Weapons in "Unending" - Massive SPOILERS for "Unending"

[Gen. Nuke]

What if we can produce the new Odessey's weapons at a rate the there is more of these weapons can be produce than the Ship that will be armed with this. What other weapons platform that can use this new weapon?

Included in the weapon system are the cannon, sensors, and the powersource. And I think the asgard weapon installed in the Odessey uses only a fraction of the Asgard power core installed on thet ship. And we can built an independent power source only for this weapon.

I think we can also install our Military bases with this weapons, also our Naval Ships (Cruisers, Submarines, Carrier, etc), also we can install it in mobile platform such as 747's, Trucks, Tel'tak, etc.

[Wraith_Boy]

In the episode they said that the new computer had it's own power core.

The computer (powered by the power core) was tied into all the ships systems but it wasn't powering them! That's down to the ZPM.

Realistically they should be able to output them much much, much, much quicker than an entire 400 - 600m ship. When they are pretty much ready to do it (eventually) then they'll be able to produce them at a rate far quicker than they are ships.

S9/S2 - Daedalus
S10/S3 - Odyssey, Korelev, Apollo

So it's probably something like 2 a year they can output. I doubt, once they know how to make the new weapons that they'll be struggling to beat a target of 2 per year. If they can replicate them like Thor did in 'New Order', they could be making them in secs/mins.

The only other platforms that they can put them on is 302's & ground based weapons for use in places like Atlantis or Antartica. Which would be used exactly like in 'Trinity' to shoot down enemy ships that come in orbit of the planet in question.

In the SG universe why wosuld you bother installing them on submarines, 747's etc. You have a 304 in orbit, it has beaming technology that can transport an entire skyspcraper into space with ease. They have rail guns, uber warheads. 302's that travel at crazy speeds & all the rest. There would be no need for any of them to be put on standard Earth vehicles.

For instance, why fit them to a destroyer, submarine when there is something like a mountain or huge obstacle blocking your access to the target. Why not have a 304 in space to either beam them to oblivion, use the energy weapons to blast them. Even launch warheads or many many thousands of rounds per minute down on top of them courtesy of the rail guns.

The main point is that they'll never show all this stuff at all, that along with the fact that SG-1 is over now.

Not to mention, we'll be seeing upgraded rail guns in S4 of Atlantis. So don't be expecting to see these new energy weapons being deployed as quickly as you seem to think that they will be (if at all this season!)

Seeing how they have played technology throughout the years, don't be getting your hopes up for uber new ships or upgrades because chances are, they will never make it that simple!

[Gen. Nuke]

Is the F-302 too small to carry the weapon? I think we need bigger flatform.
We also need to have mobile weapon platform for that like field artilleries or SCUD Missiles.

We can speed up the production of that using the Asgard beaming technology. Only had to do is find raw materials.

[Mister Oragahn]

Are we sure the asgard weapons used against the Ori ships were powered with the help of the ZPM?

[Jimbo-DR]

Are we sure the asgard weapons used against the Ori ships were powered with the help of the ZPM?

Not at all. In fact the only canon discussion on the subject was Thor saying: "Will not infringe on this ships ZPM"

[Wraith_Boy]

Not at all. In fact the only canon discussion on the subject was Thor saying: "Will not infringe on this ships ZPM"

Put the whole quote in & you see it clearly!


THOR
"The Asgard computer core is equipped with its own power source that will not infringe on your ship's ZPM. However, when the upgrades are complete, the core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems."

The COMPUTER CORE has it's own power source. Meaning it won't take anything away from the ZPM when they use it. After the Asgard upgrades were completed, the new computer core would be integrated into all the ships systems.

Later on in the ep:

CARTER
There's no way to absorb the blast and channel the energy into the Asgard core.

MITCHELL
Unless…

CARTER
Unless we reroute the power conduits throughout the ship into the core, and let the blast hit us.

If the core was powering anything else why on Earth would they need to reroute power conduits throughout the ship into it, especially since we know that the Asgard computer core was already integrated into all the ships systems.

