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Free Jaffa, Transformed Wraith - The lost of immortality?

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    Free Jaffa, Transformed Wraith - The lost of immortality?

    Why would like the Jaffa to be free, if they can live only a shorter life with tretonin? They can live for 120-150 years, but a human can live only for 50-80 years.

    Is it good for the Wraith to be human with Beckett's retrovirus? They can live for centuries, thousand years, if they can feed upon humans! A little hunger shouldn't change their mind. Why would a Wraith blow up himself in the battle, if he can live so long? They had enough time to think philospohical about their existence.

    I think our heroes (SG-1 and Atlantis crew) and the series writers didn't think about this moral question and desires, when they began to change this two race into humans.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

    #2
    The Jaffa were slaves under the Goa'uld. One could argue that they could keep on using Goa'uld queens as slaves to produce new symbiotes, but that would in itself be an act of evil.



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      #3
      Originally posted by Platschu View Post
      I think our heroes (SG-1 and Atlantis crew) and the series writers didn't think about this moral question and desires, when they began to change this two race into humans.
      What moral question? For the Jaffa to live longer they need a symbiote in thier pouches which enslaves them to the Goa'uld (or whoever controlls the larval Gou'ald). Yes they might live longer but as slaves. Even if the Jaffa took control it would just turn them into slavemasters themselves (and the reverse of the Gou'ald) - The Jaffa would be enslaving a sentient species in order to extend their lives. So they may live shorter lives but they would be a lot more moral than the other option. Also it has to happen at some point as there is a short supply of simbiotes. The only way to have enough simbiotes to sustain the entire Jaffa nation would probably be to have a few captive queens and force breed them - again making them slave masters.

      As for the wraith they probably don't have to feed on humans, lesser lifeforms would probably suffice. Also I think people have a problem with the fact that they harvest communities - you watch one of your friends or relatives being drained of life by one of them and see if you think they should be able to continue their lifestyle.

      The producers don't specifically want them turned into humans - they want the Jaffa to be free and have their own culture, but that means ridding them of the simbiotes and they want the Wraith to stop feeding off humans and decimating planets. Turning them back to human is the end result of the treatment - If I remember correctly they where humanish originally then got turned into Wraith through interaction with the bug on thier planet.
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        #4
        I'm not sure using tretonin has any effect on their lifespan

        Unending Spoilers:
        Spoiler:

        Teal'c is what? 130~ ? and he still looks like he has many more years to live

        also consider that when a Jaffa reaches a certain age the symbiote rejects them and they die.

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          #5
          Since the Jaffa no longer are forced to kill each other, the population would grow out of control if they all lived so long

          I know I know there's tons of places for them, but forever?
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            #6
            Yeah, but the Wraith sleep for hundreds of years at a time, maybe they only live a total number of years that a human would live anyway. Yeah, I know the whole part about feeding = living forever but still, if you lived 10000 years but most of them were time sleeping, you wouldn't have actually "lived" your life very long.

            The Tretonin seems to work better than a symbiote for the Jaffa. I mean, Teal'c was already 110 or so and he lived 40 more years onboard the Odyssey that would make him 150 and Bra'tac is 140 and looks old so the Tretonin makes you live longer than a symbiote would. Plus, Bra'tac wouldn't be around today if it wasn't for tretonin.

            Vala,

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              #7
              Yeah but potentially they may not have the tretonin for ever. Unless someone can make it synthetically, then eventually they will run out of simbiotes to grind up unless they force breed them (see my post above for arguments on that). I imagine that it is only adults and implanted youngsters that need it now. Any babies born from now on will not be implanted, so will not need to take tretonin to replace a simbiote they never had, so should live a normal, not extended lifespan.
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                #8
                Originally posted by Platschu View Post
                Why would like the Jaffa to be free, if they can live only a shorter life with tretonin? They can live for 120-150 years, but a human can live only for 50-80 years.
                Tretonin doesn't shorten the Jaffa's lifespan.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mousie View Post
                  Yeah but potentially they may not have the tretonin for ever. Unless someone can make it synthetically, then eventually they will run out of simbiotes to grind up unless they force breed them (see my post above for arguments on that). I imagine that it is only adults and implanted youngsters that need it now. Any babies born from now on will not be implanted, so will not need to take tretonin to replace a simbiote they never had, so should live a normal, not extended lifespan.
                  I think they do make Tretonin synthetically already, as far as future Jaffa not needing it I don't believe that to be true. A Jaffa's immune system is engineered to break down at about the time they reach 12 so they'd still need a symbiote or tretonin.
                  All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing-Edmund Burke

