Carter's Still Infallible

[Heaven]

the problem is the way Sam is written
Sam's brilliance is always expressed in a way that every other person in the room appears stupid.
McKay's brilliance is expressed by passion and excellence.

that's why you can have McKay and Zalenka in the same scene and not have one of them come off as smarter.
but when you have Carter and McKay or Carter and Lee in the same scene, it always ends the same way.

even when working with the Asgard she's written that way.
the Asgard do everything in their power to save their planet
then comes Sam along and says: self destruct, stupid!

or how about the Asgard analyze Merlin's notes, reprogram the supergate
do things Sam can't even begin to understand but then suddenly they're stumped
but of course Carter comes to the rescue: dial out, stupid!

now compare that to McKay and Hermiod.

btw I think its also been established that McKay is better than Sam at math, and after his near ascension I'd say he's smarter.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

the problem is the way Sam is written
Sam's brilliance is always expressed in a way that every other person in the room appears stupid.
McKay's brilliance is expressed by passion and excellence.

that's why you can have McKay and Zalenka in the same scene and not have one of them come off as smarter.
but when you have Carter and McKay or Carter and Lee in the same scene, it always ends the same way.

That's pretty biased wording - "passion and excellence"? lol

McKay DOES come off as smarter than Zalenka 9 times out of 10 and Dr. Lee is a bad example because he's always played as a kinda bumbling comic relief character.

[The Shadow]

I see nothing wrong with Sam coming to Atlantis. And I don't see how she was smarter than McKay either. I'm no Sam fan or McKay fan, all I saw was two very smart people plus Sheppard bouncing off ideas off each other, each person suggesting and contributing ideas that ultimately help save everyone. the SG-1 team has done that many times. Jack has think of ideas before that Carter hadn't thought to try, and so has Daniel, so has Teal'c, it didn't mean that Sam was stupid or that the others were smarter. The same with McKay and the rest of the Atlantis group, sometimes one person has the idea that works that McKay hasn't think off. It's all on the moment and time.

Sam is certainly not all knowing. She doesn't know the wraith as well as McKay and the Atlantis teams do. She'll help in anyway she can with her experiences from SG-1, but there are things out there that she isn't used to also. I see nothing from Sam that said that she's better than everyone else, in fact, she has let others suggest ideas or let them take the lead.

I see no reason why two smart people like McKay and Sam can't be in the same place.

[AGateFan]

John had the idea of how to try and help Rodney and, based on his idea, Sam thought of a technology that could be used to achieve that. And it was Rodney who ultimately worked out how the entity could be defeated and put that plan into effect. So Sheppard and McKay saved the day. Sam contributed.. as did Zelenka, Keller and Heightmeyer.

Keller saved the day as she was the one that even noticed there was an entity. On the other hand it was Shep and Mckay that actually fought and defeated it so maybe they saved the day. Heitmyer (sp) figured out it was a socialpath so mabe she saved the day. Zelenka stopped Keller from touching the second one and figured out it was in Rodney so maybe he saved the day. I am pretty sure Ronan and Teyla did not save the day.

Carter did know a crystal could be an entity and that some entities could pass from person to person and she did know about the gatekeeper tech but all of that is useless information without the others giving context....but what the heck maybe she saved the day too.

[Avenger]

Frankly, Sam's years of experience are exactly what the fold over on Atlantis need in their leader. Good leaders have experience than can draw from and apply to the present.

I work for the Forest Service on a fire crew, and the crew leaders talk about having "slide shows" from their experiences on fires. They seem something that they've encountered on a past incident and use that experience to make a decision on what to do on the current fire; attack the fire, pull the crew out, call for more resources or people, etc. It's exactly the same situation with Carter.

[Jumper_One]

Huh, makes me glad I'm a fan of all the characters!

ditto

[Cautious Explorer]

Frankly, Sam's years of experience are exactly what the fold over on Atlantis need in their leader. Good leaders have experience than can draw from and apply to the present.

I work for the Forest Service on a fire crew, and the crew leaders talk about having "slide shows" from their experiences on fires. They seem something that they've encountered on a past incident and use that experience to make a decision on what to do on the current fire; attack the fire, pull the crew out, call for more resources or people, etc. It's exactly the same situation with Carter.

