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McKay-Carter Intergalactic Gate Bridge inconsistancy

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    McKay-Carter Intergalactic Gate Bridge inconsistancy

    As we know, the McKay-Carter Intergalactic Gate Bridge works by a macro. The first gate dials the second gate, but the second gate does not open a wormhole. but merely establishing the connections between the hyperspacial buffers. So a person enters the event horizon and is stored in the first gates buffer. They are transfered to the second gates buffer. The connection between the gates is terminated, terminating the connection between the hyperspacial buffers. The second gate dials the third gate, but no event horizon is formed. The people are transfered to the next buffer. This repeats until the gate at midway where a half-wormhole (event horizon) is formed. When the people arrive at the buffer of this last gate, they emerge through the event horizon. this process takes some time and is definitely not instantaneous.

    But in S04E01, Apollo engages in real-time communication with midway via the pegasus-side stargate. The only logical explanation is that they used a ZPM to direct dial that stargate (a zpm would be needed because of the distance, but it is a pegasus gate, so the special control crystal of Atlantis should not be needed). Otherwise, the communication would be delayed as the gates called each other to pass the transmission between hyperspacial buffers.

    But Apollo does not have a ZPM that I am aware of, so what is going on?

    (As for normal operation of the bridge, It is interesting to note that only 2 half-wormholes are created, the rest being hyperspacial connections. This is important because the kwoosh would otherwise empty the hyperspacial buffer. )

    #2
    i don't think they were using the gate. (could be wrong. would have to re-watch the eppy.) but were using their subspace communication system which is practically instantaneous.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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      #3
      No they dialed in. Carter even asked them how they were contacting them since the planet Atlantis was headed to didn't have a Stargate and they traveled to a nearby world.

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        #4
        Wasn't the Apollo given one of the ZPMs? They had 3 after taking back Atlantis from the replicators and Rodney wanted to keep all 3 but was told that they couldn't and one had to be sent back to earth and I thought the other was given to the apollo. I could be wrong, I'd have to rewatch again.

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          #5
          I wasn't aware that in order to connect to a gate within the same network needed a ZPM. Last I checked, a gate activated on one end of the galaxy can create a stable wormhole with another one at the other side, which is a huge amount of distance.

          So, why the need for a ZPM?

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            #6
            Originally posted by Reign View Post
            Wasn't the Apollo given one of the ZPMs? They had 3 after taking back Atlantis from the replicators and Rodney wanted to keep all 3 but was told that they couldn't and one had to be sent back to earth and I thought the other was given to the apollo. I could be wrong, I'd have to rewatch again.
            no. one was given to the earth outpost, one to atlantis and the third to the odyssey.
            Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Mattathias2.0 View Post
              I wasn't aware that in order to connect to a gate within the same network needed a ZPM. Last I checked, a gate activated on one end of the galaxy can create a stable wormhole with another one at the other side, which is a huge amount of distance.

              So, why the need for a ZPM?
              Because the distance to midway is far far larger than the diameter of a galaxy. Thats the whole reason the Gate bridge consists of 34 gates, 17 Milky way, 17
              Pegasus. If they could direct connect to midway, only one gate for each would be needed, located at midway.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Jsmith45 View Post
                Because the distance to midway is far far larger than the diameter of a galaxy. Thats the whole reason the Gate bridge consists of 34 gates, 17 Milky way, 17
                Pegasus. If they could direct connect to midway, only one gate for each would be needed, located at midway.
                Which is also the answer here. The Apollo dialed into the first gate in the galactic bridge, a feat that doesn't require a ZPM. Said gate then dialed the next and then that gate did the same and voila, connection to the bridge.



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                  #9
                  The Apollo obviously has the macro needed to dial the Intergalactic Bridge to reach the gateway station. All they would need to do is put the ship in orbit of a planet that does have a stargate and dial it.

                  Ace
                  "Good Morning Dr. Silberman. How's the knee?" - Sarah Connor 1994

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ace View Post
                    The Apollo obviously has the macro needed to dial the Intergalactic Bridge to reach the gateway station. All they would need to do is put the ship in orbit of a planet that does have a stargate and dial it.