                  The question which once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own... and yet, how ironic! For I now find, I have no choice at all! I am warrior... let the battle be joined.-Dinobot-Code of Hero

                  Don't blame me, I voted Cthulhu

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Mousie View Post
                    As for the wraith they probably don't have to feed on humans, lesser lifeforms would probably suffice.
                    Ellia was raised by a human who she loved as a father. She lived on ordinary food until she reached a certain age and was forced to start feeding on humans in order to survive. She hated what she was so much that she dosed herself with Beckett's original retrovirus with tragic results. I'm guessing that she probably tried feeding on other life forms and discovered that it didn't work for some reason or other.

                    Originally posted by Mousie View Post
                    and they want the Wraith to stop feeding off humans and decimating planets. Turning them back to human is the end result of the treatment - If I remember correctly they where humanish originally then got turned into Wraith through interaction with the bug on thier planet.
                    From 'Instinct' -

                    BECKETT: .... Right now, our best guess is that the Wraith evolved from the iratus bug.

                    BECKETT: ... We speculated that they evolved into the Wraith when they began to take on the characteristics of the humans they were feeding on.


                    From Vengeance -

                    Spoiler:

                    About Michaels' creations.

                    TEYLA: ... or perhaps it was created by combining the genetic elements of the Iratus bug with the Taranans.

                    McKAY: Which is, as we know, exactly how the Wraith evolved. When the Iratus bug bites human, human DNA mixes with theirs, a thousand years go by... Wraith.


                    Later on Michael confirms that Iratus bugs absorb human DNA when feeding on humans.

                    MICHAEL: [voice over] I allowed the bug to gorge itself, to absorb as much human DNA as possible. This... of course, led to the death of the subject.
                    sigpic

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                      #11
                      I think the TPTB should have made such a free Jaffa group, who will not accept tretonin and would like to use Goa'uld larvas to be healed and have longer life. Tretonin can't give such advantages, because the medicine replace the larvas. So try to imagine a free Jaffa. You can be free with tretonin or with the Goa'uld larva. You can live 70-90 years or 120-160 years. I don't think they will choose the tretonin. This is not logical.

                      What about the Wraith? Why will they die sometimes like a kamikaze in a battle? Such a great race, who can travel through solar sytems with ships, won't sacrifice so easily. If they are rushed over by enemies, what can be the worst? If they shoot him down, than he will die quickly. If they shoot him down and he uses the explosives on his chest, he can kill more enemies, but he will die too. So the third option that they will imprison him (see Common Ground), but maybe he can flee later. I think if we think of our existense, we will grab every oppurtinity to live more.

                      And what about the Goa'uld and Tok'Ra? If they live so long, than they should have enough experience about military tactics, friends, enemies. I think they won't fight with their enemies face to face, because a half-immortal creature live and see his/her life totally other compared to the mortals. They should send troops, but i hardly think they will risk their lives in the battles. You can see good examples, if you watch Highlander or vampire stories (Interview with a vampire).
                      "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

                      "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

                      "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by ciannwn View Post
                        Ellia was raised by a human who she loved as a father. She lived on ordinary food until she reached a certain age and was forced to start feeding on humans in order to survive. She hated what she was so much that she dosed herself with Beckett's original retrovirus with tragic results. I'm guessing that she probably tried feeding on other life forms and discovered that it didn't work for some reason or other.



