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    The WW2 Discussion Thread

    I've started this thread up because a WW2 discussion came up in the british X-304 thread. Since those involved probably still have a lot to say, I thought it would be a good idea to spin it off as a new thread. Here's where I left off:

    Originally posted by USMCgrunt View Post
    Germany declaring war on us didn't mean anything in the big picture at the time. It was a statement on paper and in words nothing more. If the US would of decided not to participate in the war in Europe and remained isolationists it would of not affected us at all. Germany would of eventually vanquished England and Russia without the steady stream of supplies coming in from the US to both. After that they would of had to cross the Atlantic to make it here. The US would of been just fine if we would of stayed out of the European war during WWII.
    I suspect that Hitler would've fallen eventually, since Germany would not be able to defeat Russia. Not convinced? Check the siege of Leningrad. It looked like Germany was going to achieve a victory but in the end their forces were annihilated. Then there was the battle of Stalingrad - more than 850,000 Axis casualties

    If the US had not intervened then chances are I'd probably be speaking Russian, not German (The Russians pushing the Eastern front would probably have taken Berlin and perhaps most of (if not) of Germany. With Russia being the dominant power in Europe, there would probably have been another war afterwards.)

    by the way, one last thing. Germany declaring war on America would not just be a document "on paper" - Even if America did not fight in Europe, American shipping would still, legally, be fair game to the German Navy.
    Last edited by the_dark_light; 18 July 2007, 08:31 AM. Reason: One more thing
    The drums, the drums, the never ending drumbeat! Open me you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!

    #2
    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

    Without America opening the second front in France, Hitler could have moved all of his forces into Russia. Eventually, they simply would have overwhelmed the Russian forces, or at the very least held them until spring.

    It was only because of the Allied offensive (thanks to America's timely assistance) that the Western Front was opened and sucked troops away from the East. I think you severely understate the impact that had on the war.

    (I'm America, but I'm not trying to say we're better and saved the world, blah blah blah. I know that Britain played a major role in these events, as well, but it was America that truly tipped the balance.)
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      #3
      I've always found WW2 fascinating, I love to read up on the history of it and the lives of the people involved on wikipedia. The most terrifying aspect from what I've learned was most definitely the holocaust. How could they kill so many people like that?

      From what I've heard, we didn't find out about the camps until after the war, right?
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        #4
        well without the U.S. intervention the russians would have to spread their resources to france spain and italy ad i dont think the russians could do that alone, it took 3 countries to take that front, another thing is that the russians would have to move on north africa that would definatly spread their resources thin

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          #5
          It was Hitler attacking Russia that turned the tide in the war, before that Germany probubly could have won, Although i don't believe that any one county can claim to have won the war, without co operation no one would have won, and argueing about who did what is stupid, its better to look at the reasons we did it

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            #6
            im just say russia cant win alont it took vast man power and couperation to crush the axis forces

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              #7
              Originally posted by the_dark_light View Post
              I suspect that Hitler would've fallen eventually, since Germany would not be able to defeat Russia. Not convinced? Check the siege of Leningrad. It looked like Germany was going to achieve a victory but in the end their forces were annihilated.
              The Soviet Union could have defeated Germany without the US troops fighting in Europe- although this is not certain- but it would sure as hell not have been able to do that were it not for the American supplies they were receiving via the lend-lease program. For some reason, the enormous significance of American industry is almost ignored when World war II is being discussed. The Russians produced better weapons than anything the Americans could supply to them at any moment of the war- but the need to produce massive quantities of weapons meant that the USSR couldn't produce much else. Virtually all locomotives Russia was using were supplied by the US. Russian air force was built out of US-supplied aluminium (they lost all of their aluminium production during the first couple of months of the war) and flew on US-supplied fuel. All of the famous Russian Katuyshas were mounted on US-made Studebecker trucks, and all of the jeeps that served as commander vehicles were US-made Willys jeeps. The Russian infantry wore US-made boots, ate tinned beef made in USA and carried American-made explosives in their locally-assembled hand grenades.

              Then there was the battle of Stalingrad - more than 850,000 Axis casualties
              And the Russians lost close to 1 200 000. Which brings me to another factor- mainpower. The Red Army was suffering horrific losses even when it was winning, and by the end of the war their infantry was experiencing severe manpower problems, to the point when many units came to consist mostly of Poles, Czechs and other citizens of newly-liberated countries, as well as freed forced laborers brought by the Germans to Prussia from various conquered lands. The American army drawing away German manpower from the Eastern front and British and US airforce disrupting German industrial production was certainly very helpful for the Russians.
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                #8
                Originally posted by mappalazarou View Post
                From what I've heard, we didn't find out about the camps until after the war, right?
                Wrong.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Womble View Post
                  wow really? Churchill knew?
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by mappalazarou View Post
                    wow really? Churchill knew?
                    and he did nothing about it

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by mappalazarou View Post
                      wow really? Churchill knew?
                      The Americans, too.
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                        #12
                        And what would we have been able to do to stop it?
                        The drums, the drums, the never ending drumbeat! Open me you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!

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                          #13
                          i dont realy know since its WW II my solutions cant be employed

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by the_dark_light View Post
                            And what would we have been able to do to stop it?
                            I was waiting for someone to say that. Even WITH the knowledge of it going on, what, exactly, could the Allies do?
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by the_dark_light View Post
                              And what would we have been able to do to stop it?
                              Bomb the railways, for one, disrupt the delivery of prisoners to the extermination camps. They could put pressure on the Vatican to take an overt stance against the Holocaust and call upon all Catholics to shelter Jews from the Nazis whenever possible (the population of most of the Nazi-conquered states was Catholic, and such a call could have had an impact). At the very least, they could change their immigration policies and quit sending Jewish refugees back to Europe to certain death.
                              If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.- Abba Eban.

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