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  1. #1
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    I can't wrap my head around Carter going off-world for anything except the a mission where she physically has to be there, ala Weir going on her last off-world mission, and that was a rare, in fact singular event.

    There's no way she should have been on that mission to rescue Ronon. What's the purpose, what function did Carter serve there that some other soldier couldn't have performed? If the rescue team had been captured, who would have been in charge, Zalenka?

    I think it's fine that Sam would give help in finding solutions, but I think she would be doing it from Atlantis. I know the TPTB want to give Carter a bigger role than Weir had, but it has to remain in the realm of reason.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel AGateFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    No it doesnt make sense for Carter or even Zelinka to go off world on that mission. But its TV and lots of time it didnt make sense when Weir, Hammond (although they tended to make these a bit more believable IMHO) Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway or any other scifi command type does it. In fact I was pleaseantly suprised in Lifeline that they left Teyla behind to be in charge as such logic is often overlooked in TV.
    Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"

    ^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?

    AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.

  3. #3
    Brigadier General FallenAngelII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    Of course it isn't. Especially not when the Tau'ri military presence consists of her and two random Red Shirts instead of her and Lorne at least.

    Zelenka's appearance? I'm gonna make a thread about that.

  4. #4
    Captain Mattathias2.0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    It's not logical, but Weir did do it several times, most notably in Home, The Siege II, Inferno, Progeny, and Submersion (ok, last one not off-world - but still).

    Granted, Carter is now the boss, but at least she has experience going off-world, including scientifically (like Reckoning), diplomatically (like Icon), and military (like loads of SG-1 episodes). I can't see her going off-world all the time, but certainly a little because of her experience.

  5. #5
    Brigadier General FallenAngelII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattathias2.0 View Post
    It's not logical, but Weir did do it several times, most notably in Home, The Siege II, Inferno, Progeny, and Submersion (ok, last one not off-world - but still).

    Granted, Carter is now the boss, but at least she has experience going off-world, including scientifically (like Reckoning), diplomatically (like Icon), and military (like loads of SG-1 episodes). I can't see her going off-world all the time, but certainly a little because of her experience.
    Those were logical though.

    In "Home", they thought they could find a way back to Earth.
    In "The Siege (Part II)", she returned to debrief the IOA on their command.
    In "Inferno", well, I don't know, stupidity. Or the writers just wanted her there to have her negotiate about the warship.
    In "Progeny", they thought they'd found living Ancients. Of course having Elizabeth along for First Contact was logical.
    "Submersion" was just stupidity.

    Not in one of these episodes did Elizabeth ever go off-world expecting to run into a military situation where her life would be on the line! The leader can go off-world. Just not deliberately into hostile situations! They're the leaders! What if Sam had been gunned down?! What would they do then?! If Sam and Zelenka had been captured as well, command would've befallen Lorne.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    I totally agree--it seemed to me totally illogical for Carter to go off world, especially so close to her just coming on board. I would have understood it better if Zelenka hadn't been there, seeing as they might have needed a scientist to figure out wraith gadgetry. But like you said, who would have been left to oversee Atlantis if something had happened to the teams? I'm sure Lorne would have been next up. All the other major players were off on this mission. I am all for a leader not being afraid to get down and dirty, but it just didn't seem like the time for her to do it, especially when there were so many other capable people involved already.

  7. #7
    Captain Mattathias2.0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenAngelII View Post
    Those were logical though.

    In "Home", they thought they could find a way back to Earth.
    In "The Siege (Part II)", she returned to debrief the IOA on their command.
    In "Inferno", well, I don't know, stupidity. Or the writers just wanted her there to have her negotiate about the warship.
    In "Progeny", they thought they'd found living Ancients. Of course having Elizabeth along for First Contact was logical.
    "Submersion" was just stupidity.

    Not in one of these episodes did Elizabeth ever go off-world expecting to run into a military situation where her life would be on the line! The leader can go off-world. Just not deliberately into hostile situations! They're the leaders! What if Sam had been gunned down?! What would they do then?! If Sam and Zelenka had been captured as well, command would've befallen Lorne.
    No, The Siege II was to negotiate for Nuclear Bombs from the Genii. The episode you are thinking of is No Man's Land.

    Yes, 2 were not logical, which is my point.

  8. #8
    Brigadier General FallenAngelII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattathias2.0 View Post
    No, The Siege II was to negotiate for Nuclear Bombs from the Genii. The episode you are thinking of is No Man's Land.

    Yes, 2 were not logical, which is my point.
    Oh, yeah. But that was logical as well.

    Let's see:
    Inferno - She was to come and meet a people who'd found a very powerful power source in order to negotiate a trade for said power? Or something like that probably.
    Submersion - Random ****. But it was safe.

    In neither of these cases did Elizabeth put herself in a situation which she expected to be hostile! Because the leaders of great expeditions do not do that crap!

  9. #9
    Major
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    No, it isn't logical, nor is it military protocol for the base commander/ship's commander/etc etc to go off on missions.

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    It's illogical! If she was killed in the rescue mission together with Shep, Teyla, Ronon, Mckay and Zelenka who would be left to lead Atlantis - Chuck, Keller or Katie Brown???

  11. #11
    Captain
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    "Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?"

    short answer - no
    long answer - hell no!

  12. #12
    Captain stclare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    When I saw her join the rescue team my eyes rolled so hard I thought id be permantly damaged

    If her going was a necesity to the storyline ala no other scientest capable there etc then I could have suspended my disbelief, but no. Lorne would have been a much more suitable addition IMHO.

