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    Isn't the Trust right? Endgame total spoilers

    Hi, spoilers everywhere

    I saw the Trust sending missiles through the gate, spreading in the entire atmosphere a gaz that killed only Gulds and Jaffas, focusing on their symbiotes.

    SGC opposed that strategy, because - they say - it kills millions of innocent Jaffas who are rebelling against their lords. During the show I bought that, cause the Trust are the villains. Thereafter I began to think:

    - Well, villains... they still fight Gulds and defend Earth, and behave with a certain degree of respect and politeness... seems like very palatable villains to me.

    - Their tactic is hugely efficient, killing all the Gulds present on a planet thanks to a single missile through the gate. Can do several planets a day. Almost a pity that SGC didn't implement that before, no?

    - Jaffas are rebelling, well... some are... but the previous episodes have shown that there is no guarantee that Teal'c 's subversive action will be widespread, lasting... and for the moment most Jaffas are still the ennemy army.

    - It is true that professionnal officers will try to avoid unnecessary casualties, hence behave a bit like SG1. But we're dealing with saving Tauri's butt, and the Jaffas are not civilians. That is fake professionalism.

    - The weapon DOES NOT harm uninfested humans, nor equipment, nor the ecosystem. Seems to me so good that it is to consider.

    - Suffering heavy losses would help the Jaffa lose morale as regards the godness of their masters, and would entice them to shift to tretonin.

    - The Trust has come up with such good weapons and such a clear intention as a clandestine movement. Doesn't that make government supported SGC as a whole a bit losers in comparison?

    - Well if ANY point above is invalid, that episode showed us SG1 defeating people who were almost winning the war... ain't a bit curious?

    Just wondering...
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    #2
    you do have some interesting points...but the Trust's use of the gas constitutes nothing less than genocide, and makes us, in some ways, no better than the Goa'uld.
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      #3
      1) That is condeming an entire race (jaffa) for being enslaved against their will. Let's not forget the Tok'ra. Even if you don't like them, you can't possibly think they deserve to die.

      2) If you don't kill all the Goa'uld in a short amount of time, Earth is screwed. Who knows if the Trust even has enough of that stuff to take out all the Goa'uld.

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        #4
        They condemn the Jaffa for 'just following orders' yet they are using an ends justify the means argument to say it's okay to use biological warfare. Rang hugely hypocrtical to me.

        There are important military reasons that chemical and biological warefare are considered ineffective weapons. The Goa'uld are not stupid, and sooner rather than later they would have found a way to counter the Trust's methods. They didn't appear to have a back up plan.

        If you don't take out all the goa'uld you end up making the survivors both stronger, and give them more of a reason to go after Earth because they don't have to worry about defending themselves from other Goa'uld.

        So no, they aren't right.


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          #5
          right now, what the trust has done, theoretically, is massivley ticked off the jaffa, goauld and tok'ra. We, (yes, not all of us, but it was a human that 'pulled the trigger') have mass murdered several planets full of people, with little regard to whether they were 'good' or 'bad'

          How do we know that they didn't bomb haktyl (yeah, unlikely, but theoretically possible) and killed all of ishta's non-tretonined people?

          Their rationale would be the same as 'ok, one person from country X is planning a terrorist attack, so we're gonna nuke the whole country to keep ti from happening again'

          It is genocide and it's murder.

          Now, let's say we had a planet full of nice innocent humans, remember back in The Sentinel? The planet was invaded by Svarog's troops. Ok, so now we have a planet and an occupying force. It MIGHT be justified then. Especially if rooting out allthe jaffa were going to take weeks of heavy fighting with large death tolls.

          But to murder someone who hasn't attacked you just to keep them from possibly doing it some day? That's wrong.

          And, if the show follows up on it, the fallout from what the Trust has done could be unimaginable. Earth could find itself taking the brunt of a joint tok'ra/goa'uld/jaffa attack, to destroy the drug to keep us from ever using it again
          Where in the World is George Hammond?


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            #6
            Why would the Jaffa immediately die from the Goa'uld poison? Shouldn't it take a few hours? Teal'c (before tretonin) has been without a symbiote for quite a while before keeling over. The only explanation I can think of is that the Trust added a fast-acting contagion that can be easily fought off by even a weak immune system, but would be instantly devastating to someone without an immune response.
            Secretary-General of GATO ¤ Defender of F.O.R.D.