                    Ace
                    Nobody's denying that they could've have dialed the gateway station by modifying the macro. They're saying that the bridge does not work in such a way where it allows for real time communication. As the original poster said, the macro works so the gate on the planet the Apollo was over dials the first gate in the bridge. Both gates then shut down and the first gate of the bridge dials the second gate. Once a connection is made it transfers over any data it stored in it's buffers from whatever was sent through the gate on the planet that the Apollo was over. Both the first and second gate in the bridge then shut down and the second gate dials the third...Repeat the process of dialing, transfering data, and shutting down until we reach the midway station gate. By this point only two gates should've been active and none of them would've been the one on the planet the Apollo was in orbit over so they shouldn't have been able to say something while Sam replied and so on and so forth.

                    In order for them to be able to communicate with the midway station, they would've either had to send a pre-recorded communication that told them which gate they were dialing from and what was going on with Atlantis. Then they would've had to wait 30 minutes while Sam loaded the macro to send her own communication back to them or the Apollo would've had to send a person over that she could talk to and the Apollo would've had to wait 30 minutes for that person to be sent back. So, the original poster is quite right that it was a mistake to have them talking the way they were.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sicktem View Post
                      Nobody's denying that they could've have dialed the gateway station by modifying the macro. They're saying that the bridge does not work in such a way where it allows for real time communication. As the original poster said, the macro works so the gate on the planet the Apollo was over dials the first gate in the bridge. Both gates then shut down and the first gate of the bridge dials the second gate. Once a connection is made it transfers over any data it stored in it's buffers from whatever was sent through the gate on the planet that the Apollo was over. Both the first and second gate in the bridge then shut down and the second gate dials the third...Repeat the process of dialing, transfering data, and shutting down until we reach the midway station gate. By this point only two gates should've been active and none of them would've been the one on the planet the Apollo was in orbit over so they shouldn't have been able to say something while Sam replied and so on and so forth.

                      In order for them to be able to communicate with the midway station, they would've either had to send a pre-recorded communication that told them which gate they were dialing from and what was going on with Atlantis. Then they would've had to wait 30 minutes while Sam loaded the macro to send her own communication back to them or the Apollo would've had to send a person over that she could talk to and the Apollo would've had to wait 30 minutes for that person to be sent back. So, the original poster is quite right that it was a mistake to have them talking the way they were.
                      Really? I don't remember the Gate Bridge working like that... The way I understood it was the first gate dials the second gate and using the macro it forwards to the third gate so on and so on thereby having all the gates open at the same time until it reaches the end of the line at the gateway station. Thereby allowing real time communication...

                      Am I wrong? Perhaps somebody could point me towards a transcript where they explain the situation as you have described it.

                      Ace

                      P.S. Didn't they already have real time communication in the Season 3 episode "The Return Pt. 1"? I recall Landry calling Sheppard and Sheppard cutting him off
                      Last edited by Ace; 07 October 2007, 12:25 PM.
                      "Good Morning Dr. Silberman. How's the knee?" - Sarah Connor 1994

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ace View Post
                        Really? I don't remember the Gate Bridge working like that... The way I understood it was the first gate dials the second gate and using the macro it forwards to the third gate so on and so on thereby having all the gates open at the same time until it reaches the end of the line at the gateway station. Thereby allowing real time communication...

                        Am I wrong? Perhaps somebody could point me towards a transcript where they explain the situation as you have described it.

                        Ace

                        P.S. Didn't they already have real time communication in the Season 3 episode "The Return Pt. 1"? I recall Landry calling Sheppard and Sheppard cutting him off
                        McKay's explanation in 'The Return I':
                        McKay: Thirty-four Gates from both the Milky Way and Pegasus Gate systems have been strategically placed in the massive void between our two galaxies. Simply enter on either side -- for example, Atlantis -- and boom! A macro that I have written specially for the occasion will command each Gate in the chain to store you in its buffer and forward you along to the next, and the next, and the next, and the next, and the next until you arrive here.

                        Once at the midway space station you simply exit the Pegasus Gate system and enter the Milky Way Gate system where a similar macro designed by yours truly will forward you along to the S.G.C. Total travel time, a little over thirty minutes.
                        I think that's the best we get, which doesn't really seem to come down on either side definitively.
                        I've always interpreted it the same way as Jsmith45 and Sicktem, with each gate dialling the next, shutting down, etc.