So we do know! It was only stated that the new computer core had it's own power source. The computer was linked into all the ships systems, but it wasn't powering anything because they had to reroute power conduits throughout the ship into the core at the end of the ep. Which if it had already been supplying power to additional systems, then they wouldn't have needed to reroute anything because it'd already have been configured.

I doubt the usual power generating abilities of a 304 would be enough to let them have full shields, fly hyperdrive & powerful energy weapons. With a ZPM it boosts the shield, hyperdrive goodness knows how much. This is most likely why they'll struggle to put them on their other 304's because they don't have ZPM's to boost the weapons.

[Mister Oragahn]

Let me provide a it more than necessary, to get the context.

INT—ODYSSEY BRIEFING ROOM

[SG-1 and Landry are there, Mitchell and Carter just taking their seats.]

MITCHELL
It's a hell of a coincidence, don't you think?

CARTER
Well, unless they were tracking us and just waiting for us to drop out.

LANDRY
I thought they couldn't track us in hyperspace.

VALA
Unless it was the Ori themselves, tipping off the Priors.

DANIEL
We've already passed back into the Milky Way. As far as we know, the Ancients should have a problem with the Ori using their ascended powers right under their noses.

CARTER
As far as we know.

MITCHELL
At least we now have weapons we know will destroy an Ori ship.

CARTER
Well that's not gonna do us any good if they can track us wherever we go. I mean eventually, the Odyssey's gonna come up against more than she can handle.

TEAL'C
Is it possible the Priors can detect the new technology given to us by the Asgard without the help of the Ori?

CARTER
I suppose the new power source could be giving off some sort of unique energy signature that's detectable from sub-space. However without further experimentation, the only way to find out is to shut it off and see if that stops the Ori from following us.

LANDRY
Do it.

CARTER
The problem with that, sir, is that the new Asgard core is currently tied into every system on this ship. We would have to drop out of hyperspace and isolate the core from the hyperdrive controls, and that could take some time.

I think it's answered.
Since the core wouldn't infringe on the ZPM, and since the core was tied to all systems, the ZPM was not used.

Later on, Carter says it'd take half an hour to untie the hyperdrive from the asgard core.

And years after, Carter has managed to make the ZPM and core work together to maintain the time dilation device. Mind you, this is the most powerful dilation factor ever seen in Stargate.
The one created by the Asgards around Hala, the one protecting the path to Merlin's cache, and the Lantian sanctuary didn't have such high factors as far as I can tell.
We've never seen a fraction of a second equalling half a century.

This is all combined to the evidence that the ZPM was, apparently, never dented - though I really doubt that even an armada or Ori Crusaders could do anything to a ZPM in such an amount of time.

And, again, for the inconsistency lovers, apparently a single ori beam is enough to complete, in energy, what's missing to literally reverse the time field.
And that "missing part" wasn't even small:

CARTER
Maintaining the time dilation field for all this time has almost completely depleted the ZPM, and the power source in the Asgard core.

MITCHELL
We don't have enough power to make it work.

MITCHELL
Hey, Sam. Do you remember when we were stuck out of phase?

CARTER
Which time?

MITCHELL
When you got shot and you thought you were gonna die, and the Ori were gonna destroy that village.

CARTER
Vaguely.

MITCHELL
You had me use the power source from an Ori staff weapon to power Merlin's device.

CARTER
We don't have anything even close to a power source that would be required to keep a reverse time-field working for long enough.

MITCHELL
Really.

So the Ori ships were done with the power system in the core.

[Jimbo-DR]

Yea maybe I didn't phrase that right I was agreeing with you guys that the ZPM was NOT being used.

However it WAS used to power the dilation field, and more than likely could've been used to power things on the ship which were already there before the upgrades. All we know is that the core itself did not infringe on the ZPM

[Wraith_Boy]

Let me provide a it more than necessary, to get the context.

CARTER
The problem with that, sir, is that the new Asgard core is currently tied into every system on this ship. We would have to drop out of hyperspace and isolate the core from the hyperdrive controls, and that could take some time

.

Unfortunately you are getting the context wrong because it was explained right at the beginning of the episode!