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              #7
              realistically, they should die slowly.

              it should be something like a combination of the loss of thier immune system and contamination from the symbiote's blood. we saw how teal'c's dad died, cronos crushed his primta in his pouch and he died slowly from the blood.

              I think the sudden nature of their death is a plot device. If they were releasing a contagion at the same time to kill the human part, then teal'c should have got it.

              I can't even understand how zarin died so fast. it aws the snake, not the host. and the host should have been able to survive, especially if it wasn't a case like the goauld with total subjucation of the host over centuries
              Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                #8
                Originally posted by Skydiver
                If they were releasing a contagion at the same time to kill the human part, then teal'c should have got it.
                That's why I added the caveat that people with even they weakest immune system could fight it off without even noticing it, but since Jaffa (without tretonin) have no natural immune system, they die.
                I can't even understand how Zarin died so fast. It kills the snake, not the host, and the host should have been able to survive, especially if it wasn't a case like the Goa'uld with total subjucation of the host over centuries.
                I know that Goa'uld can kill their own hosts by releasing a toxin; perhaps Zarin didn't have the time or wherewithall to prevent that toxin from being released...or it could be your blood mixture theory.
                It should be something like a combination of the loss of thier immune system and contamination from the symbiote's blood. we saw how Teal'c's dad died, Cronos crushed his prim'ta in his pouch and he died slowly from the blood.
                I like this theory, but is there any evidence that the symbiotes bleed when exposed to the poison?
                Secretary-General of GATO ¤ Defender of F.O.R.D.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Major Tyler
                  I like this theory, but is there any evidence that the symbiotes bleed when exposed to the poison?
                  The bleeding theory was the only way I was justifying the host's death in my head as I was watching. A hemoraging dying symbiont. But i have no evidence.


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                    #10
                    maybe because the symbiote was in control of the host at the time of the release.

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                      #11
                      Or maybe it was just more dramatic that way.

                      As to the question, even if we ignore the massive moral issues (this is a plan tantamount to nerve gassing everything East of Belgium in an attempt to kill off Osama bin Laden, after all), the Trust are basically advertising Earth as your one stop shop for all your genocidal sneckwad needs. Imagine if this were first contact with the Asgard, or even the Nox; I don't think we'd be getting a nod and a smile and a 'sometimes the very young do not do what they are told'. This is more a situation for 'sometimes the very young need a damn good hiding!'

                      The Trust don't know what's out there and in that scenario it is best to tread very, very carefully. Just for starters, before I started on any plan like this one, I'd want to be damn sure the poison works on kull warriors, because the symbiote sedative sure as hell didn't.
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                        #12
                        Well, hey...Hitler was freezing Jews to learn the effects of extremely cold weather on humans so his troops could better prepare to take over Russia.
                        But it was all for science and to win the war, right?

                        It's an extreme point, but what I'm getting at is sometimes the ends just don't justify the means... killing innocent people for ANY reason still makes you a monster.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sarcazmo The Clown
                          It's an extreme point, but what I'm getting at is sometimes the ends just don't justify the means... killing innocent people for ANY reason still makes you a monster.
                          What if a doctor gives a lethal dose of medication to allow a person to die quickly, painlessly and with dignity instead of in extended agony? I'm not really disagreeing with you, just cautioning against sweeping generalisations.
                          Behold the majesty that is...GERALD!
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Major Tyler
                            I like this theory, but is there any evidence that the symbiotes bleed when exposed to the poison?
                            no evidence unless you use examples of those nasty diseases whose names escape me right now...ebola and the like. They break down the body and the bodies leak blood quite copiously. it's possible that the poison does just this, destroys the goauld body
                            Where in the World is George Hammond?


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                              #15
                              Everything has degrees. And there is a difference between euthanasia, which is normally done with the consent of the patient, or the patient's family, and cold blooded murder.

                              There is a difference between 'i have inoperable cancer and have 2 weeks to live' and 'hey, she's a _______. they're evil people, let's kill them all'

                              The trust were murdering jaffa solely based on the fact that they were jaffa.
                              Where in the World is George Hammond?


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