    Logical thinking in the same sentence as TPTB is wishfull thinking is it not

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    While it's not totally logical for the base commander to go on a search & rescue mission like Carter did in this episode, think about it from the character's perspective. She's just stepped into a new command, and to some degree has to prove to those serving under her that she's going to support them.

    Secondly, she had already been questioned by Ronan regarding her commitment to fighting the Wraith (albeit not in so many words). So you could look at this as a way for Carter to demonstrate to everyone that she is just as dedicated to their mission as Weir was.

    Admittedly, the absence of Major Lorne was a mystery, but he could have been off on his own mission. Regardless, Carter was still the senior military officer in Atlantis, and probably has more field experience than most of the people there. So while it's not totally logical, it is understandable.

    -kai

  14. #14
    Captain Dutch_Razor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    It's her first command of a base (or the second, anyway she doesn't have much experience), it's not logical but she doesn't really know yet who's good and who isn't, instead of risking someone else she decides to go herself.

    2 redshirts instead of Lorne could be explained by having Lorne in command of Atlantis

  15. #15
    Captain stclare's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    Quote Originally Posted by perfesserkai View Post
    While it's not totally logical for the base commander to go on a search & rescue mission like Carter did in this episode, think about it from the character's perspective. She's just stepped into a new command, and to some degree has to prove to those serving under her that she's going to support them.

    Secondly, she had already been questioned by Ronan regarding her commitment to fighting the Wraith (albeit not in so many words). So you could look at this as a way for Carter to demonstrate to everyone that she is just as dedicated to their mission as Weir was.

    Admittedly, the absence of Major Lorne was a mystery, but he could have been off on his own mission. Regardless, Carter was still the senior military officer in Atlantis, and probably has more field experience than most of the people there. So while it's not totally logical, it is understandable.

    -kai

    I see what your saying but I disagree.

    She can demonstrate her caperbilitys in the role she is in now, by making the decisons on who to send and trusting in her peoples capabilities rather than taking there place.
    Weir would not have gone into a hostile situation such as this unless it was absolutley nesscesary. this in my opinion was not the case this time.

    further down the line then maybe, but of the bat to go and do this after giving Ronan that bit about the IOA was weird, wouldnt the IOA want there new leader to remain on base? so you know they dont have to find another leader or worry about that kind of security risk.

    perhaps this is the civilian / military difference in leadership?

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  16. #16
    Brigadier General FallenAngelII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    It's hardly a smart move as the leader of an operation to, on your first day (or at least first day with things to do) in said position, make a horribly stupid decision.

    You don't demonstrate you're committed or that you're brave or whatever by jumping headfirst into battle. The only thing you're demonstrating is stupidity. What if she'd been fed on? What then?

  17. #17

    Jack Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    Well I think it is PERFECT

    1. Carter is a Colonel not a civilian or a General.
    2. She has the military experience
    3. If something goes wrong, SGC or the IOA could send a replacement right away.
    4. It would go against her personality.

  18. #18
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    I disagree with the person who said this wasn't the right time for such a mission. If ever there was a right time for her to lead a military operation (I'm not saying there is though) it would be now. The expedition just lost Weir. She was very beloved by all and it was a huge blow to everyone on Atlantis. Now just as a new person is coming to take her place, the most valuable and senior members of the expedition are captured off world. For moral purposes, her showing that she's going to proactively make sure not to leave them behind goes a long way - If Ronan can warm up to her after that anyone will. Meanwhile, she's new so her loss won't effect them greatly and if she didn't return they would just dial Earth and have orders on what to do right away. This isn't season 1 where the leadership had to be extra careful as a loss on that level could ruin the expedition and this isn't like real life where it takes time for a replacement to be sent - It would take Earth nothing to send a temporarily officer to take charge until those in the field could be rescued or if they're dead, until new leadership could be decided.

    That said, I do think she is going to have to learn that she can't run off all the time, but it's her first real command so it's not all that surprising that she would do something like this. Someone has to tell her that she can't risk her life anymore as people here depend her more than those out in the field do. This is a big change for her and she is going to have to adjust.

    So overall, I think her going off world worked. If she did it purposely as a way to introduce herself to everyone it wasn't an awful idea on her part as she needed something more than a speech to rally everyone behind her after such tragedy and change (sure it could've gone horribly wrong though). But if not it's in-character as she has yet to go through the same thing Jack did (learning that sometimes the best thing you can do is sit on your hands and wait while trusting the people you sent out there to do their jobs).

  19. #19
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    She's a Colonel, officially put in charge of Atlantis, she doesn't have to 'prove' herself. Leaders are there to lead, not act as infantry--which is all she did on the rescue mission.

    Maybe in medieval times it was important for leaders to physically fight on the frontline, to inspire troops, but not in this modern age.

    I seriously hope the writers don't do this frequently or it's going to be very distracting. We know Sam can kick butt if she has to, but her job has changed. She'll get her chance, the next 7 or 8 times that the Genii manage to overrun Atlantis!

  20. #20
    Second Lieutenant Leliana McKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is it logical for Carter to go off-world?

    I, too, think that her going offworld was wrong. She just arrived on Atlantis and like you said if they had all died that would have been quite problematic for the direct chain of command.
    Even if she is military she should have stayed on Atlantis doing the job she just got assigned and not try to do her OLD job.

    However, maybe we all still think too much about what Elizabeth would do. Sam is a very different character. Maybe her going offworld is normal for a military team leader (Hammond did go affworld a few times) or it will be explained in later episodes.

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