THOR
"The Asgard computer core is equipped with its own power source that will not infringe on your ship's ZPM. However, when the upgrades are complete, the core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems."

They are referring to the computer core that Thor stated was tied into all the ships sytems. Thor doesn't refer to 'power core', only the 'computer core'. The computer core has it's own power source that won't drain anything from the ZPM. Meaning it powers the new Asgard computer, which in turn is linked into all the ships sytems. Which obviously has to be the case because it's far more advanced technology & so is more efficient in dealing with all the updated Asgard technology compared to something like a much more primitive human computer.

We know isn't powering things throughout the ships because of this:

CARTER
Unless we reroute the power conduits throughout the ship into the core, and let the blast hit us.

How could it have been powering other things in the ship if they had to reroute the power conduits throughout the ship into the Asgard power source (which has been stated was for the new computer) If this power source was powering alternative systems already then they wouldn't have been needing to reroute the conduits into the Asgard power source.

It's been stated by Thor that the computer core was tied into all the ships sytems. The bit you referenced when Carter said core, was referring to the computer core. Which controlled the time dilation field. So the power source was drained, they needed to reroute power conduits all throughout the ship into the computer core. The weapons blast hit, went though the conduits into the power core, enabling it to charge & the computer core to have enough energy to use use a reverse time dilation field. Which turned

Thor said Asgard computer core & own power source. When they refer to the core. It's the computer core. Check the episode & you'll see that 'power core' isn't used once but 'computer core' is!

Again I direct you to:

THOR
The Asgard computer core is equipped with its own power source that will not infringe on your ship's ZPM. However, when the upgrades are complete, the core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems.

CARTER
The Asgard core has time dilation field technology built right into it. It was a quick and easy option. I'm actually gonna have to recreate some of Merlin's out-of-phase technology from scratch with what we have on-board. And it could take a while.

See, not really that difficult! When she says core, she is referring to the computer core. How could a power core have time dilation technology built into it. Which when we see her activate it twice, it's the computer core which she is using. Core is the computer core, a core with it's own power source, a core that is integrated into all the ships sytems, BUT isn't powering them.

[Argosy]

LOL.

Now that that is out of the way…how about hot swappable rack mounted Mark2 naquadah generators to be decentralized/local power sources for this new Asgard beam weapons aboard ships not equipped with a ZPM?

They seem to have power output that rivals that of a ZPM for a short duration of time.

Maybe six or eight per rack getting one or two shots off per Mark2 before each one is depleted. That would afford you 6-16 shots before ever even having to swap out a generator.

Decentralization would be great in a vessel of war since it would no longer suffer from that “primary power has been lost, so are battlecruiser can’t shoot anymore” cliché.

[Mister Oragahn]

.

Unfortunately you are getting the context wrong because it was explained right at the beginning of the episode!

THOR
"The Asgard computer core is equipped with its own power source that will not infringe on your ship's ZPM. However, when the upgrades are complete, the core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems."

They are referring to the computer core that Thor stated was tied into all the ships sytems. Thor doesn't refer to 'power core', only the 'computer core'. The computer core has it's own power source that won't drain anything from the ZPM. Meaning it powers the new Asgard computer, which in turn is linked into all the ships sytems. Which obviously has to be the case because it's far more advanced technology & so is more efficient in dealing with all the updated Asgard technology compared to something like a much more primitive human computer.

We know isn't powering things throughout the ships because of this:

CARTER
Unless we reroute the power conduits throughout the ship into the core, and let the blast hit us.

How could it have been powering other things in the ship if they had to reroute the power conduits throughout the ship into the Asgard power source (which has been stated was for the new computer) If this power source was powering alternative systems already then they wouldn't have been needing to reroute the conduits into the Asgard power source.

It's been stated by Thor that the computer core was tied into all the ships sytems. The bit you referenced when Carter said core, was referring to the computer core. Which controlled the time dilation field. So the power source was drained, they needed to reroute power conduits all throughout the ship into the computer core. The weapons blast hit, went though the conduits into the power core, enabling it to charge & the computer core to have enough energy to use use a reverse time dilation field. Which turned

Thor said Asgard computer core & own power source. When they refer to the core. It's the computer core. Check the episode & you'll see that 'power core' isn't used once but 'computer core' is!

