4x05 - The Most Immature Episode Ever ~the Episode that Ruined Atlantis~

[KiLL3r]

you must live in a near womenless world because if you think she was scantily clad you obviously dont go outside much.


she didnt show off enuf tbh

[FallenAngelII]

you must live in a near womenless world because if you think she was scantily clad you obviously dont go outside much.


she didnt show off enuf tbh

I never claimed that Larrin was scantily clad. We've, however, seen tons of such women on Atlantis, yet very few men (and none of them have flirted with the female or even male expedition members, or anyone else for that matter).

If scantily clad and sexually promiscuous people are such a normal occurence, then it should be equal opportunity.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Oh Fallen... this is going to be a fun debate.

*cough*

I just knew I was in for a piece of (crappy) work when the episode starts with Rodney taking a shot at John volunteering to go on a boring mission because the indigenous people (and I quote) "had little to no social inhibitions" to which John responds that they were "very friendly". Oh yes, PTB, very mature.

Oh yes, I couldn't agree more very immature, because men just don't have that banter in real life do they? None of the men I know would tease the other in that manner, or talk about women that way, or how sexy they are. How would you define no social inhibitions then FAII? Have you never had any banter like this with your friends? Very friendly can have a variety of connotations, maybe it's just your dirt mind FAII? Don't worry, there's nothing wrong with having a dirty mind, it's all good, especially the images it conjures up.

And then, he gets taken captive and who should pop up as the leader of said captors? While all of the male captors are clad in brown possible mocha leather, she lone female (who, in according to Stargate practice is "hot") is clad in black leather... with deep cleavage. Yes, let's not just make the alien hot, but because she's got big breasts, she must have a deep cleavage.

*looks at her own ample cleavage and smiles proudly* And showing off cleavage equals? Just incase you didn't know Fallen, BIG BOOBS = BIG CLEAVAGE! You might want to trust me on this one. I speak from experience.

What's next, I thought? The obvious answer (and what I immediately assumed upon seeing her) was lots of 'UST' and sexual innuendo. It starts out pretty innocently with "Be a shame to have to do too much damage" - Not bad, but you just knew it'd go downhill from there.

Oh yes, UST should just be banished, because it's just so wrong having a male and female attracted to each other. How dare they enjoy flirting? Don't they realise that it's just sinful and they should each of them be wearing chastity belts and not make any eye contact whatsoever. It's disgraceful that a man and woman should find themselves attracted to each other. TPTB should be ashamed of themselves. Actually the best innuendo line was, "Don't shoot too early... I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that for a woman!"

Then Joe Flanigan himself gave us a very shameful moment. What was said moment? I believe it was The Jamie Kennedy Experiment that once featured an experiment where a woman wore a baggy shirt and went out with a fake petition, trying to get random men on the street to stop and talk to her. Almost no one did. But once she switched into one with a big cleavage, they did. And they kept staring down at it, exposing themselves to the hidden camera in her broach or whatever.

Okay, work with me her FAII JF is the actor... Shep is the character. Let's try and keep the two seperate shall we? Okay throwing this out to the guys out there (and some gay men who like the female form) What man hasn't checked out a woman's cleavage? And SHEP staring at Larrin's cleavage this is something new for a man... how? I mean it's not like a lot of men don't like T&A is it? Sorry boys I do seem to be generalising. I mean i've never known a man to flirt, or to buy porn or girl mags or talk to a woman's cleavage... IIRC, Rodney is a bigger tart than Shep is. He's the one who always talks about hot women, getting captured by them, checks them out, legs, butt, boobs, smiles, flirting... shall I list said episodes?

So what did Joe Flanigan do? At 06:43, his gaze inexplicably drifts from her eye-level down to her chest-level and then quickly back up again. Either he suddenly found the chalice she was holding extremely interesting in the middle of her speech or he just wanted to "sneak a peek". However, as the Jamie Kennedy Experiment proved, it's a very heterosexual male thing to do, what with breast being indoctrined as one of the most important parts of a woman's body and all, so we can't completely blame him.

