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  1. #1

    Default Here's a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    I can see this and me getting drummed out of here for this. But this forum seemed a reasonable place to post this given the contributors that include.

    Ron Thornton
    Paul Bryant
    Luc Mayrand
    Adam “mojo” Lebowitz
    Larry Bowman
    Mark Kochinski
    Jeff Scheetz
    Tim Earls
    Kevin Kutchaver


    I also realise that it’s never a good idea to make your first post something like this. But given the content of the the site I thought that any fans of B5 on here might find it interesting.


    http://ftp.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scrolls/B5Scrolls.htm

    It’s clearly not finished, and the format of the site is creaking a little under the weight of the various new content, but as I need to take a break from it for a while I decided to post it up now.

    I’m still in the middle of talking to a few people (as well as the current contributors) including a couple of those behind the Legend of the Rangers and the new Lost Tales, as well as a few more connected to B5 & Crusade in various ways. So there is quite a lot of things still to add to it.

    Mac users have no chance of viewing it (Opera & Safari). IE and Firefox should run it as should Netscape (with the IE emulator turned on for the window your running it under).

    Anyway, any thoughts? Anyone in particular that you think should be on it that’s not already there, anything that you want an answer to?

    Hell, IS it interesting?

    Am I going to get banned after just one post?

  2. #2
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Errr... So I see that you didn't explain what your site is suppose to be either in this post OR on the website itself. Is it a B5 reference guide?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by gopher65 View Post
    Errr... So I see that you didn't explain what your site is suppose to be either in this post OR on the website itself. Is it a B5 reference guide?
    If you read the first couple of dozen ords when you first enter the site then look at it, I'd imagine it shuld become pretty obvious pretty quick.

  4. #4
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple-F View Post
    If you read the first couple of dozen ords when you first enter the site then look at it, I'd imagine it shuld become pretty obvious pretty quick.
    In no way is it obvious. Try and look at your page not as the creator of the site, but as someone who is going there for the first time and is clueless about what you are trying to do.

    Actually all it says is "I don't know how to explain what this site is". Ok... that's a great explanation. If a site doesn't explain what it is on the first page I rarely go past that point because if they can't even do that right there's no way they are going to have a well organized site.

    Say, in big bold letters "This is a blahblahblah site", then go on with your "I must have created 50 front pages" non-explanation. That's all it takes really. People need to be able to tell what your page is at a glance, else they won't bother with it.

    Cool models though. Did you get those from somewhere else or put them together yourself?

  5. #5
    General maneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    With that sort of information at the start I'm really disinclined to start using any IE emulator. I want web developers to know I'm a firefox user and design sites accordingly. Barring safari and opera users through clunky software (good web apps should run on any browser) won't win you many friends either.

    At the very least, you should credit the creators of each model when it appears, that shouldn't be too difficult.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/manephelien/avatars/deadtribbles.jpg

  6. #6
    Captain Xicer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    It works just fine in Firefox...
    [email protected]|Babylon 5 Canon Guide

    Delenn: This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw,...or be destroyed.
    Earth Captain: Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship.
    Delenn: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.
    --Babylon 5 - "Severed Dreams"

  7. #7
    General maneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    It ran for me, but I didn't see any images. Probably because I don't run the IE emulator.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/manephelien/avatars/deadtribbles.jpg

  8. #8
    Captain Xicer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    I see the images, I'm not running an IE emulator.
    [email protected]|Babylon 5 Canon Guide

    Delenn: This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw,...or be destroyed.
    Earth Captain: Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship.
    Delenn: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.
    --Babylon 5 - "Severed Dreams"

  9. #9

    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    You don’t need an IE emulator for firefox. (in Netscape it’s a little box you tick for that particular window). If you don’t see any animations then I’d guess you have the flash click to play option enabled. It’s up to you whether you disable that or not – I don’t allow you direct access to the flash animations on the site so you can’t click it. If you have a problem with Flash, then remember that it’s the most widely available platform for presenting animations. Unless of course you know a better way that doesn’t involve the downloading of video codecs, thus pissing off a hell of a lot more people than those that don’t know what the buttons on the firefox config screens are for.

    It’s also a beta version of the site to gauge responses to the unique content (I admit I should've made that point clear). There is a bit more to it than 140 animated models. Not to the design or whether it works on Opera or not, that’s an easy fix . . . duh. The design is pretty crap as it was never originally designed to hold all the information that it now contains. I released it now because I have to take a break from it so decided it was a good time to get some intelligent feedback from those that will READ it, and before the other half of the content is added from a few other contributors.

