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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Put simlpy, those materials output amounts of energy that completely exceed what even reasonable densities of antimatter can do, by several orders of magnitude.

    At some time, people talk about a crystaline nature or something, I can't remember, but that doesn't explain much.

    So what's the most trendy technobabbled hypothesis in the clubs right now?

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel 2ndgenerationalteran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    A heavy metal element with an atomic number higher than 200 probably, extremely dense so that a single brick maybe more than 300 ilbs. Naquadriah is either a different isotope or a new element with an even higher atomic number.
    Their white flags are no match to our guns!!

  3. #3
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Im 99% sure Naqudria is an isotope.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    So what's the most trendy technobabbled hypothesis in the clubs right now?
    I'm not sure if it's canon, but some speculated that it is energized by neutrinos.

    I'm guessing the element the asgard use - neutronium. also has a similar property and actually gets its name from its interaction with neutrinos, not the actual neutron matter that we call neutronium (which can not exist in atmospheric pressures).

  5. #5
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    I dunno. It probably is something like:

    "the crystalline structure of Naqahdah allows it to access subspace energy nodes"

    or some such stupid explanation. That is wild speculation of course.

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    See, a gatebuster, by the time of First Strike, can be as small as a sidewinder.

    Since the lowest estimated yield is 812 gigatons, it would require 18901.3 kg of antimatter to obtain that much energy.
    That said, due to neutrino waste (60%), you'd need 47253.25 kg of antimatter, and a perfect reaction, to obtain 812 gigatons of destructive energy.
    More than 47 tonnes of antimatter.

    So we're obviously looking at a material that is dense, sure, but which has a very exotic effect attached to it.

    Are we going to think about those exotic particles that throw the laws of physics, so E=mc² has no real use here?

  7. #7
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    See, a gatebuster, by the time of First Strike, can be as small as a sidewinder.
    A sidewinder missile has a 12.7 cm (5 inch) diameter. The warheads in the horizon platform were about the same size as a MIRV found in a Trident missile, which are approximately .75 meters in diameter at the base and 2 meters tall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    Since the lowest estimated yield is 812 gigatons, it would require 18901.3 kg of antimatter to obtain that much energy.
    That said, due to neutrino waste (60%), you'd need 47253.25 kg of antimatter, and a perfect reaction, to obtain 812 gigatons of destructive energy.
    More than 47 tonnes of antimatter.
    Yeah, the math certainly doesn't add up. I mean, that's equivalent to more anti-matter than has been created by humanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    So we're obviously looking at a material that is dense, sure, but which has a very exotic effect attached to it.

    Are we going to think about those exotic particles that throw the laws of physics, so E=mc² has no real use here?
    It's not like the writers/producers have a science adviser to tell them when they're dead wrong regarding physics, though they should. They have an Airforce adviser so they get the military aspects of the show correct (for the most part), so a science adviser on a science fiction show would make a lot of sense.

    Lets just call it 'bad physics'.
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  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Zatnikitelman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    You do realize that E=MC^2 would yield a huge energy amount that probably exceeds whatever small amount of energy is required to vaporise a planet. One gigaton equals 4.184*10^18 joules or 4.18 exajoules. An object of only 100 Kg if perfectly converted into energy yields 8.98*10^18 or 8.98 Exajoules. Assuming, more than one hundred kilograms of material are used, you're talking about a huge amount of energy even when factoring in the inefficiencies.
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  9. #9
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatnikitelman View Post
    You do realize that E=MC^2 would yield a huge energy amount that probably exceeds whatever small amount of energy is required to vaporise a planet.
    I recall from a physics class that got out of hand that vapourizing a planet the size of Earth would take about 50 million gigatons. EDIT: Assuming I did this right, using your numbers for how much energy is released in one gigaton of TNT, it would mean you'd need about 230 thousand gigatonnes of Antimatter to vapourize a planet, assuming a perfect reaction, and a perfect energy transfer. I think. Planets are freaking huge things, and they don't like to be torn apart.

    Well, assuming by vapouring you mean "overcoming the overall gravitational bonding energy of the planet as a whole". I don't think that would actually vapourize it, more like blow it into more manageable chunks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
    Yeah, the math certainly doesn't add up. I mean, that's equivalent to more anti-matter than has been created by humanity.
    Are you crazy? We haven't even managed to create and stabilize a nanogram of antimatter, never mind 47 tonnes worth.
    Last edited by gopher65; August 1st, 2007 at 03:32 PM.