06.43? Well, I guess timing really is everything. larrin did say Shep shouldn't shoot his load too early, so I guess someone had to keep an eye on the clock. So what you're actually saying here then is that you agree with me. I knew you'd come round to my way of thinking... everyone does eventually. And it's Shep, not Joe... again felt the need to clarify. And i'd be greatful if you could post a cap of said shameless looking at boobs, please.

This was followed by Laryn saying "There's all kinds of useful things you could do for me" followed by "goofy music". And since we know the bar's set pretty low, of course it's a double entendre.

Ahhhh I see the scene you mean... it's the one where he's looking up at her from a seating postion as she leans precariously over him... *watches scene again* Oh yes, that scene was shamefull wasn't it? How dare you look directly into her eyes when he should be looking at her boobs!! What sort of a man is he? He should be ashamed of himself... or do you mean that little nanosecond that he looks down and thinks about what she's said... yeah I guess that could be construed at looking at her boobs. Trust me hon, you know someone's looking at your boobs when they talk to your chest first then to you!

As for the double entendre, I guess it all depends on how your mind is set, your's is obviously set to 'dirty'. Don't panic, it doesn't mean that you're bad, it simply means it just means you're extremely shallow. Welcome to the gutter btw! Besides I think you'll find that it's Larrin who was the smut Queen. If you can give me ONE example of Shep initiating the innuendo, then i'll give you some green jello. I bet you won't find one!

And then I won't bore you, or myself, with the details because I'm currently too mad at the writers to view the entire episode again, but was anyone surprised they'd eventually be locked up in "close quarters" together. It's one of the ultimate clichés, The UST in the Closet-moment.

Oh please bore me, i'm having a touch of insomnia at the moment. So you could really help me out there! Thanks!

Don't knock the closet until you've tried it.

And then she was fed on. Of course, we all assumed she'd die and we'd finally get rid of the immature theme, but nooooooo. The moment the Wraith said he hadn't completely killed her (at first I was so glad, I was elated), we all knew the Gift of Life was coming (and what a sucky episode to reintroduce something so great in, much like how Kolya appeared briefly in Irresponsible only to die at the end of it). Then he bent down to "help her get up" and what the Hell was the man doing?! Who the Hell helps someone get up from the floor by putting one arm around their waist?! You do it by taking her hand(s) and pulling them up! That was soooo copping a feel.

Damn those PTB for their continuity with the gift of life! Have they no shame? Did you really see the it coming? Just thought i'd clarify, that no it wasn't a double entendre, that was just your dirty mind again.

Don't fall off your chair FAII! BUT, I actually agree with you that CG was a great ep. I think this is a first, but don't go feeling special as i'm not done yet. I'm saving myself for the final climax

Tell me he didn't bend down and pick her up of the floor!!! That's absolutely disgracefull! He should have kicked her while she was down and just taken advantage of the opportunity! Oh wait isn't that what you're implying? So, putting your arm round someone's waist is considered??? I gather you're not a first aider then? He wasn't sure whether she could stand and thought he might have to carry her so the arm went to the back first, then to the waist when she was standing... have you NEVER supported someone by the waist if they were feeling woozy? So if he'd have dragged her up by the arms, that would have suited you better? So he grabbed her by the waist? That automatically makes him what?

This was, of course followed by a "his face close to hers" moment (complete with heavy breathing), followed by her stumbling and even more close-face-time (as cliché dictates). And then they kissed. We all knew it was gonna happen. By the way, see my companion thread, "Why Colonel Space Slut Should Not Be In Command", for my reaction on this.

Oh trust me if Sheppard was heavy breathing i'd have been the first to notice. Her stumbling, was Larrin using her faminine wiles... some women are sneaky like that, and if done correctly can bring a man to his knees....

Actually she kissed him. Hehehe oh I so look forward to visiting that thread... unless of course you don't want someone like me visiting, and posting.