    As for it not being obvious what the site is about. Interesting, I always imagined anyone visiting it will do so after being pointed to it or after searching on the appropriate key words so are therefore not completely bamboozled by a site saying it’s about Babylon 5. Everyone else who has viewed it clocked on very quickly what it was all about - Found the front quite clever an intriguing actually.

    It's about acknowledging the work of the people who actually created the VFX seen in the show. Not jms. Horses for courses I guess. I’ll be a be more obvious in the final version for those with a short attention span or limited cognitive abilities. Thanks for the heads up, I genuinely didn’t realise some would have a problem with that.

    I made just over half the models.

    Any sensible comments, like who you would like to see on the site or any questions that you would like answered by the guys who created the show (like what I asked at the start) or do you just want to continue slagging of the asethics.
    Last edited by Triple-F; February 4th, 2008 at 04:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Right... so lets say I search for B5 and come to that page. All has is a list of seemingly random names (I love B5 and I didn't recognize a single one of them, so those names will mean nothing to almost everyone), a blurb that says "I have no idea what this site is", and "click the big red button". Uh huh. *clicks back button, goes to a site that explains itself better*

    Keep in mind that there is a lot of junk around, and google doesn't exactly filter it for us. We decide whether or not a site is garbage based entirely on the information on and layout of the front page. I'm not saying this to nitpick your design or anything. I've built a few pages myself and I hate it when people do that to me, especially when I've put a lot of work into a page. You have some good material there (I like the one liners). I'm just saying, you have to explain clearly and concisely what your page is, else people will assume it is random google spam and leave without giving it a fair chance.

    Now if people are *only* going to be directed there from your site, then that is a different story, cause they will already know where they are going. But if you are expecting people to go to that page from a search engine or from links on forums or facebook or something, then that is the first thing people will see, and you want to give a good first impression.

    Oh, and it works just fine with the default Firefox options as far as I can see. I'm not sure why it doesn't work for that other guy unless he doesn't have flash enabled.
    Last edited by gopher65; February 6th, 2008 at 08:25 AM. Reason: Strictly formatting. Added a linebreak

  11. #11
    General maneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    I do have flash enabled, so I must admit I'm a bit confused as to why it didn't work. I have occasionally had problems with flash, I'll try again when I get home from work and can reinstall it.

    In spite of my name I'm not a guy.

    First impressions are very important, and I don't have a particularly short attention span.

    The points gopher raised are valid, however. Don't be cryptic if you want people to visit. There's a lot on offer online, and a lot of it is questionable. So if you want people to visit, you'd better be pretty darn obvious about what the site is for.

    Besides, people don't know you from Adam and you started this thread with your first post, so you have no legitimate history here to give people a reason to trust you. If you had been an active member here for a while, things might have been a bit different.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/manephelien/avatars/deadtribbles.jpg

  12. #12
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by maneth View Post
    I do have flash enabled, so I must admit I'm a bit confused as to why it didn't work. I have occasionally had problems with flash, I'll try again when I get home from work and can reinstall it.

    In spite of my name I'm not a guy.
    Sorry about that.

    You said it loads, but you don't see any models (in a previous post). Do you see the big red button to click and stuff, and can you get past that part? If you do, when the tan coloured area with the black grid on the top and the black "ships, episodes, Extras" area at the bottom loads, can you click any of those three words? It doesn't autoselect a category for you, so it will be blank until you click one of those words, and the select 2 subcategories.

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Sci-Fi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    That site has too many scripts...something many will not ok or change their settings to run. Besides, that site takes too long to load, even for broadband...need to slim it down and assume there are people still using dialup...that's if you want people to come back and visit/recommend the site.

    Speed and ease of use as well as samples on the main page of what the site has to offer and at least have a quick link(s)/menu to other parts of the website. Last thing people want is to be forced to scroll though a few pages before getting somewhere. Use a browser like Opera or Safari and if it's compatible/works with those browsers, then the site will work fine with Firefox and IE.

    Right now, people may go to the 2nd page but won't go any further the way the site is currently setup. I didn't even bother to see what's next or to see what models you were talking about. The risk may be too high for the more security minded surfers.
    It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
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  14. #14
    Colonel suse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    I recognized a disturbing number of those people. But then I haunted usenet for the JMS posts. And The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5. And saw Adam "Mojo" Leibowitz at cons.

    John Copeland (don't remember see his name) was a trip. Good ol' Pigdog13. What a great guy dealing with the fallout from Claudia's...abrupt departure.


    I'll definitely check this out. Didn't see much in the way of graphics, but I's guess it's the computer I'm on.