  10. #10
    Chief Master Sergeant Salas1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Now see, why do you care about this kind of stuff, if you can do these kind of calculations why are you using them to question the methods of 'writers' who aren't going to specialise in that kind of thing? Instead of using your ability for this evil, you should be using it to help the world. I can't really think of any specific ways right now, but I'm sure there are some practical situations where mathematics are useful.
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  11. #11
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by gopher65 View Post
    Are you crazy? We haven't even managed to create and stabilize a nanogram of antimatter, never mind 47 tonnes worth.
    Isn't that what I said?
    Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

    1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

  12. #12
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salas1 View Post
    Now see, why do you care about this kind of stuff, if you can do these kind of calculations why are you using them to question the methods of 'writers' who aren't going to specialise in that kind of thing? Instead of using your ability for this evil, you should be using it to help the world. I can't really think of any specific ways right now, but I'm sure there are some practical situations where mathematics are useful.
    1)I know that the writers don't specialize in this sort of thing. I just wish they'd hire someone, even someone like us, part time to do this kind of thing for them. Honestly, I wouldn't require much more than minimum wage. 10 dollars an hour and I'm good (and benefits). I'm sure that fans who are in a better financial situation than me would be willing to do it for free.

    2) I have come across a handful of situations in real life where trig or geometry were useful, 2 situations where I needed to use very simple algebra, and none where calculus would be of any help whatsoever. Everything else was either addition/subtraction or multiplication/division. Really as long as you can add and subtract on your fingers you are set for life unless you get a job in an engineering, analyst, or science capacity. Which I don't have, and likely never will.

  13. #13
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Ford Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
    Isn't that what I said?
    yeah, I guess that's what you said.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
    A sidewinder missile has a 12.7 cm (5 inch) diameter. The warheads in the horizon platform were about the same size as a MIRV found in a Trident missile, which are approximately .75 meters in diameter at the base and 2 meters tall.
    I think you got things mixed up. The warheads are inside the MIRV. They can't be of the size of the MIRV.

    Check out the AIM-9M's size.

    Then consider those pictures:
    Hanging down the roof, we can see the 6 gatebusters and 4 decoys sticking out of the Horizon MIRV.
    The Horizon platform, ready for launch.. Check out the storing racks at the back of the room, and you'll get a nice idea of the size of those things. They are really that small now.
    They open the ventral hatch.
    A look at the size of the windows.
    Side view ofthe Horizon.
    We can see the 10 heads. Useful to estimate their width with precision.


    Yeah, the math certainly doesn't add up. I mean, that's equivalent to more anti-matter than has been created by humanity.

    It's not like the writers/producers have a science adviser to tell them when they're dead wrong regarding physics, though they should. They have an Airforce adviser so they get the military aspects of the show correct (for the most part), so a science adviser on a science fiction show would make a lot of sense.

    Lets just call it 'bad physics'.
    Huh, "bad physics" about two key elements that are behind everything about Stargate.
    I would not shrugg it off like if it was a mistake in a filler episode.

  15. #15
    Captain Jarnin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    I think you got things mixed up. The warheads are inside the MIRV. They can't be of the size of the MIRV.
    I considered the Horizon as the launch vehicle, since it has the propulsion system, and the MIRVs to be the warheads inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    Huh, "bad physics" about two key elements that are behind everything about Stargate.
    What two key elements? Special effects that don't take reality and science into consideration? I mean you already did the math, right? Your conclusion was that the Horizon cannot operate as advertised.

    So it's either bad physics, or it's bad special effects (that looked really cool).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    I would not shrugg it off like if it was a mistake in a filler episode.
    Unless someone can make sense of the math, to explain how such a device can be be made so compact, then there's no other option.
    Jarnin's Law of StarGate:

    1. As a StarGate discussion grows longer, the probability of someone mentioning the Furlings approaches one.

  16. #16
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    On Star Trek: Voyager they had a single molecule named Omega that could devastate an entire star system. Now clearly that energy can't be stored inside a single molecule. While it wasn't stated on the show, I think the fan explanation was something about the molecule destabilizing a subspace interfold layer (or somesuch thing) and somehow creating a chain reaction in subspace itself.