I really thought the writers, producers and everyone involved in this show would have learned by now.

For those who don't know, which three episodes do you think got voted in as Worst Episodes in Stargate Atlantis History for seasons 1-2? Yes, that's right, Sanctuary (John x Chaya), The Tower (John x Space Slut Bimbo Princess Whose Name I Can Never Remember) and Epiphany (John x Delusional Teer). And which two episodes were the by far most hated episodes of season three (if not Stargate history)? That's right, Irresistible (by far more hated) followed by Irresponsible.

Figures please compared to the other ones. Thank you.

"Goofy" and "Funny" little episodes based on double entendres, sexual tension and general immatureness are not popular among Stargate fans. Maybe they assumed the fans here on Gateworld are just part of some snooty little "No Immature Boy Humour"-club, but really?

And you know this by what? Asked the whole viewing fandom, conducted a poll, got a focus group together? Facts and figures, please FAII.

Of course, John didn't tell Rodney the entire story (good job at lying, man!), but Rodney knew right away and had to point it out. At least we didn't hear the word "Kirk".

Ah you forgot to add that it was Rodney that wanted to be taken by the sexy alien. And you also obviously forgot about Teyla's rolling of eyes... she's obviously used to it... and wasn't phased by it all. Why was that do you think?

Please tell me I'm not going insane. Please tell me that you straight guys didn't find the episode really, really entertaining and well written. As a gay man who has absolutely no sexual interest in the episode, I found it insulting. Not just to women (by how they're treated as sexual objects on Stargate) and to John (by how detrimental this episode was to his character) but to us viewers as well, that they'd resort to this adolescent boy-girl-sex-humour!

Would it make you feel better if I said you weren't as nutty as a fruit cake, and are taking this way to seriously. Sorry can't help you there. I think you've blown this way out of proportion and can only see Shep as being the 'Kirker' i'm sure I could provide you of so much material of Rodney 'kirking'. You know, just to keep things in perspective.

Didn't you know that sex sells?

[FallenAngelII]

Oh yes, I couldn't agree more very immature, because men just don't have that banter in real life do they? None of the men I know would tease the other in that manner, or talk about women that way, or how sexy they are. How would you define no social inhibitions then FAII? Have you never had any banter like this with your friends? Very friendly can have a variety of connotations, maybe it's just your dirt mind FAII? Don't worry, there's nothing wrong with having a dirty mind, it's all good, especially the images it conjures up.

It was not the banter itself that I was complaining about, it was the obvious allusion to sex the writers were making. Why would John volunteer for a boring baby-sitting job, anyway? The writers are obviously indicating that while the indigenous people might not have been having rampant sex on the streets, they might not have been heavily clad or had any qualms about making out on the streets or fondling John.

*looks at her own ample cleavage and smiles proudly* And showing off cleavage equals? Just incase you didn't know Fallen, BIG BOOBS = BIG CLEAVAGE! You might want to trust me on this one. I speak from experience.

The problem is that she's got big boobs. The problem is that whenever a Stargate actress has boobs, the writers give her something that shows off said boobs.

Oh yes, UST should just be banished, because it's just so wrong having a male and female attracted to each other. How dare they enjoy flirting? Don't they realise that it's just sinful and they should each of them be wearing chastity belts and not make any eye contact whatsoever. It's disgraceful that a man and woman should find themselves attracted to each other. TPTB should be ashamed of themselves. Actually the best innuendo line was, "Don't shoot too early... I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that for a woman!"

Because it's detrimental to John's character. We already have such lowpoints as Sanctuary, The Tower and Epiphany, voted three worst episodes of Seasons 1-2 here on Gateworld

Okay, work with me her FAII JF is the actor... Shep is the character. Let's try and keep the two seperate shall we? Okay throwing this out to the guys out there (and some gay men who like the female form) What man hasn't checked out a woman's cleavage? And SHEP staring at Larrin's cleavage this is something new for a man... how? I mean it's not like a lot of men don't like T&A is it? Sorry boys I do seem to be generalising. I mean i've never known a man to flirt, or to buy porn or girl mags or talk to a woman's cleavage... IIRC, Rodney is a bigger tart than Shep is. He's the one who always talks about hot women, getting captured by them, checks them out, legs, butt, boobs, smiles, flirting... shall I list said episodes?