Again I direct you to:

THOR
The Asgard computer core is equipped with its own power source that will not infringe on your ship's ZPM. However, when the upgrades are complete, the core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems.

CARTER
The Asgard core has time dilation field technology built right into it. It was a quick and easy option. I'm actually gonna have to recreate some of Merlin's out-of-phase technology from scratch with what we have on-board. And it could take a while.

See, not really that difficult! When she says core, she is referring to the computer core. How could a power core have time dilation technology built into it. Which when we see her activate it twice, it's the computer core which she is using. Core is the computer core, a core with it's own power source, a core that is integrated into all the ships sytems, BUT isn't powering them.

Here's what I understand by rerouting power: they reroute power into the asgard core. Power is not supposed to be channeled into a power plant. It's supposed to come out of it.
You're thinking about cutting ans pasting conduits or whatelse, where it can be a simple matter of reverting the flux so it goes back into the core, where the time dilation device is.
This is done because the whole ship will explode, and thus the energy wil come from everywhere.
So they use the ship's power grid to route it back into the core, to abosrb as much energy as possible.

So what is your take on this? Are there two or more cores?

Let's see which cores are mentionned:

INT—ODYSSEY ENGINE CONTROL ROOM

[Thor and Carter are working at an Asgard console just added to the engine room.]

THOR
The Asgard computer core is equipped with its own power source that will not infringe on your ship's ZPM. However, when the upgrades are complete, the core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems.

The computer core has its own power source. It doesn't infringe on the ZPM.
Thor then says the core, but due to the phrasing, it's a reference to the computer core. This computer core will be fully integrated into all the ship's systems.

THOR
If you like, you'll be able to interface with the core using a holographic representation of me, or any other Asgard on record in the knowledge base.

Thor mentions the core. Again. Obviously, as it's meant to accept vocal and intelligent exchanges with humans, it's the computer core mentionned earlier on. The one with its own power source, which is tied to all systems.

CARTER
The problem with that, sir, is that the new Asgard core is currently tied into every system on this ship. We would have to drop out of hyperspace and isolate the core from the hyperdrive controls, and that could take some time.

The core. Not only I think that if there really were different cores, they would have announced it more clearly, but again, we have confirmation that the core is tied to all systems. And thus, since it's the computer core, it uses its own power source, and does't tap into the ZPM.

CARTER
We're gonna need at least half an hour to get the hyperdrive system separated from the core.

The hyperdrive, one of the ship's main systems, is actually tied to the core.

CARTER
We can't let this ship fall into enemy hands.

LANDRY
That's what the self-destruct is for.

DANIEL
(strenuously)
Whoa, wait a minute, sir. If-if you're talking about destroying this ship… We can't sacrifice the knowledge base of the Asgard. They trusted us with their legacy.

LANDRY
Doctor Jackson, this is not something I'm considering lightly.
(to Carter)
I'm assuming we can't take any of it with us.

CARTER
No, sir. The core is too big to fit through the gate.

Landry hoped the core could be detached and moved through a stargate, but it's too big. Considering that they were talking about the asgard complete database, stored in the computer, obviously, they're talking about the asgard computer core.
So we have, at this point, enough evidence that the computer core, and the core, are all the same device.

CARTER
The Asgard core has time dilation field technology built right into it. It was a quick and easy option. I'm actually gonna have to recreate some of Merlin's out-of-phase technology from scratch with what we have on-board. And it could take a while.

That core is just not a power source. It has, at least, another function, and thus hardware, added to it; time alterator.

CARTER
Maintaining the time dilation field for all this time has almost completely depleted the ZPM, and the power source in the Asgard core.

The quote which poses problem. My interpretation is that at this point, more than 50 years laterin the bubble, Carter coupled the ZPM to the core and its own power source.
Notice that she talks about the power source in the asgard core, and it's just too similar to Thor's words about the asgard computer core having its own power source.
It's just clear that it's one and unique all-in-1 system.

