McKay, Weir, Shep, and the nanites

[IrishPisano]

i think we can all agree with sheppard on how he handled the situation... especially given all we've seen and know about the asurans and replicators...

now who thinks sheppard should have knocked out McKay or done a little bit more to stop him when he first suggested it?

[Ltcolshepjumper]

I do. Or at least had him locked up. Would've been more interesting.

[Cautious Explorer]

Of course Sheppard was already suited up to go out into space at the time, so not a lot he could do right then. Great timing.

I'm not sure the apology should have been accepted so easily either. Sure, in the middle of an emergency situation is not the time to dwell on grudges, but I think there should be some consequences. It would have made more sense for Sheppard to tell McKay they'd deal with it later.

[IrishPisano]

Of course Sheppard was already suited up to go out into space at the time, so not a lot he could do right then. Great timing.

I'm not sure the apology should have been accepted so easily either. Sure, in the middle of an emergency situation is not the time to dwell on grudges, but I think there should be some consequences. It would have made more sense for Sheppard to tell McKay they'd deal with it later.

tru, the priority was fixing/saving atlantis... they should have a disciplinary board for McKay when the time's right... especially if the nanites are reactivated by the borg... i'm sorry, the asurans...

2. if i were weir, i'd kill myself to spare atlantis from the possible reactivation of the nanites

[gebtkd]

I can't believe there is a tread about this. Talk about double standard.
How many times, Sheppard has disobeyed Weir instruction to save one person. He has always been a loose cannon, Mister I follow my own rule, but has there been a tread about disciplinary action against Sheppard? Of course not, Weir always came back as the bad one, She was wrong and he was right. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheppard, and it was funny to see that he was the voice of reason and Rodney was the loose cannon, however, John & Rodney were the leaders at the time and needed to show that they were working together. Also, by accepting Rodney's apology, I believe Sheppard proved that he wasn't completely against the plan. He does trust Rodney. I also think people should wait until Lifeline to see the development of the story. Reactivating the nanite could have an impact on the storyline. Everyone is always pointing Rodney's mistakes, but he is not the only one who has made them, however, nobody else ever get that thrown back in their faces. Whooping boy again, the guy is the one keeping them from all dying right now and he came up with the idea of not only the hyperdrive for the jumper but also going to steal the ZPM from the Asurans. Give the guy a break.

[Cautious Explorer]

tru, the priority was fixing/saving atlantis... they should have a disciplinary board for McKay when the time's right... especially if the nanites are reactivated by the borg... i'm sorry, the asurans...

2. if i were weir, i'd kill myself to spare atlantis from the possible reactivation of the nanites

They may want to include Keller in that disciplinary hearing. She knew Sheppards decision, yet kept urging McKay on as if Sheppard had given the go ahead.

But since nobody else has ever received more than a verbal reprimand for disobeying orders in the series, I wouldn't expect anything formal. I think it's a little more serious than something that can be excused by a brief apology. Especially when Rodney is making comments like "I know you're not happy with me, and you may have some cause." He still doesn't seem to have a clue what he's done wrong here.

[blue-skyz]

I think it's a little more serious than something that can be excused by a brief apology. Especially when Rodney is making comments like "I know you're not happy with me, and you may have some cause." He still doesn't seem to have a clue what he's done wrong here.

I think for McKay that much of an apology was equivalent to getting down and begging for forgiveness. It is so like McKay to say “you MAY have some cause.” The first thing Elizabeth said to them after they told her about the nanites had to be that it was a big mistake. The same kind of thing that she repeats to Teyla later. By the time he apologized, McKay had to know that he was wrong about what Elizabeth would want.

Spoilers for Lifeline

Spoiler:

Even if the nanites contribute to saving their lives and Atlantis, that doesn’t retroactively make what McKay did okay. I think there will be future consequences.

I don’t think Keller shares the blame. McKay had to be the one to determine if the state of the nanites would be safe enough for Sheppard. He knew they weren’t, but at that point he felt like he would be responsible for Elizabeth’s death. The point he didn’t understand, that Sheppard did, was that Sheppard had already assumed the responsibility for Elizabeth’s death.

[IrishPisano]

keller should be verbally reprimanded to a small extent... it is her job to save people... and against her oath to let someone die when she has the ability to save them


mckay, however, is vastly more responsible for the situation and should be disciplined accordingly...

it would be nice to see sheppard come down hard on McKay for this as it would add some complexity to Mr. Rule-Breaker... of course, when you go from being an underling to being the one in command, one's views can and sometimes do change... it would be a nice char evolution for sheppard...

but of course it looks like the decision on rodney and keller might be saved until they see what happens with weir... besides, atlantis has a slightly skewed portrayal of the military and i doubt they'd allow a storyline where the #2 civilian in atlantis has his ass handed to him...

[kymeric]

I can't believe there is a tread about this. Talk about double standard.
How many times, Sheppard has disobeyed Weir instruction to save one person. He has always been a loose cannon, Mister I follow my own rule, but has there been a tread about disciplinary action against Sheppard? Of course not, Weir always came back as the bad one, She was wrong and he was right. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheppard, and it was funny to see that he was the voice of reason and Rodney was the loose cannon, however, John & Rodney were the leaders at the time and needed to show that they were working together. Also, by accepting Rodney's apology, I believe Sheppard proved that he wasn't completely against the plan. He does trust Rodney. I also think people should wait until Lifeline to see the development of the story. Reactivating the nanite could have an impact on the storyline. Everyone is always pointing Rodney's mistakes, but he is not the only one who has made them, however, nobody else ever get that thrown back in their faces. Whooping boy again, the guy is the one keeping them from all dying right now and he came up with the idea of not only the hyperdrive for the jumper but also going to steal the ZPM from the Asurans. Give the guy a break.