The question is why did they add it into the episode?! Rodney talks the talk, but John walks the walk. Also, Rodney was equally immature in this episode, only he didn't actually Kirk himself.

06.43? Well, I guess timing really is everything. larrin did say Shep shouldn't shoot his load too early, so I guess someone had to keep an eye on the clock. So what you're actually saying here then is that you agree with me. I knew you'd come round to my way of thinking... everyone does eventually. And it's Shep, not Joe... again felt the need to clarify. And i'd be greatful if you could post a cap of said shameless looking at boobs, please.

Oh yes, I forgot about the shooting too early. Another low point. Why should I post a cap because you're too lazy to revisit the episode?

Ahhhh I see the scene you mean... it's the one where he's looking up at her from a seating postion as she leans precariously over him... *watches scene again* Oh yes, that scene was shamefull wasn't it? How dare you look directly into her eyes when he should be looking at her boobs!! What sort of a man is he? He should be ashamed of himself... or do you mean that little nanosecond that he looks down and thinks about what she's said... yeah I guess that could be construed at looking at her boobs. Trust me hon, you know someone's looking at your boobs when they talk to your chest first then to you!

He doesn't look down to the ground. He does that later. He does, however, look down at her chest-level. At least he had enough class not to start out staring at her boobs.

As for the double entendre, I guess it all depends on how your mind is set, your's is obviously set to 'dirty'. Don't panic, it doesn't mean that you're bad, it simply means it just means you're extremely shallow. Welcome to the gutter btw! Besides I think you'll find that it's Larrin who was the smut Queen. If you can give me ONE example of Shep initiating the innuendo, then i'll give you some green jello. I bet you won't find one!

Are you denying the fact that the episode was chock-full of innuendo? And pray tell, point out a single sentence in my posts where I have claimed that John "initiated an innuendo". This is not the "John Sheppard Is A Bad Man"-thread (that's the other thread). This is a thread about the bad writing of this episode. I'm blaming the writers for the double entendres (and by proxy also Larrin's character). Read before you respond.

Damn those PTB for their continuity with the gift of life! Have they no shame? Did you really see the it coming? Just thought i'd clarify, that no it wasn't a double entendre, that was just your dirty mind again.

I was just pointing out the pointlessness of reintroducing it in such a pointless episode.

Tell me he didn't bend down and pick her up of the floor!!! That's absolutely disgracefull! He should have kicked her while she was down and just taken advantage of the opportunity! Oh wait isn't that what you're implying? So, putting your arm round someone's waist is considered??? I gather you're not a first aider then? He wasn't sure whether she could stand and thought he might have to carry her so the arm went to the back first, then to the waist when she was standing... have you NEVER supported someone by the waist if they were feeling woozy? So if he'd have dragged her up by the arms, that would have suited you better? So he grabbed her by the waist? That automatically makes him what?

It's part of the big ball of wax. Had it just been that arm snaking around her waist, then I wouldn't have minded. But as part of the big ball of wax, yah.

Oh trust me if Sheppard was heavy breathing i'd have been the first to notice. Her stumbling, was Larrin using her faminine wiles... some women are sneaky like that, and if done correctly can bring a man to his knees....

Smart men who don't think with their penises would not fall for it.

Actually she kissed him. Hehehe oh I so look forward to visiting that thread... unless of course you don't want someone like me visiting, and posting.

She was the first leaned in, but he opened his mouth and leaned forward slightly. While she initiated the make-out session, John had no problems going with it. This is not a case of "She kissed him and he didn't have enough time to react!". After all, it wasn't just a chaste kiss, they had initiated a make-out session (as the wet sound of two open mouthed kisses indicate).

