Who do you think is more advance PG or MW ancients.

[Durgia]

Just finished reading this and I must say wow. Everybody here is saying a whole lot of stuff like its fact with little to no evidence. (both sides)

A one word quote is not enough evidence to state an absolute in terms of cannon. Other then that, neither side seems to have any evidence besides deduction.

Personally I am of the belief that Alterans and Lanteans were of the same technological level. Here is my deductive evidence, which does not prove anything but shows my belief.

When the plague hit it has been stated that many Alterans ascended, the majority died out, and a very few survived.

This was millions of years ago, at that time Ancients (I use this term because we have no way of distinguishing between Alterans and Lanteans at this point) had drones, city ships and great big machines (ie Dakara, Time Loop thing etc)

The most advanced members of this race ascended during this time ( at least 3 million years ago) obviously not all were that biologically advanced or perhaps not all wanted to meditate etc.

The Lanteans in Pegasus made no significant changes to their technology in the time between >3million years ago to 10,000 years ago. The same control chairs, drones, stasis chambers, power systems can be found in both places.

The Lanteans were still trying to Ascend after 3 million years, the only ones who did were said to have had to meditate for years. You think after 3 million years they would have evolved somewhat, but it appears it takes the same effort to ascend then as it did 3 million years ago. (Note that the Lanteans from the Tria activated the Ascension machine room when they returned to Atlantis, also note that the Lanteans were still studying Ascension (remember the black could thing from season 1?)

To me it seems that the Lanteans were stagnate in both technology and biology. They stopped evolving, they stopped advancing. This is not a short amount of time here but a very long period of time.

As a final point. There was no difference given to the Ancients of either galaxy by the writers until season 9 of SGA when they introduced the name Alterans. Until that time Lanteans were just Ancients that lived in Atlantis, I see no reason to make a distinction now.

[Jarnin]

Interesting. When did she say that, if you don't mind me asking?

In The Pegasus Project:

DANIEL: Okay, that's Earth, and that is Taonas.

MORGAN LE FAY: Proclarush Taonas was one of the earliest Lantean cities. It was abandoned when the inhabitants learned their sun was nearing the end of its life.

DANIEL: Yes, thank you, I know. I've been there.

And another quote to approximate when it was abandoned:

CARTER: That's our solar system.

CARTER: Earth?

TEAL'C: That does not appear to be Earth.

DANIEL: That's because it doesn't take into consideration 30 million years of continental drift.

So; a Lantean city in the Milky Way that was abandoned 20-25 million years before the Lanteans left for Pegasus.

Just finished reading this and I must say wow. Everybody here is saying a whole lot of stuff like its fact with little to no evidence. (both sides)

Just another day on Gateworld

A one word quote is not enough evidence to state an absolute in terms of cannon.

Yes, actually it is. That's how science works. When evidence pops up that disproves an earlier hypothesis, then that hypothesis has to be changed or thrown out.

Other then that, neither side seems to have any evidence besides deduction.

I've provided direct quotes from the show to back up what I've been saying. Those who disagree with me have provided nothing to back up what they believe.

Personally I am of the belief that Alterans and Lanteans were of the same technological level.

Back when they were all called the Alterans, that would make sense.

Here is my deductive evidence, which does not prove anything but shows my belief.

There's no such thing as deductive evidence. I think you meant circumstantial evidence, right?

And by the way, you can't prove a belief. The definition of belief is knowing something to be true without evidence, and really, ideas about the history of Stargate should be based on evidence, don't you think?

When the plague hit it has been stated that many Alterans ascended, the majority died out, and a very few survived.

So far so good.

This was millions of years ago, at that time Ancients (I use this term because we have no way of distinguishing between Alterans and Lanteans at this point) had drones, city ships and great big machines (ie Dakara, Time Loop thing etc)

OK, this is where you'd need some evidence to support your claim. I agree with you though, that towards the end of the plague the Alterans died off and the Lanteans started building city-ships.

The development of city-ships might have been the reason some of them survived the plague.
City-Ships have shields. They have forcefields on their gates. They have sensors designed to detect diseases. They can leave a world and fly to a new one if things aren't going well. Being mobile and self-contained would help keep them from being infected.

The Lanteans in Pegasus made no significant changes to their technology in the time between >3million years ago to 10,000 years ago. The same control chairs, drones, stasis chambers, power systems can be found in both places.

Lantean technology hasn't changed significantly in 30 million years. That doesn't mean it hasn't been improved over the years.

To me it seems that the Lanteans were stagnate in both technology and biology. They stopped evolving, they stopped advancing. This is not a short amount of time here but a very long period of time.

They were supposed to be the pinnacle of scientific and technological achievement. Once you get there, improving on it isn't easy.

My point is that they probably made significant improvements over the years without having to make significant changes in their technology.

As a final point. There was no difference given to the Ancients of either galaxy by the writers until season 9 of SGA when they introduced the name Alterans. Until that time Lanteans were just Ancients that lived in Atlantis, I see no reason to make a distinction now.

You just said it yourself: Until season 9 there was no reason to make a distinction. Now there is.

[Durgia]

Yes, actually it is. That's how science works. When evidence pops up that disproves an earlier hypothesis, then that hypothesis has to be changed or thrown out.

Except you are forgetting that this is not science. This is science fiction with heavy emphasis on the fiction. The writers make errors all the time and you cannot take one line of script as flawless evidence to prove a hypothesis.

The writers this season said in Harmony that lanteans made drone tech in Pegasus, which is wrong according to other cannon. The producers came out and said that the script line was a mistake on the writers part. SO a single script line is not evidence to prove or disprove anything.

There's no such thing as deductive evidence. I think you meant circumstantial evidence, right?

No I mean deductive evidence, yes it exists. It is one half of arguing a theoretical debate. Since no hard evidence is available all we have is inductive and deductive evidence and unproved hypothesis.

OK, this is where you'd need some evidence to support your claim. I agree with you though, that towards the end of the plague the Alterans died off and the Lanteans started building city-ships.

City ships were built long before the plague, watch of AoT. It is not the same design but the same principle, they have had them longer then stargates.

Lantean technology hasn't changed significantly in 30 million years. That doesn't mean it hasn't been improved over the years.

improving on previous technology is not the same as having new creative inspiration to develop and progress.

They were supposed to be the pinnacle of scientific and technological achievement. Once you get there, improving on it isn't easy.

I suppose that is true if you hold the belief that is possible to reach a level of technology that cannot be improved upon. Of course if that was true they would not have been killed by a plague, or a wraith or anything else because their technology would be flawless.

They had plenty of time (5-10x the age of our species) to improve their tech and create new tech. All they created was the replicators and that was in the last few thousand years. They were horribly stagnant until the Wraith war, which seemed to motivate them to start inventing again.

[Mister Oragahn]

So the Lantians enjoyed a mix of both monolithic and industrial designs...