Someone with experience, and someone sharing that experience may make sense in a training film, but IMO it's makes for less-than-compelling television.

Carter might be workable if the writers could refrain from rehashing SG-1 plots, but otherwise we're going to be subjected to week after week of Carter refrencing her SG-1 experiences and handing ready-made solutions to the team.

[Avenger]

Someone with experience, and someone sharing that experience may make sense in a training film, but IMO it's makes for less-than-compelling television.

Carter might be workable if the writers could refrain from rehashing SG-1 plots, but otherwise we're going to be subjected to week after week of Carter refrencing her SG-1 experiences and handing ready-made solutions to the team.

Which is why the generals were secondary characters in SG-1, taking a background to the team. Carter is going to be in 14 episodes and has only been the boss for two so far this season. Its hardly a large enough sample to judge her ability to lead the expedition.

[Mitchell82]

John had the idea of how to try and help Rodney and, based on his idea, Sam thought of a technology that could be used to achieve that. And it was Rodney who ultimately worked out how the entity could be defeated and put that plan into effect. So Sheppard and McKay saved the day. Sam contributed.. as did Zelenka, Keller and Heightmeyer.

Exactly. Now no more of these bash carter threads. I say this because that is what this will turn into no matter how inoquious the OP meant the topic to be.

[Phenix]

I havent seen this episode, but this is exactly what i was afraid of when Amanda Joined the Atlantis series as Carter. I love the way arrogant McKay allways saves the day with his brain, and now that Carter is also in Atlantis for good, I'm afraid shes going to steal that role away from Rodney. Rodney is no longer the smartest in the Atlantis expedition. We McKay fans dont like the role of problem solver to go to Sam. Dont get me wrong, its great that Sam is on Atlantis now. I just dont hope all of the above happens.

How many times has Rodney almost destroyed the universe? Or said something is impossible but figures it out in two seconds anyway. I think Sam will be a maturing force in Rodney's life.

[Phenix]

the problem is the way Sam is written
Sam's brilliance is always expressed in a way that every other person in the room appears stupid.
McKay's brilliance is expressed by passion and excellence.

that's why you can have McKay and Zalenka in the same scene and not have one of them come off as smarter.
but when you have Carter and McKay or Carter and Lee in the same scene, it always ends the same way.

even when working with the Asgard she's written that way.
the Asgard do everything in their power to save their planet
then comes Sam along and says: self destruct, stupid!

or how about the Asgard analyze Merlin's notes, reprogram the supergate
do things Sam can't even begin to understand but then suddenly they're stumped
but of course Carter comes to the rescue: dial out, stupid!

now compare that to McKay and Hermiod.

btw I think its also been established that McKay is better than Sam at math, and after his near ascension I'd say he's smarter.

McKay has no recollection of his ascension abilities. If he did then he'd be able to understand the advance math that he wrote while evolving. I don't know why this is a bash Carter thread but what you call passion and excellence is typically seen as stubbornness and arrogance.

When Carter worked with the Asgard she was able to help them because she was not nearly as advanced. Her suggestions were unique because the Asgard had moved towards greater sophistication and Carter was able to point out the simple details.

And about the people in the room looking stupid. Typically that room included her team and Hammond. No one on her team was scientifically inclined. Daniel while extremely intelligent was focused on language and culture. The others were soldiers and were focused on how to best stay alive. Its not a surprise that Carter's scientific ideas would fall on deaf ears.

[Niteshadow]

Anyone else find this annoying? Again, her idea saves the day...I think having Carter on the show is just turning it into "Stargate: Atlantis SG-1 Minus Chris, Michael, Claudia, Ben and RDA"

she would be out of character if she didn't figure it out one way or another

[Mattathias2.0]

Actually, Carter is also wrong in McKay & Mrs. Miller.