And you know this by what? Asked the whole viewing fandom, conducted a poll, got a focus group together? Facts and figures, please FAII.

Polls. Conducted here on Gateworld with over 150 votes. "Sanctuary", "The Tower" and "Epiphany" took Top3 of "Worst Episodes in Stargate History" with most of the voters citing the Kirking and immature Kirk-humour back before Season 3 aired.

Then "Irresistible" and "Irresponsible" aired and another poll decided that they were the worst episodes of Season 3.

Ah you forgot to add that it was Rodney that wanted to be taken by the sexy alien. And you also obviously forgot about Teyla's rolling of eyes... she's obviously used to it... and wasn't phased by it all. Why was that do you think?

And this makes the episode less immature how?

Would it make you feel better if I said you weren't as nutty as a fruit cake, and are taking this way to seriously. Sorry can't help you there. I think you've blown this way out of proportion and can only see Shep as being the 'Kirker' i'm sure I could provide you of so much material of Rodney 'kirking'. You know, just to keep things in perspective.

I have never once claimed that Rodney's never Kirked in his entire life. Try to find a single word in my post where I claim that. The fact that Rodney might or might not have Kirked in the past does not in any way redeem John. It's like saying you killed 10 children, but someone else just killed 25, so your crime is really "not that bad":

Also, Rodney has never in his Stargate history Kirked. While he's tried flirting with random aliens, he's always failed in the past. That is not the definition of Kirking. And he's only done it twice, once upon the insistance of John ("The Brotherhood") since he didn't even notice the perceived UST until John pointed it out to him. Then he might've tried something with Norrina. It's hardly on the same scale as John.

Didn't you know that sex sells?

Did you know that in the Middle East, a woman can be stoned to death by having an affair while men aren't? Does this make it right? Just because something happens does not make it right.

[Redhooks]

The problem is that she's got big boobs. The problem is that whenever a Stargate actress has boobs, the writers give her something that shows off said boobs.

I think the costume had a wonder bra or padding in it because Jill Wagner is a 34B. I don't consider those big, but maybe just about right.

[FallenAngelII]

I think the costume had a wonder bra or padding in it because Jill Wagner is a 34B. I don't consider those big, but maybe just about right.

Then it's even worse. If an actress doesn't have breasts that are "big enough", the producers will have her wear a wonderbra and/or padding to make them even bigger!

[Salas1]

Did you know that in the Middle East, a woman can be stoned to death by having an affair while men aren't? Does this make it right? Just because something happens does not make it right.

Wow talk about clutching at straws.

Men are frequently used as sex objects as well if you hadn't noticed, by the way, Ronon is as 'scantily clad' in all episodes he's been in as Larrin was in this single episode. But he doesn't have big boobs, so it's alright by you.

Also, that banter is well written and is pretty much exactly how it would be reacted to in a real situation.

[FallenAngelII]

Wow talk about clutching at straws.

Men are frequently used as sex objects as well if you hadn't noticed, by the way, Ronon is as 'scantily clad' in all episodes he's been in as Larrin was in this single episode. But he doesn't have big boobs, so it's alright by you.

Point out a single man that's been used as Kirking material for a female member of the expedition.

Also, Ronon is scantily clad, you say? In which episodes would these be? Or do you count no sleeves as scantily clad? Because his normal attire is a sleeveless shirts of some kind and leather pants (brown) followed by boots. The only arts of his body not covered are his arms and head.

And really, that's not scanty.

Also, that banter is well written and is pretty much exactly how it would be reacted to in a real situation.

Wow, the sexual banter was well written and not cliché or stupid at all?

"Don't shoot to early" - "I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that from a woman".

[Linzi]

Oh Fallen... this is going to be a fun debate.