Haha, u know what it is? For the first time everyones lives are on his @$$. Not soo easy to be risky when hes the boss. He flipped over saving one person in afganistan, imagine if he killed 50-60 or how ever many a skeletion crew is.

[VSS]

Hate to disagree with most of you, but this is Keller's fault. She, as the doctor in charge, has the last word regarding what happens to any patient in that infirmary. And yes, she has the obligation to save a life (even an enemy, as we have seen several times on SG-1) but the definition of "life" is not clearly defined. That is why, in real life, we have things called "living wills". In this situation Elizabeth was clearly not happy to have been saved, because she doesn't have the life she knew, and furthermore, is a potential danger to everyone else. When I saw Keller accept McKay's proposal to use the nanites, the only thing I could think of was that Keller was new and didn't know very much about the nanites and replicators. She didn't question him nearly as much as she should have. She was uninformed and unable to render a sound medical decision.

Primum non nocere, Dr. Keller. First, do no harm.

[IrishPisano]

Hate to disagree with most of you, but this is Keller's fault. She, as the doctor in charge, has the last word regarding what happens to any patient in that infirmary. And yes, she has the obligation to save a life (even an enemy, as we have seen several times on SG-1) but the definition of "life" is not clearly defined. That is why, in real life, we have things called "living wills". In this situation Elizabeth was clearly not happy to have been saved, because she doesn't have the life she knew, and furthermore, is a potential danger to everyone else. When I saw Keller accept McKay's proposal to use the nanites, the only thing I could think of was that Keller was new and didn't know very much about the nanites and replicators. She didn't question him nearly as much as she should have. She was uninformed and unable to render a sound medical decision.

Primum non nocere, Dr. Keller. First, do no harm.

actually, in a situation like that, where the security of the Atlantis base and, possibly, earth is at stake, Sheppard, as acting base commander, has the authority to override the chief medical officer's decisions in the interest of base security...

and yes, Sheppard was base commander, not Weir, and not McKay...

Weir was out of commission and since Atlantis was under seige and in an active state of war with the Asurans, authority would fall to Sheppard who should have established martial law in the city...

[rarocks24]

I can't believe there is a tread about this. Talk about double standard.
How many times, Sheppard has disobeyed Weir instruction to save one person. He has always been a loose cannon, Mister I follow my own rule, but has there been a tread about disciplinary action against Sheppard? Of course not, Weir always came back as the bad one, She was wrong and he was right. Don't get me wrong, I like Sheppard, and it was funny to see that he was the voice of reason and Rodney was the loose cannon, however, John & Rodney were the leaders at the time and needed to show that they were working together. Also, by accepting Rodney's apology, I believe Sheppard proved that he wasn't completely against the plan. He does trust Rodney. I also think people should wait until Lifeline to see the development of the story. Reactivating the nanite could have an impact on the storyline. Everyone is always pointing Rodney's mistakes, but he is not the only one who has made them, however, nobody else ever get that thrown back in their faces. Whooping boy again, the guy is the one keeping them from all dying right now and he came up with the idea of not only the hyperdrive for the jumper but also going to steal the ZPM from the Asurans. Give the guy a break.

Spoiler:

And yet, he disobeyed a direct order from Col. Sheppard. Regardless of whether it paid off for Atlantis in the end. Given how easily Atlantis was able to steal the ZPM, they probably could have done it without the help of Dr. Weir.

Actually, they do. There are consequences for every action. Not only was it dangerous and reckless on the part of Mckay, it was against the wishes of Dr Weir, and she herself admitted it was too great the risk.

[ToasterOnFire]

Come on, no one ever suffers serious or long term consequences on this show unless their character is dumped or killed. TPTB haven't written it for 3 seasons, why start now?

[rarocks24]

Come on, no one ever suffers serious or long term consequences on this show unless their character is dumped or killed. TPTB haven't written it for 3 seasons, why start now?

Which is unfortunate, they really should. But I digress, if they did that, there wouldn't be a show would there? Hell, if they were held accountable for their actions, SG1, Atlantis, things would be a LOT different.

[McKayManiacs92]

I thought the apology was fine, I kind of took Sheppard's quick acceptance as how Sheppard didn't want Weir to die either or anything...no one on Atlantis did, hence the extreme measures to save her. There was a way to save Weir but they were not willing to do it only because they were unsure about the nanites contacting the Asurans and so on....and no one knew for sure (unless you count Shep) until the nanites were already activated and Weir was back that her wishes would have been against it. Sheppard was right about Weir, but how was McKay suppose to know that...how was anyone suppose to know 100% without her telling them (which she hadn't) that was her wishes.

Plus, by the time McKay gave the apology to Shep about reactivating the nanites it was already too late (I believe) for the hyperdrive to work- so it's not like they could have gone anywhere anyways. Would they rather let her die and then they all would have died or save her and deal with whatever happens next?