CARTER: Again, I’m sorry I couldn’t come with you, but there’s just too much going on here.
McKAY: It’s fine.
CARTER: Well, I thought I could at least help you get Jeanie up to speed before you guys are out of comm range.
(Rodney and Jeanie both nod.)
CARTER: About a year ago, your brother came across an abandoned alien experiment called Project Arcturus.
(Rodney calls up the information on another screen as Sam continues talking.)
CARTER: It was an attempt to generate zero point energy.
JEANIE: That would be virtually limitless power. What happened?
McKAY: A slight problem. It was the creation of exotic particles in the containment field.
CARTER: He destroyed a solar system.
JEANIE: Meredith! (She smacks his arm.)
McKAY: It was uninhabited!
CARTER: Your brother, along with many others, has been trying to figure out a way to draw zero point energy from a parallel space time.
McKAY: Which would get us around the whole problem of the creation of dangerous exotic particles in our own space time.
JEANIE: And my theory is about bridging universes.
CARTER: Exactly. Yeah, we’re hoping to use your proof as the theoretical basis for building a bridge from a parallel space time to ours.
JEANIE: The energy you’d need would be enormous to the point of absurd.
McKAY: Absurd we can do. We have something called a Zero Point Module which essentially does what we’re attempting on a smaller scale – extract energy from subspace time.
JEANIE: So subspace is real?
CARTER: You’re flying in it.
JEANIE (nervously): Oh. (Then she forgets her nerves as she thinks more about the problem.) Aren’t you worried about the exotic particles crossing back over my bridge?
CARTER: Well, that’s the beauty of your theory. It should not only allow us to build a bridge, it should also allow us to manage the flow rate of energy.
JEANIE: Like a faucet.
(Rodney laughs condescendingly.)
McKAY: Well, something like that.
CARTER: It’s exactly like that.
(Rodney’s smile fades.)
JEANIE: What about the parallel universe? Aren’t you just shifting the exotic particle problem to their side?
CARTER: Potentially. But when you consider that the number of possible parallel universes that we could access borders on the infinite, the odds of us choosing at random one that’s inhabited are astronomically slim.
JEANIE: Wow.

and later

ROD: OK, I’m gonna make some assumptions based on what I’ve seen here and from readings we’ve taken in my own space time. Please stop me if I’m wrong. One: I presume you’re running some sort of experiment that’s designed to bridge between parallel universes. And two: it has something to do with power generation. Warm? Cold?
JEANIE: Uh, hot. (She laughs.)
ROD: Well, I’m sure the experiment’s been a success on this side, but it’s having some rather serious repercussions in my universe.

JEANIE: I told you.
McKAY: Not now!
JEANIE (to Rod): Dangerous exotic particles that don’t belong in either of our universes are being created on your side of the bridge.
(Rodney turns and throws her a dark look. Rod leans forward to him.)
ROD: Oh, so you knew this could happen?
McKAY (nervously): Uh, there was a slight risk, yes.
(Up in the Observation Room, John and Elizabeth are watching the conversation.)
SHEPPARD: This is weird.
ROD: Well, you’re quite correct, Jeanie, and because these particles don’t behave according to any of the laws of physics in our space time, they’re creating a tear in the fabric of our universe.

So, granted it was McKay and Jeannie conducting the experiment, Carter was still wrong about information due to a mere assumption.

Updated
*underestimating the power requirement or something for Merlin's Device in Line In The Sand,
*trusting her Replicator self in Gemini,
*underestimating the Ori Satellite in Ethon (resulted in the Prometheus getting destroyed),
*if Vala wasn't there in Beachhead the Ori would have had a working Supergate (Carter didn't know what to do),
*she along with SG-1 screwed up the Timeline in Moebius,
*getting taken over by the alien entity in Entity,
*lied to Tok'ra and SGC Personel in Divide And Conquer,
*(like the rest of SG-1) snuck outside of the base using those devices in Upgrades,
*had not Mitchell figured out a power source to reverse time in Unending they all would have died...
*trusting her alternate self in Ripple Effect,
*overriding something with the gate in Red Sky,
*gave assumed mathematical data to McKay and Jeannie in McKay & Mrs. Miller.

So, how precisely, is she not infallible?

[kirmit]

Anyone else find this annoying? Again, her idea saves the day...I think having Carter on the show is just turning it into "Stargate: Atlantis SG-1 Minus Chris, Michael, Claudia, Ben and RDA"

Lol seriously? So carter assists in solving a problem and suddenly it's turning into Stargate: Atlantis SG-1.........yer so we'll just have her sit at a desk, saying and doing nothing for the whole season .