                        From 'Instinct' -

                        BECKETT: .... Right now, our best guess is that the Wraith evolved from the iratus bug.

                        BECKETT: ... We speculated that they evolved into the Wraith when they began to take on the characteristics of the humans they were feeding on.


                        From Vengeance -

                        Spoiler:

                        About Michaels' creations.

                        TEYLA: ... or perhaps it was created by combining the genetic elements of the Iratus bug with the Taranans.

                        McKAY: Which is, as we know, exactly how the Wraith evolved. When the Iratus bug bites human, human DNA mixes with theirs, a thousand years go by... Wraith.


                        Later on Michael confirms that Iratus bugs absorb human DNA when feeding on humans.

                        MICHAEL: [voice over] I allowed the bug to gorge itself, to absorb as much human DNA as possible. This... of course, led to the death of the subject.
                        Ahh, ok, i've only seen season 1 and that was a while ago.
                        sigpic

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by jenks View Post
                          Tretonin doesn't shorten the Jaffa's lifespan.
                          Exactly
                          Spoiler:
                          Unending shows us that Teal'c manages to live on Tretonin and his age doesn't accelerate at the same rate as everyone else's even though he is already a lot older than them


                          Tretonin was synthetically made on earth before being given to Teal'c, Bra'tac or anyone else.

                          In regards to Ellia I believe (without looking up the quote) that they referenced
                          Spoiler:
                          how she used to feed off lesser creatures and then gradually moved on to humans. This is how I remember the episode anyway


                          It's an interesting question in regards to whether humans are doing the right thing by the wraith or not - they are after all basically an evolution of a human with a bug. However considering the way they are behaving I cannot blame everyone on Atlantis for at least giving it a go. They sleep for hundreds of years in order to give the humans time to repopulate their worlds only to harvest them again.

                          IMO - I can't see any sentient being allowing that to happen to others of their kind.
                          "But I want to do community service, I want to teach the handicapped how to yodel"

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by katTheBird View Post
                            In regards to Ellia I believe (without looking up the quote) that they referenced
                            Spoiler:
                            how she used to feed off lesser creatures and then gradually moved on to humans. This is how I remember the episode anyway
                            I've just been looking at the transcript again. All Ellia says is that Zaddik's serum didn't work and she went out to feed when she sensed that the other Wraith on the planet was doing so. Zaddick says nothing about other creatures either -

                            ...she survived on food and water like any young girl.

                            Then the hunger came.

                            She took ... what she needed from me ... to survive ... until ... I perfected the serum.


                            In Poisoning The Well, Sheppard says of Steve -

                            He's going to die. I tried to feed him all sorts of live stuff but apparently there's only one item on his menu.

                            Originally posted by katTheBird View Post
                            It's an interesting question in regards to whether humans are doing the right thing by the wraith or not - they are after all basically an evolution of a human with a bug. However considering the way they are behaving I cannot blame everyone on Atlantis for at least giving it a go. They sleep for hundreds of years in order to give the humans time to repopulate their worlds only to harvest them again.
                            Humans are trying to protect themselves which is perfectly understandable under the circumstances. Before the retrovirus there were two ways of doing this - hide or kill the Wraith if you could. The retrovirus doesn't kill Wraith but it does result in amnesia. It's also got to be given to them on a regular basis so they don't turn back. The ones in Misbegotten were effectively institutionalised so the rv approach isn't much fun from the Wraith's point of view.
                            sigpic

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Platschu View Post
                              I think the TPTB should have made such a free Jaffa group, who will not accept tretonin and would like to use Goa'uld larvas to be healed and have longer life. Tretonin can't give such advantages, because the medicine replace the larvas. So try to imagine a free Jaffa. You can be free with tretonin or with the Goa'uld larva. You can live 70-90 years or 120-160 years. I don't think they will choose the tretonin. This is not logical.
                              The Goa'uld larvas don't give the Jaffa long life, they were genetically engineered to have such longevity, the larvas only work too heal them and work as their immune system.

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