    Triple-F? You might want to tone down the snark INSULT "I’ll be a be more obvious in the final version for those with a short attention span or limited cognitive abilities" if you want honest answers and not a flame war. I realize you spent a lot of time on this, but you might need someone else to write the main page. Because it was clear as mud what the site is about.

    I only knew because I have very fond memories associated with those names.

    ETA: Sci-Fi said:
    Right now, people may go to the 2nd page but won't go any further the way the site is currently setup. I didn't even bother to see what's next or to see what models you were talking about. The risk may be too high for the more security minded surfers.
    Nicely said. I got twitchy just looking. Not sure why...

    suse
    Last edited by suse; February 23rd, 2008 at 05:11 PM. Reason: Needed to be a little clearer on thread creator's posting style.
    Mourning Sanctuary.
    Thanks for the good times!


  15. #15
    Captain Mousie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    I agree with the others, unfortunately your welcoming page does not in anyway give the smallest clue as to what it is about. If it had come up under a general B5 search, I'd have hit the back button and never ventured near it again. However as you say if the specific people who it is aimed at had found it, it will probably be clearer to them.

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant peragrin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    odd at work on windows/firefox I can see the site and the images

    At home with OS X/Firefox I can only see the base images and then they look tiny. On the 1280x1024 monitor the images to select which ones to show larger, are almost small enough to not be able to recognize various ships.

    I will say this though you do have the largest collection of images I have seen including the odd ball ships.

    You have the content. Now display it. Flash might be universal but it is also loathed. Loading your website overloads my work computer causing it to be rebooted. I can't visit youtube, or car dealer websites either so don't take that as criticism.

  17. #17
    General maneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    He did say "Mac users have no chance of viewing it" in his first post, so don't be surprised.

    Funny how Triple F hasn't posted since he realized people don't fall over themselves in amazement at the site...
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/manephelien/avatars/deadtribbles.jpg

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Well, I have no problem with viewing the site and I honestly think, it is quite good, but I also agree that there should be more of an explanation as to what the site has to offer.
    If you really get into it and have a look at its different aspects, it is really quite interesting, so give it a chance!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    Hi,

    The reason for not posting earlier is I don’t browse the net that much, and generally keep to a small number of forums when I do – not because I’m disappointed at the responses or respond badly to criticisms. But as you don’t know me from Adam I can see how it may look like that : )

    First off. I’m not a web developer which should be obvious – and make no claims in that direction. That’s one of the reasons for releasing the site in the state it is in right now – simply to get some input – good or bad.

    The point mentioned earlier about me just showing up, not giving detailed explanations and the fact I’m not known from Adam is well taken.

    I had never considered the “security” aspect of how things might look. Like I mentioned above, I genuinely don’t browse the net that much but I can now see where you are coming from with that. It was meant to be under stated simply because nothing like it exists in B5 fandom – will be rethinking that.

    As for scripts – I doubt there is too many, but the one being used is the root of the loading problems with some browsers. Part of that not browsing much thing is I naively (as I know understand it) started developing the site based on the browser I knew – IE. To be honest I had never even heard of Opera until shortly before the original version went out.

    I recently downloaded a copy to start looking at the problems – 90% of it is simple (and unnecessarily different) syntax. The remainder revolves around the script, which will require a bit of a work around but should be well doable – Ironically the problems surrounding that do appear to be security related VB scripts are not liked by some – bugger.

    The thing is a beta, and messy in places as a result, (I knew that at the time of release) especially as large sections of it are based on the original site.

    One concern I have. Maybe someone here can help me with it. The site is meant to look different – I find the sameness of all sites I visit a real turn off. Many of the comments here point out that because it has a different layout it turned them off. Though again, that might be related to the security thing again. Can anyone point me to what they would consider a well designed (visual) and organised site that looks very different from the table based norm. That would be genuinely helpful.

    Flash – I do get the impression now that some people do loath it – some with a passion. I’m guessing part of that has to do with pop up adds and the like. Unfortunately – to display animated detail like that created for the site I have to use flash. Using codecs (that some would have to download) would cause a larger number of people to complain and turn away from the site.

    Last thing. All the above comments to one side for a moment. The actual content for those that viewed it. Is it interesting or useful at all – and no that’s not looking for a pat on the back : ) - from your standpoint as someone who enjoyed the show. I’m asking that as I basically want to have an idea if it is worth spending the time fixing problems as well as formatting and gathering new information.

    Cheers

    And I’ll try to reply a bit quicker next time.
    Last edited by Triple-F; February 27th, 2008 at 01:34 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Here’s a thing most B5 fans should find a little interesting at least.

    interesting....I'd just call it a Babylon 5 content Database but maybe thats too simplified, anyway, nice models on the site

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