? Problem Solved?
No
"British" is hated by some/alot (not sure) of Welsh and Scottish people, because alot of foreigners think British is the same as English, and get quite offended by this.
So that means that English people are the only people not offended by the term "British".

So what's the point?
Should we just refer to everyone as "English", "Welsh", "Scottish" and "Northern Irish" and get rid of the term "British" all together
Should we care?
Shall we just split the UK up and get it over and done with?
If you were on Atlantis, would you have the union flag or the flag of your country.
If it was me, I would insist on St. George's cross, I don't have a problem with the rest of the UK but they seem to have a problem with England.

For more information

[shipper hannah]

to be honest, i think people make too big a deal out of it.
if you live in northern ireland, then i don't think its unreasonable to want to be refered to as irish. on the other hand, if you're welsh, scottish or english its not unreasonable to be expected to be refered to as british. if foreigners think that british is the same as english, then that's their problem, they're just ignorant.

[sueKay]

I have no problem with England.

I have a problem with percieved "Britishness"

Take for example, the BBC 6 O'Clock News, which ran a story on Britishness. In their background graphic, they had the following:

A Beefeater
Buckingham Palace
A London Underground sign
And a red telephone box

That ain't British...that's English...but not even English per-se...It's a London thing.

If they wanted a graphic for British, they'd need something from not necessarily just each nation, but each region...none of the above (apart from perhaps the telephone box) could represent say, Cornwall, or Yorkshire, or Anglesey, or Fife, etc.

The widely understood perception of Britain is one small corner of England, and that's what's fundamentally wrong with it.

Another example - Accents

Someone with a Welsh accent has a Welsh accent
Someone with a Scottish accent has a Scottish accent
But someone with an English accent has a British accent

The concept of Britishness is more damaging to England in the long term, as uninformed people think the two terms are interchangeable.

Personally, I'd be far happier if Grodin wore a St. George's Cross, than the Union flag.

And I'd be far happier if England had a devolved Parliament, or regional assemblies.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

Or for some people;

English accent = Australian.... how????? It's nothing like it

Also they're many english accents, not just one. But that's a whole other topic

[sueKay]

I know...there are also several Welsh and Scottish accents (literally hundreds of Scottish ones)

But I was generalising, otherwise we'd be here all day!

[shipper hannah]

I have no problem with England.

I have a problem with percieved "Britishness"

Take for example, the BBC 6 O'Clock News, which ran a story on Britishness. In their background graphic, they had the following:

A Beefeater
Buckingham Palace
A London Underground sign
And a red telephone box

That ain't British...that's English...but not even English per-se...It's a London thing.

If they wanted a graphic for British, they'd need something from not necessarily just each nation, but each region...none of the above (apart from perhaps the telephone box) could represent say, Cornwall, or Yorkshire, or Anglesey, or Fife, etc.

The widely understood perception of Britain is one small corner of England, and that's what's fundamentally wrong with it.

Another example - Accents

Someone with a Welsh accent has a Welsh accent
Someone with a Scottish accent has a Scottish accent
But someone with an English accent has a British accent

The concept of Britishness is more damaging to England in the long term, as uninformed people think the two terms are interchangeable.

Personally, I'd be far happier if Grodin wore a St. George's Cross, than the Union flag.

And I'd be far happier if England had a devolved Parliament, or regional assemblies.

the beefeater, red telephone box etc is what foreign people think of when they think of britain. they don't think of cornish pasties.

english people don't have the same accents, you should know that!
my mother's half of the family is from sunderland so they have very geordie accents, i can only understand half of what my uncle says.
my father's half is from oldham in north manchester so yorkshire acccents, their is a lot easier to understand, but its still a big difference for only half an hour away.

foreigners (i.e. americans) seem to think that all british people either speak the queen's english or cockney.

the union jack itself is purposefully a combination of the flags of england, n. ireland, scotland and wales. its quite reasonable for Grodin to have a union jack on his jacket, since that is the flag for great britain, and he's from great britain.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

^ What part of the Union flag is welsh?

Carson is also from GB but he had the scottish flag

[shipper hannah]

oh well i guess they couldn't fit it on. oh well..

[shipper hannah]

^ What part of the Union flag is welsh?

Carson is also from GB but he had the scottish flag

yeah, i guess that would be a bit of discontinuity. or maybe carson specifically requested it.

[sueKay]

I may be from the Island of Great Britain, but I do not feel British in any way, and I never will.

Hannah - I've already answered the accents question, but you've forgotten the vast array of Scottish, Welsh and Irish accents as well

[Flyboy]

I feel British. I personally think that Britain is how the United Kingdom interacts with the world in major politics. I think that English, Scottish and Welsh reflects domestic policy. I for one am immensely proud of Britain and it's role in the world, minus Iraq.... and it's empire... but hey....

England, for me, means nout but football riots, and hooligans and chavs.

So, for me, being British is about a pride in one's appearance, a desire to be a force for good in the world, and to be, above all, a gentlemen/lady.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but hey.

[shipper hannah]

I may be from the Island of Great Britain, but I do not feel British in any way, and I never will.

Hannah - I've already answered the accents question, but you've forgotten the vast array of Scottish, Welsh and Irish accents as well

thats my point, there's a variety of accents all over the british isles. there is no true 'english accent' the same way as there is no 'scottish accent'.

[sueKay]

To me, everything portrayed to be British seems to be English - stiff upper lip, and things like that...none of which seems relevant to me, and the more I learn about the history of my own country, it further distances the concepts of Scottishness and Britishness, for me, and most Scots I know.

When questioned, most Scots prefer to be labelled Scottish and Scottish alone
Some prefer to be called Scottish first, British second
Only a small minority prefer to be called British and not Scottish

The same also goes for a lot of people in the north of England, most of who were found to prefer to be labelled English over British

[Fionnait]

Well, what you refer to as "Britishness" is just a foreigner's preconception... When you think of Germany, you think about Lederhosen, beer and pretzels... but that's Bavaria (if at all). It's just all prejudice. When you think of America it's cowboys and prairies...

[shipper hannah]

To me, everything portrayed to be British seems to be English - stiff upper lip, and things like that...none of which seems relevant to me, and the more I learn about the history of my own country, it further distances the concepts of Scottishness and Britishness, for me, and most Scots I know.

When questioned, most Scots prefer to be labelled Scottish and Scottish alone
Some prefer to be called Scottish first, British second
Only a small minority prefer to be called British and not Scottish

The same also goes for a lot of people in the north of England, most of who were found to prefer to be labelled English over British

but the stiff upper lip type- that's NOT english any more than it is scottish.
i call myself british over english. english doesn't really mean much anymore. for me, if i went to live in wales or scotland i wouldn't feel like i was living in a different country, i'd just be living in a different part of britain. the way i see it, we're all in this together, internationally, so what's the big deal?