Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How far is too far? Sheppard's Actions in MC.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    How far is too far? Sheppard's Actions in MC.

    How far is too far?

    Morality is not an absolute; it is fluid; it is defined by the situation. A simple example: killing someone is not murder if they are trying to kill you. Morality can be very complex. Acting morally may be choosing the lesser of two evils or the logically best course of action for the most people. It is doing what produces the maximum benefit, irrespective of the outcome to the individual making the choice.

    Is it doing what produces the maximum benefit, irrespective of the outcome to any one individual?

    Can Sheppard’s actions in Miller’s Crossing be justified?
    sigpic

    #2
    Was what Sheppard did ethical or moral? That is debatable.

    History is filled with events in which doing the immoral was the best course of action. Was it a personal highlight of his? Probably not. But in the end, it was his life or billions of others and the best hope of survival for two species.
    http://www.change.gov

    The reason you should vote Republican in 2010.

    Comment


      #3
      Sheppard gave the man a choice - the way people are writing are as if he pushed Wallace in there with the Wraith which is an (imo) incorrectly simplistic interpretation.

      Sheppard is clearly uncomfortable with it as shown in the conversation at the end. When Rodney assumes he must have talked the guy into feeding himself to the Wraith, Sheppard specifically says that he didn't but that he told Wallace the score and the guy volunteered.

      The man's daughter was dead, he had been arrested and was going to prison for an extremely long time (especially considering he is a vast security risk). Not only that but his actions were going to lead to Jeannie's death. I can understand that given the option to help save her he would take it rather than letting her die and spending the rest of his days alone locked away somewhere.

      I think Sheppard doesn't like himself much at the end because he suggested it to Wallace not because he made the guy do it or forced a decision on him.

      One of things I've always liked about Atlantis is that it is less black and white than some shows and I think this was a perfect demonstration that went just far enough to be interesting without making you dislike the character.
      sigpic
      by Kaaatie

      Comment


        #4
        To be fair we didn't see either way if Wallace agreed or not. John says he did but he could be trying to convince himself of that. Either way it was the right call not a pleasant one but with the state of affairs in Pegasus Mckay is invaluable at the moment.
        A word of advice... there are creatures that live between this dimension and the next, fiendish creatures that feast on the suffering of an entire world to satiate their eternal hunger. Support the Gateworld Cantina or suffer the fate of all who fall into the clutches of the 'Eladrith Ynneas'

        Comment


          #5
          Wallace may of been guilty of a lot of things...but Wallace also wasn't in the right frame of mind. He obviously wasn't thinking like a normal human being. He just lost his wife and now his only child was dying.

          Yes, the man made major mistakes and made major screw ups that endangered Jenny but what was wallace frame of mind when sheppard "presented the situation" to him?

          No one in any of their post have brought up Wallace mental state. He obviously wasn't criminally insane under US law becuase he knew what he was doing was wrong however he was desperate and depressed.

          If you have someone suffering from depression you don't place a loaded gun in front of them.

          Sheppard essentially did just that. I mean heck, shep put the gun in the man's hand and helped him him at his at his own head...being metaphoric here.

          You have a man who just lost everything--he took a huge gamble becuase he wasn't in his frame of mind to begin with. You tell them that if he "volunteers" to die that everything can be made right. What depressed person with nothing to gain would turn that down. That's a no brainer.

          Wallace was legally responsible for his actions but his mental state would play a role in his trial.

          Then to top that all off:

          McKay reports that in the end he bought his sister a new car after he got her in trouble. How lame?

          So Wallace's life was worth a Prism to Mrs. Miller.

          IMO TPTB did cross that moral line in this ep and never even brought up the victem's mental state. Just that he had nothing to live for and he could fix everything by dying.

          The ep would have been more realistic of Jenny did die in the end and Wallace went to a mental facility.
          Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric.

