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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Colonel Eri13's Avatar
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    Default Meaning of the Name

    Come, Shakespeare experts (or those with general opinions!)

    I'm very curious on the name of this episode, and why it was called 'Be All My Sins Remember'd'--is there something specific it refers to?

    The actual quote comes from Shakespeare's Hamlet, at the end of Hamlet's famous 'to be or not to be' soliloquy. He sees Ophelia has been listening to him muse on death, and says to her:

    Nymph, in thy orisons, be all my sins remember'd
    .

    The Literal translation is: Nymph, in your prayers be all my sins remembered, or remember my sins in your prayers to God. On a wider analysis, people believe he is asking for her to pray to God to punish him for all his sins.

    In the soliloquy, he had been contemplating suicide and death. He decides to live because his own consciousness could not move past the fear that taking one's life (or just dying in general) might actually have consequences in the afterlife (such as hell).

    Why did the writers choose it? Was it in reference to what Hamlet says or just a good set of words? I'm curious to know if anyone else is intrigued. They also pulled "This Mortal Coil" from that soliloquy.

    For my part
    Spoiler:


    I think they're referring to the fact that the entire involvement with the Replicators has been the fault of Atlantis expedition (much like the Wraith), and those are the sins--they provoked them, rewrote their base code twice (which led them to attack both the Ancients and the innocents of Pegasus) , and in the battle with them, formed a treaty with their worst enemies (the Wraith), offered up sacrifices (the guy from "Miller's Crossing" and FRAN), and lost Weir.

    Or maybe Weir is Ophelia? She and her team are now the last of the Pegasus replicators--whether she's dupli!Weir or real Weir, she is possessed/created courtesy the replicators. Is it through her being alive that 'all the sins are remembered?'
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  2. #2
    Lieutenant General Mitchell82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Eri13 View Post
    Come, Shakespeare experts (or those with general opinions!)

    I'm very curious on the name of this episode, and why it was called 'Be All My Sins Remember'd'--is there something specific it refers to?

    The actual quote comes from Shakespeare's Hamlet, at the end of Hamlet's famous 'to be or not to be' soliloquy. He sees Ophelia has been listening to him muse on death, and says to her:

    .

    The Literal translation is: Nymph, in your prayers be all my sins remembered, or remember my sins in your prayers to God. On a wider analysis, people believe he is asking for her to pray to God to punish him for all his sins.

    In the soliloquy, he had been contemplating suicide and death. He decides to live because his own consciousness could not move past the fear that taking one's life (or just dying in general) might actually have consequences in the afterlife (such as hell).

    Why did the writers choose it? Was it in reference to what Hamlet says or just a good set of words? I'm curious to know if anyone else is intrigued. They also pulled "This Mortal Coil" from that soliloquy.

    For my part
    Spoiler:


    I think they're referring to the fact that the entire involvement with the Replicators has been the fault of Atlantis expedition (much like the Wraith), and those are the sins--they provoked them, rewrote their base code twice (which led them to attack both the Ancients and the innocents of Pegasus) , and in the battle with them, formed a treaty with their worst enemies (the Wraith), offered up sacrifices (the guy from "Miller's Crossing" and FRAN), and lost Weir.

    Or maybe Weir is Ophelia? She and her team are now the last of the Pegasus replicators--whether she's dupli!Weir or real Weir, she is possessed/created courtesy the replicators. Is it through her being alive that 'all the sins are remembered?'
    I think you are spot on with your analasis. However the most I remember about that play is the first part of that speech. High school was a very long time ago.
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  3. #3
    Major General
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    I haven't really thought about it, my initial interpretation was that it probably means that what they've done, for what ever reason, will come back and bite them in the arse.

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    I was trying to figure out what the episode name was in reference to myself. I figured it was allying with the wraith and actually being the cause of the Asurans, but you put it far better then I could of.