*cough*



Oh yes, I couldn't agree more very immature, because men just don't have that banter in real life do they? None of the men I know would tease the other in that manner, or talk about women that way, or how sexy they are. How would you define no social inhibitions then FAII? Have you never had any banter like this with your friends? Very friendly can have a variety of connotations, maybe it's just your dirt mind FAII? Don't worry, there's nothing wrong with having a dirty mind, it's all good, especially the images it conjures up.



*looks at her own ample cleavage and smiles proudly* And showing off cleavage equals? Just incase you didn't know Fallen, BIG BOOBS = BIG CLEAVAGE! You might want to trust me on this one. I speak from experience.



Oh yes, UST should just be banished, because it's just so wrong having a male and female attracted to each other. How dare they enjoy flirting? Don't they realise that it's just sinful and they should each of them be wearing chastity belts and not make any eye contact whatsoever. It's disgraceful that a man and woman should find themselves attracted to each other. TPTB should be ashamed of themselves. Actually the best innuendo line was, "Don't shoot too early... I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that for a woman!"



Okay, work with me her FAII JF is the actor... Shep is the character. Let's try and keep the two seperate shall we? Okay throwing this out to the guys out there (and some gay men who like the female form) What man hasn't checked out a woman's cleavage? And SHEP staring at Larrin's cleavage this is something new for a man... how? I mean it's not like a lot of men don't like T&A is it? Sorry boys I do seem to be generalising. I mean i've never known a man to flirt, or to buy porn or girl mags or talk to a woman's cleavage... IIRC, Rodney is a bigger tart than Shep is. He's the one who always talks about hot women, getting captured by them, checks them out, legs, butt, boobs, smiles, flirting... shall I list said episodes?



06.43? Well, I guess timing really is everything. larrin did say Shep shouldn't shoot his load too early, so I guess someone had to keep an eye on the clock. So what you're actually saying here then is that you agree with me. I knew you'd come round to my way of thinking... everyone does eventually. And it's Shep, not Joe... again felt the need to clarify. And i'd be greatful if you could post a cap of said shameless looking at boobs, please.



Ahhhh I see the scene you mean... it's the one where he's looking up at her from a seating postion as she leans precariously over him... *watches scene again* Oh yes, that scene was shamefull wasn't it? How dare you look directly into her eyes when he should be looking at her boobs!! What sort of a man is he? He should be ashamed of himself... or do you mean that little nanosecond that he looks down and thinks about what she's said... yeah I guess that could be construed at looking at her boobs. Trust me hon, you know someone's looking at your boobs when they talk to your chest first then to you!

As for the double entendre, I guess it all depends on how your mind is set, your's is obviously set to 'dirty'. Don't panic, it doesn't mean that you're bad, it simply means it just means you're extremely shallow. Welcome to the gutter btw! Besides I think you'll find that it's Larrin who was the smut Queen. If you can give me ONE example of Shep initiating the innuendo, then i'll give you some green jello. I bet you won't find one!



Oh please bore me, i'm having a touch of insomnia at the moment. So you could really help me out there! Thanks!

Don't knock the closet until you've tried it.



Damn those PTB for their continuity with the gift of life! Have they no shame? Did you really see the it coming? Just thought i'd clarify, that no it wasn't a double entendre, that was just your dirty mind again.

Don't fall off your chair FAII! BUT, I actually agree with you that CG was a great ep. I think this is a first, but don't go feeling special as i'm not done yet. I'm saving myself for the final climax

Tell me he didn't bend down and pick her up of the floor!!! That's absolutely disgracefull! He should have kicked her while she was down and just taken advantage of the opportunity! Oh wait isn't that what you're implying? So, putting your arm round someone's waist is considered??? I gather you're not a first aider then? He wasn't sure whether she could stand and thought he might have to carry her so the arm went to the back first, then to the waist when she was standing... have you NEVER supported someone by the waist if they were feeling woozy? So if he'd have dragged her up by the arms, that would have suited you better? So he grabbed her by the waist? That automatically makes him what?