          Comment


            #6
            Was it moral ant ethical to let Wallace be feed on by a Wraith? Absolutely not. That being said history shows that something we have to sacrfice morals to do what is right. The fact that Sheppard showed remorse for actions speaks highly of his character.
            Originally posted by aretood2
            Jelgate is right

            Comment


              #7
              Oh, I didn't even consider that Wallace didn't volunteer and Shep forced him to do it anyway. Certainly a possibility since we never saw Wallace make his decision. Creepy.

              Comment


                #8
                I liked what Sheppard did. Weather Wallace was in the right state of mind or not doesn't matter. He wasn't so crazy that he cuoldn't control his actions. He even said that when he said he knew he was gonna go to jail for kidnapping and he intentionally put McKay's sister's life in danger. All Sheppard did was said there's a way for you to accept your punishment and make things right at the same time.
                || Star Stream || Destiny Song || The Four Suns (My Band) || The Art of War <<== listen please!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ToasterOnFire View Post
                  Oh, I didn't even consider that Wallace didn't volunteer and Shep forced him to do it anyway. Certainly a possibility since we never saw Wallace make his decision. Creepy.
                  That's a stretch. There's nothing to support that Wallace was forced to do anything he didn't want to do. I mean if Shep was just gonna force him then why bother showing him the pictures and everything.
                  || Star Stream || Destiny Song || The Four Suns (My Band) || The Art of War <<== listen please!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                    Was it moral ant ethical to let Wallace be feed on by a Wraith? Absolutely not. That being said history shows that something we have to sacrfice morals to do what is right. The fact that Sheppard showed remorse for actions speaks highly of his character.

                    But was Wallace in the right frame of mind to make that decision? Was Wallace dying himself? Was Wallace not affected by any trauma? Was Wallace able to get council and have access to representation? Did Wallace understand the fact that his death would be cruel and painful? Not like he was just put sleep their?

                    Did Wallace's punishment fit his crime--since Jenny does live?

                    How can you say that history shows examples of sacrifice morals to do what's right? Give me an example of that statement becuase morals and "right" are the same thing in most cases.
                    Grammar, Logic, Rhetoric.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jackie View Post
                      Wallace may of been guilty of a lot of things...but Wallace also wasn't in the right frame of mind. He obviously wasn't thinking like a normal human being. He just lost his wife and now his only child was dying.
                      No, by that point she was dead and he was facing what would possibly be the rest of his life in a top security prison, likely isolated for the security risk he posed not mention he'd basically put a death sentence on an innocent woman. I'd say in the end he made the noble choice when he considered what he actually had to live for...
                      sigpic
                      by Kaaatie

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Shan Bruce Lee View Post
                        That's a stretch. There's nothing to support that Wallace was forced to do anything he didn't want to do. I mean if Shep was just gonna force him then why bother showing him the pictures and everything.
                        I agree, we have no proof Wallace was forced to let Todd feed on him. overall it's debatable of course but since we don't know what really happened in that room...
                        sigpic
                        The Sam Carter/Amanda Tapping Thunk thread The Sam/RepliCarter Ship Thread

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jackie View Post

                          Did Wallace's punishment fit his crime--since Jenny does live?
                          Jenny died.
                          Yes, the man made major mistakes and made major screw ups that endangered Jenny but what was wallace frame of mind when sheppard "presented the situation" to him?
                          Actually, if we were to take the law to the logical conclusion he murdered his daughter.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Shan Bruce Lee View Post
                            That's a stretch. There's nothing to support that Wallace was forced to do anything he didn't want to do. I mean if Shep was just gonna force him then why bother showing him the pictures and everything.
                            At first I didn't realize what they were doing. Then I saw the pictures and realized he was trying to make Wallace feel guilty for what he had done.
                            Wallace had nothing to live for. So he sacraficed his life for a good cause. And I would rather have him die than have McKay die.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ToasterOnFire View Post
                              Oh, I didn't even consider that Wallace didn't volunteer and Shep forced him to do it anyway. Certainly a possibility since we never saw Wallace make his decision. Creepy.
                              might play later in the season or next year. ( the fallout)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X