  5. #5
    General Jumper_One's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    From "Hamlet" Act 3 Scene 1

    spoilered for size
    Spoiler:
    To be or not to be, that is the question;
    Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
    And by opposing, end them. To die, to sleep;
    No more; and by a sleep to say we end
    The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
    That flesh is heir to — 'tis a consummation
    Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
    To sleep, perchance to dream. Ay, there's the rub,
    For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
    When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
    Must give us pause. There's the respect
    That makes calamity of so long life,
    For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
    Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
    The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
    The insolence of office, and the spurns
    That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
    When he himself might his quietus make
    With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
    To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
    But that the dread of something after death,
    The undiscovered country from whose bourn
    No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
    And makes us rather bear those ills we have
    Than fly to others that we know not of?
    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
    And thus the native hue of resolution
    Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
    And enterprises of great pitch and moment
    With this regard their currents turn awry,
    And lose the name of action.-- Soft you now!
    The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
    Be all my sins remember'd.


    and no I'm not a Shakespeare expert, this was posted by The Maneuver in one of the TMC threads

  6. #6

    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Doing evil to stop evil is a posibility

  7. #7
    Lieutenant Colonel Ltcolshepjumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.
    Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...
    http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=12118
    ... or that any man can measure the tides and hurricanes he will
    encounter on the strange journey.


    Spoiler:

    2 Cor. 10:3-5
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  8. #8
    General Jumper_One's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    from JM's blog

    Rose (formerly OhioAnne) writes: “What is the significance of the title?”

    Martin G:

    To be, or not to be: that is the question:
    Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
    And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
    No more; and by a sleep to say we end
    The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
    That flesh is heir to, ’tis a consummation
    Devoutly to be wish’d. To die, to sleep;
    To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the r
    For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
    When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
    Must give us pause: there’s the respect
    That makes calamity of so long life;
    For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
    The oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely,
    The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay,
    The insolence of office and the spurns
    That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
    When he himself might his quietus make
    With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
    To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
    But that the dread of something after death,
    The undiscover’d country from whose bourn
    No traveller returns, puzzles the will
    And makes us rather bear those ills we have
    Than fly to others that we know not of?
    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
    And thus the native hue of resolution
    Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought,
    And enterprises of great pith and moment
    With this regard their currents turn awry,
    And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
    The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
    Be all my sins remember’d.

  9. #9
    Lieutenant Colonel kirmit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    I think it basically means revenge, the Asurans sins were wiping out all those human populations, the remembered part is us getting revenge on them by wiping them out, that's under the assumption an AI can have sins.....

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel Eri13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_One View Post
    from JM's blog
    Yeah, I knew where it came from, it was nice of Marty to quote the soliloquy, but I really wanted to know why those two lines. "This Mortal Coil" makes sense to me (in the monologue it means "the living body" and the big question in TMC was whether the clones were 'human' or not.)

    But "Be All my Sins Remember'd" is much more perplexing. I'd love to know his thinking behind why that line, since it's not as clear.
    Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

  11. #11
    Chief Master Sergeant muffinnuffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltcolshepjumper View Post
    I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.
    I quite like that idea.

    In terms of the Asurans...

    Spoiler:
    I suppose BAMSR can be taken to mean that Weir and her possible Replicator Friends are the 'sins' of the whole war and they're not going without being remembered?


    I did Hamlet last year, you'd think I'd be able to figure something out...
    The Geek shall inherit the earth

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  12. #12
    Major Cap116's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    I think that is the real Weir, not a RepliWeir. The only reason I say that is because of the uniform she is wearing. They didn't switch to that uniform till after she left. So take that in to consideration.

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  13. #13
    Colonel s09119's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltcolshepjumper View Post
    I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.
    The Wraith arose on their own; the Ancients came across them on a "dark world" one day, remember?

    But I think the titles are good... "This Mortal Coil" refers to the team 'shedding' their physical forms (in a sense) to become the RepliTeam, even though it's later revealed that the originals are still around. And "Be all My Sins Remember'd" refers to the alliance with the Wraith, their long-time enemy and a race that wants nothing more than to obliterate them.
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  14. #14
    First Lieutenant Ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    I think refers to the replicator woman they made as one of the sins

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant ori soldier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    the ancients created the asurans and this apart from weirs ship sees the end of replicaters so i think its to do with that instead of too do with earth


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  16. #16
    Probie DeathDealer19's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Given the names of the two episodes and Weir's involvement in both of them my interpretation would be something like this:

    When we have shuffled off this mortal coil
    Theoretically Weir's now semi-inmortal (now that the nanites inside her repair her body every time something happens to it), so the "mortal coil" would be Weir's "weak" human body.