    Given that Naqahdah is a denser energy source than Antimatter, it has to be something weird (and non-existent) like that.

  17. #17
    Stargate: Horizon Concept Artist TechnoWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    Put simlpy, those materials output amounts of energy that completely exceed what even reasonable densities of antimatter can do, by several orders of magnitude.

    At some time, people talk about a crystaline nature or something, I can't remember, but that doesn't explain much.

    So what's the most trendy technobabbled hypothesis in the clubs right now?
    Naqudah is a high-energy yield mineral, found in underground mines. The gao'uld use it as a power-source. Naquadah is assumed to be a precious mineral as well, as throughout the SG-1 series, we only know of a few locations where Naquadah was mined.

    Naquadriah is an isotope of Naquadah, and provides a substantially higher energy yield than Naquadah. However, the higher the energy of Naquadriah, the more unstable it becomes.

    More complete information can probably be found in the GateWorld Omnipedia. Click the Omnipedi link at the top of the page and you can read about all the stuff you ever wanted to know about stargate.

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarnin View Post
    I considered the Horizon as the launch vehicle, since it has the propulsion system, and the MIRVs to be the warheads inside.
    Ok. Well, the Horizon is the MIRV. The warheads inside... are just the warheads, on rocket as well.

    What two key elements? Special effects that don't take reality and science into consideration? I mean you already did the math, right? Your conclusion was that the Horizon cannot operate as advertised.

    So it's either bad physics, or it's bad special effects (that looked really cool).
    Unless someone can make sense of the math, to explain how such a device can be be made so compact, then there's no other option.
    Naqahdah and Naqahdria are behind a lot of stuff in Stargate. It's literally behind nearly everything in the show.

    I don't care if yhe explanation is some kind of technobabble. As long as it seems to get in line with formerly established lore in Stargate, I'm all for it.

    See:

    Quote Originally Posted by gopher65 View Post
    On Star Trek: Voyager they had a single molecule named Omega that could devastate an entire star system. Now clearly that energy can't be stored inside a single molecule. While it wasn't stated on the show, I think the fan explanation was something about the molecule destabilizing a subspace interfold layer (or somesuch thing) and somehow creating a chain reaction in subspace itself.

    Given that Naqahdah is a denser energy source than Antimatter, it has to be something weird (and non-existent) like that.
    That one seems good. Of course, it's completely out there, but we know a couple of things about subspace in Stargate, notably we have the record of a couple of subspace related events, which led to very powerful incidents.

    Hyperspace is subspace related.
    Here's a couple of hyperspace related facts, that demonstrate how subspace does contain (hefty amounts of (weird)) energy:

    1. The destruction of the first O'neill class, escaping Halla. The tremendous explosion was so powerful that it literally pushed Thor's Biliskner sideways, and the explosion started at a hell of a distance.
      Right now, I don't know the amount of energy necessary to push a Biliskner sideways, say by 50 m, in the event of a few frames, but it must be high.
      It made the ship's shields completely glow (very similar to the titanical explosion of Apophis' supership in Enemies).
    2. The explosion of the stargate, in Redemption. It occured at 3 million miles away from Earth, yet it completely whitened the screen, and the coronal expansion was moving very fast, and looked several times bigger than the moon, as it would be seen from the same distance.
    3. A certain form of hyperspace radiations that can damage certain parts of Wraith ships, when flying in hyperspace.


    In time, I'll try to get a compilation of all the events and quotes which just demonstrate how powerful naqahdah and naqahdria are.

  19. #19
    Captain gopher65's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Not to mention the fact that ZPMs draw their energy from subspace in an artificially created mini-verse. And Trinity attempted to (and did) draw huge amounts of power directly from subspace in our reality.

  20. #20
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

    Yep, good point.

    Another question.

    What reaction naqahdah and naqahdria undergo to release energy?

    Let's say, still using the exotic energy component, that the initial burst of energy relase is triggered by a normal fusion, and that this serves as a catalyst to have naqahdah and naqahdria induce their exotic mechanism, to release lots of energy.

    Now, what if we replaced that hypothetical initial fusion reaction by an anihilation process?

    Say, making naqahdah react with anti-naqahdah (and naqahdria react with anti-naqahdria). Anihilation processes are more than 140 times more powerful than the fusions we can achieve.

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