CARTER
There's no way to absorb the blast and channel the energy into the Asgard core.

They want to add more energy to the core which holds the time alterator.

CARTER
Unless we reroute the power conduits throughout the ship into the core, and let the blast hit us.

They have to reroute almost the whole network, so instead of dispatching energy, the core will be suckign energy in, for the time dilation device:

CARTER
Yes. But hopefully, enough energy from the blast will be channeled into the core to allow it to activate the reverse time-field before everything is totally destroyed.

CARTER
Right! We have to sever the Asgard core from the hyperdrive controls, or else the Ori will be able to follow us when we make the jump into hyperspace. A long time ago, in the event that I ever did solve the time issue, I created a program that would achieve that very quickly. I'll load it onto a crystal. That way, it will only take me a few seconds to shut down the core and make the jump into hyperspace.

At this point, the hyperdrive still is tied to the asgard core. They never had time to sever the connection, and when they were in the time bubble, it was pointless.

So there's only one core, tied to all systems, and this one core had its own power source, which didn't infringe on the ZPM.

So basically, before Carter triggered the time dilation device, it was that computer core, with its own power source, which was powering the weapons.

It seems that the Asgards removed whatever naqahdah generator they were using, since it's never mentionned.

[sperry1975]

So what's the conclusion? Can they use the weapons the Asgard installed in the Odessey on the other ships or not? I'm inclined to think yes but perhaps not with the same amount of power.
I also would like to ask why they couldn't take the Odessey to the pegusis galaxy and try powering up the Asgard system there. I wouldn't think the Ori could track them that far away. And if they took it to that galaxy without being tracked they could use the holo program to talk to Thor and figure out what to do to get rid of the signal, or what ever the Ori were using to track them, without giving up the power source. Even if they can't figure that out they can at least use the time to have Thor's holo program help them build more of the Asgard power sources to use on the other two ships they have then the odds would be a little more even, especially if they built an additional one to install at the Antartic station.

[Jimbo-DR]

So what's the conclusion? Can they use the weapons the Asgard installed in the Odessey on the other ships or not? I'm inclined to think yes but perhaps not with the same amount of power.
I also would like to ask why they couldn't take the Odessey to the pegusis galaxy and try powering up the Asgard system there. I wouldn't think the Ori could track them that far away. And if they took it to that galaxy without being tracked they could use the holo program to talk to Thor and figure out what to do to get rid of the signal, or what ever the Ori were using to track them, without giving up the power source. Even if they can't figure that out they can at least use the time to have Thor's holo program help them build more of the Asgard power sources to use on the other two ships they have then the odds would be a little more even, especially if they built an additional one to install at the Antartic station.

I'm thinking absolutely. The Asgard gave them their ENTIRE knowledge base and recorded history. Why would they give them some of the most powerful weapons to date without any way to make more of them? That just wouldn't make any sense. I'm sure that if they spent the money and time they could build plenty more of those weapons with power generators plenty big to handle them.

[jayphat99]

I also would like to ask why they couldn't take the Odessey to the pegusis galaxy and try powering up the Asgard system there. I wouldn't think the Ori could track them that far away.

Well, Orilla is in the galaxy of Ida, hence the reason Vala was "tired of being couped up on this ship". The Ori showed up there. I don't think taking the Ori into Pegasus since they know nothing of us having and outpost there now would be a good idea.

[Raj_2006]

What if we can produce the new Odessey's weapons at a rate the there is more of these weapons can be produce than the Ship that will be armed with this. What other weapons platform that can use this new weapon?

Included in the weapon system are the cannon, sensors, and the powersource. And I think the asgard weapon installed in the Odessey uses only a fraction of the Asgard power core installed on thet ship. And we can built an independent power source only for this weapon.

I think we can also install our Military bases with this weapons, also our Naval Ships (Cruisers, Submarines, Carrier, etc), also we can install it in mobile platform such as 747's, Trucks, Tel'tak, etc.

There is already a thread discussing the Odyssey and everything else, link - http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...53#post6665553 , please use the search function before opening up a new thread.