Oh trust me if Sheppard was heavy breathing i'd have been the first to notice. Her stumbling, was Larrin using her faminine wiles... some women are sneaky like that, and if done correctly can bring a man to his knees....

Actually she kissed him. Hehehe oh I so look forward to visiting that thread... unless of course you don't want someone like me visiting, and posting.



Figures please compared to the other ones. Thank you.



And you know this by what? Asked the whole viewing fandom, conducted a poll, got a focus group together? Facts and figures, please FAII.



Ah you forgot to add that it was Rodney that wanted to be taken by the sexy alien. And you also obviously forgot about Teyla's rolling of eyes... she's obviously used to it... and wasn't phased by it all. Why was that do you think?



Would it make you feel better if I said you weren't as nutty as a fruit cake, and are taking this way to seriously. Sorry can't help you there. I think you've blown this way out of proportion and can only see Shep as being the 'Kirker' i'm sure I could provide you of so much material of Rodney 'kirking'. You know, just to keep things in perspective.

Didn't you know that sex sells?

All I can say to your post is , I agree with everything you say, when I don't always , and I'm laughing so hard my stomach hurts! Oh yeah, you rock!

[tombraider]

Good post, FallenAngel.

Cleavage. Could not agree more. How freaking practical is cleavage in space??? Spandex space suit might have been no less sexy but more realistic, especially comparing to the men's travelers suits.

Stupid banter with sexual cliches. Absolutely agreed. The line about shooting early is nothing but cringeworthy. Writing for Vala and her comic delivery were SOO much better. I miss Vala.

Overall I think that the episode suffers from both bad writing and bad choice of an actress. Even the sexual tension could have been better with better acting. I heard it somewhere that when in doubt, hire a comedy actor/actress. Their range is always better. But generally I agree that too much sexual tension hurts sci-fi. Kiss was not necessary. It would have been so much classier if they had twinkles in their eyes instead. But such subtlety is rare. *sigh*

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Personally, I quite liked the episode and don't see what the problem is about but meh.

[tombraider]

Personally, I quite liked the episode and don't see what the problem is about but meh.

Peole have different tastes and different opinions. That what the forums are for, sharing them! I shared mine, you shared yours.

[Maltrancko]

For all things sacred Fallen, give it a rest, you have posted enough whiny threads to last a lifetime

your points are annoying and simply the over the top political correctness of the post-feminism...

women have cleavage - straight men like cleavage - straight men watching = ratings

besides it's a show made to entertain - so just watch it or not.. end of story...

[FallenAngelII]

For all things sacred Fallen, give it a rest, you have posted enough whiny threads to last a lifetime

your points are annoying and simply the over the top political correctness of the post-feminism...

women have cleavage - straight men like cleavage - straight men watching = ratings

besides it's a show made to entertain - so just watch it or not.. end of story...

Straight men like a lot of things. Doesn't make it right. Or any less demeaning and offensive to the non-straight men (that is the men who aren't straight and the women) watching. And the show has really hit a low point if the writers can't come up with better things to write than a woman with a stuffed bra and ample cleavage flirting with and making out with the male hero to boost ratings.

Whatever happened to trying to come up with good dramatical storylines to make a good sci-fi show?

It's easy to be high and mighty and call people politically correct whiners and use the word "feminist" almost like a slur when you're part of the group of people who wins on things staying the same way they are. As part of a minority (I'm actually part of many minorities), it's easy however to feel empathy with other minority groups, not that women actually are one since they make up statistically approximately 50% of the world's population.

[tombraider]

For all things sacred Fallen, give it a rest, you have posted enough whiny threads to last a lifetime

your points are annoying and simply the over the top political correctness of the post-feminism...

women have cleavage - straight men like cleavage - straight men watching = ratings

besides it's a show made to entertain - so just watch it or not.. end of story...

I am sorry to barge in, but he has a point. When a show is relying on cleavage for ratings instead of good writing, this is a bad sign for the show. I do not mind cleavage now and then at all when the story is good. That was not the case here.