                        Could a Stargate have both an incoming and outgoing wormhole?

                        You're right about Landry calling John in 'The Return I', though, and they said then too that the MW gate was activating. So, even if it doesn't make sense, it seems to be an established fact that communication via the gate bridge is possible.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Naonak View Post
                          McKay's explanation in 'The Return I':

                          I think that's the best we get, which doesn't really seem to come down on either side definitively.
                          I've always interpreted it the same way as Jsmith45 and Sicktem, with each gate dialling the next, shutting down, etc.

                          Could a Stargate have both an incoming and outgoing wormhole?

                          You're right about Landry calling John in 'The Return I', though, and they said then too that the MW gate was activating. So, even if it doesn't make sense, it seems to be an established fact that communication via the gate bridge is possible.
                          But the message Landry sent was not necessarily real-time. Sheppard cut him off by tuning off the display, but that does not necessarily mean that communication was a real time message, rather than a data burst being sent along in the same way as an object would.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Naonak View Post
                            McKay's explanation in 'The Return I':

                            I think that's the best we get, which doesn't really seem to come down on either side definitively.
                            I've always interpreted it the same way as Jsmith45 and Sicktem, with each gate dialling the next, shutting down, etc.

                            Could a Stargate have both an incoming and outgoing wormhole?

                            You're right about Landry calling John in 'The Return I', though, and they said then too that the MW gate was activating. So, even if it doesn't make sense, it seems to be an established fact that communication via the gate bridge is possible.
                            Maybe I have interpreted it wrong... but I always thought that all the gates in the sequence were on and using the "Anubis call forward" device/method it would transfer anything stored in the buffer such as a person on to the next gate until it reached it's destination.

                            Ace
                            "Good Morning Dr. Silberman. How's the knee?" - Sarah Connor 1994

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                              #15
                              Ok, but aren't we comparing matter transmisson vs a radio signal?

                              I think it has more to do that the only two compatible gates to create a stable wormhole to and from the Pegasus and Milky Way, is the Earth Gate and the Atlantis Gate (seen in multiple episodes), because Atlantis has a special control crystal.

                              From the episode Home

                              McKAY: It is, but that’s because it’s the only one with an additional control crystal that allows an eighth chevron to lock.
                              SHEPPARD: It’s probably a security measure.
                              McKAY: It doesn’t matter. As long as we have the control crystal, I can make the other Gate work.
                              WEIR: You’re suggesting we remove it from our DHD and bring it to M5S-224?
                              McKAY: Yes.
                              WEIR: Isn’t that risky?
                              McKAY: I’ll be fine.
                              SHEPPARD: I think she means in terms of breaking our own Gate.
                              McKAY: I know what I’m doing. Besides, the control crystal’s useless without enough power.
                              So, it shouldn't require the Atlantis Stargate any extra power to establish a wormhole with Earth (with at least one ZPM), but it would require extra power and that control crystal for a Pegasus Gate to establish a wormhole with Earth.

                              But the Gate Bridge is NOT having one gate from the Pegasus dial another in the Milky Way, so power is NOT an issue. There is no extra power needed for a gate within the same network to dial another in the same gate network - so reasonably speaking Ellis wouldn't need a ZPM to dial another Pegasus gate for that reason.

                              Maybe the macro does not function until matter enters one of the 4 enter/exit gates, and then automatically forwards. This could explain how the SGC actually had no issue contacting Sheppard using that gate, but the macro did not begin working until Sheppard entered the first Milky Way gate.

                              As far as distance goes, we have no real way to measure any comparison between any of the gates in any galaxies. There simply is not enough information to state what is and isn't possible, but we have seen it happen, so it does work.

                              We do know for a fact, that in order for Atlantis to Gate anywhere in the Milky Way, requires a ZPM, and in order for Earth to gate to Atlantis, requires them to have a ZPM, but as long as Atlantis has a ZPM, Atlantis can gate Earth anytime. We do for a fact that Pegasus Gates cannot dial another Milky Way Gates without extra power and that control crystal, as stated by McKay.
                              Last edited by Mattathias2.0; 08 October 2007, 10:13 AM.

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