    The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
    Be all my sins remember’d.
    This would also be about Weir since everyone believes she's dead and she has all the time in the universe to do whatever she wants to do, the part that relates to her is leaving her past life behind her, now being the leader of the remnants of the Asurans.
    Elizabeth Weir, Ph. D.: I'm still trying to understand how you thought it was a good idea to test this device by having someone throw you off a balcony.
    Dr. Rodney McKay: Oh, believe me, that's not the first thing we tried.
    Maj. John Sheppard: [Smug] I shot him.
    [Dr. Weir gives him "the look"]
    Maj. John Sheppard: In the leg!
    Dr. Rodney McKay: I'm invulnerable!
    Elizabeth Weir, Ph. D.: Aren't you the one who's always spouting off about how proper and careful scientific procedure must be adhered to?
    Dr. Rodney McKay: [Smug] In-vul-nerable!

  17. #17
    Staff Sergeant Enokrad's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Meaning of the Name

    Weir is their sin and it will be remember.
    When they used Weir to get the ZPM, they may have saved Atlantis and the expedition from the vacuum of space, but they gave up the most knowledgeable member of the expedition and mostly the one who knew Earth's and the Milky Way"s location better than anyone (asides McKay). It resulted in their survival (to live another day) and led in getting rid of the Raplicators (and allowing the wraith going back to work culling worlds). Weir is still alive in whatever form. 100% replicator or less makes no difference. She seems to have a plan, or better yet a purpose. Fran was more than willing to give her life to fulfill her purpose. What will Weir do to complete hers? Also, in creating Fran, McKay will now be cockier than ever. He will show it with messing around with the nanotechnology machine even further. lets see where that leads them. In the end, despite all their glorious achievements this time (even ending up not getting stabbed in the back), The Powers That Be are working hard in the background to create all those little things that will bring them to the eve of disaster (again) in the future. And then, their sins shall be remember'd.

  18. #18
    Major General
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Enokrad View Post
    Weir is their sin and it will be remember.
    When they used Weir to get the ZPM, they may have saved Atlantis and the expedition from the vacuum of space, but they gave up the most knowledgeable member of the expedition and mostly the one who knew Earth's and the Milky Way"s location better than anyone (asides McKay). It resulted in their survival (to live another day) and led in getting rid of the Raplicators (and allowing the wraith going back to work culling worlds). Weir is still alive in whatever form. 100% replicator or less makes no difference. She seems to have a plan, or better yet a purpose. Fran was more than willing to give her life to fulfill her purpose. What will Weir do to complete hers? Also, in creating Fran, McKay will now be cockier than ever. He will show it with messing around with the nanotechnology machine even further. lets see where that leads them. In the end, despite all their glorious achievements this time (even ending up not getting stabbed in the back), The Powers That Be are working hard in the background to create all those little things that will bring them to the eve of disaster (again) in the future. And then, their sins shall be remember'd.
    Are you kidding?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    i am no expert but i believe that is a double play on both the ancients and the atlantis expedition.
    it has always been that humans, or mostly in this case the sgc tends to consider the ancients a buch of arrogants that were doing a lot of very dangerous stuff and not cleaning up their messes.
    but also i believe is kind of a yardstick if you remember when the sg-1 visits the world of the nox, they simply dissmiss them as children playing with really big toys.
    now the atlantis expedition is engaging in the very hubris that was the eventual downfall of the ancients.
    great tasks, great develompment, but not really thinking through the consequences.
    in the end i believe that both episodes refer more to the immortalization of the mistakes of both the ancients and the earth humans, and how it has all come together in one place.

  20. #20
    Major Shan Bruce Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meaning of the Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltcolshepjumper View Post
    I think it refers to the two great sins of the Ancients- the Wraith and the Asurans.
    That's good enough for me. Plus the fact that Atlantis has had issues with both.

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