The Complainer's Challenge

[ascendedancient42]

What this thread is about
I've noticed a trend on this forum lately: many people are complaining about the writing for Stargate. I think it's almost become a mantra for some people to just blame the writers for everything they don't like and then insult the work they do.

I have maintained since I started posting here that the writing is in fact not declining, but getting better. TPTB know exactly what they're doing and they do it well. I can't say it enough: they do an excellent job.

Way too many people on these forums complain their heads off without EVER having tried to write fiction, making complaints like, "I could have done better."

Who am I to make this challenge?
I consider myself a professional Science Fiction writer. I've been writing mostly Science Fiction for more than ten years and have learned a great deal in that time about what it takes to write a good story.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not published yet, but I have placed in the semi-finals of an international Science Fiction short story contest (http://www.writersofthefuture.com/). Almost got prize money on that one... I also once got one of my stories back with "Very good story!" hand written on the return letter. Apparently, someone else's was better. Oh well, I'll take encouragement wherever I can get it.

The Challenge (For Complainers)
Quite simply put, you need to sit down and try writing fiction. Writing good fiction is quite a bit more difficult than you think. Especially when you have a huge amount of Canon to be consistent with.

Science Fiction is even harder, because if you aren't consistent with known science, no matter how obscure, someone will complain.

Here is the challenge I offer up (the official words): Sit down and write some Science Fiction, ask everyone you know to read it and then ask them to be brutally honest. They'll rake you over the coals like nothing else (in most cases). Perhaps then you'll have a little perspective.

Another option is posting a Stargate related story on the forums here, requesting brutal honesty. Make sure you bold that part, since that's what you give TPTB... I'll be happy to give you an honest critique if you PM me a link (I usually ignore the fanfic area). I promise I won't insult your work, but I'll point out every flaw I can find and tell you whether I like your story or not, along with reasons why.

If you want to partake of this challenge publicly (for the very brave), post a link in this thread; I'm sure there's plenty of us around to give you brutal honesty. Heck, if you meet my extremely high standards for science fiction, I'll give you green. I encourage any other professionals in the room to do the same.

Final words
Good luck to those taking the challenge publicly. You're very brave.

To others: don't be rude. Just be honest. I don't want people getting their feelings hurt here. I just want the complainers to understand the process they're complaining about.

[Jackie]

If one takes the time to sift through the files of stories--you can find a number of them on this site that are far better than what is coming out of the writer's room now.

http://www.fanfiction.net/

Some of the stories on this site are professional quality. Too bad most of those writers don't work for Stagate.

PS-I am a writer too. I am in the middle of writing my own series. It's not ready yet. When it is--I will post some.

[LogicSequence]

good, better, best, it's all subjective. It's different to different people. one person's great is another's horrible. You can't please everyone, you can only strive to please the majority, which is what the Atlantis writers do, and DO WELL in my opinion.

People like to complain, it's in our nature, but at some point, it gets old and becomes a battle cry; and then the reason behind the complaint is lost and irrelevant, and it becomes simply only about complaining, which is what has happened on these boards.

It's no longer about the writing, or cast changes, or episodic content, it has become only about complaining and drawing out the conflict. One wonders if the people complaining even care about what they complain about any more, or if they now only care about wanting to be able to say "i told you so".

Their message has become lost in their quest to be "right". And because of that, their arguments have literally become... pointless.

[ACharmedAsgard]

What this thread is about
I've noticed a trend on this forum lately: many people are complaining about the writing for Stargate. I think it's almost become a mantra for some people to just blame the writers for everything they don't like and then insult the work they do.

I have maintained since I started posting here that the writing is in fact not declining, but getting better. TPTB know exactly what they're doing and they do it well. I can't say it enough: they do an excellent job.

Way too many people on these forums complain their heads off without EVER having tried to write fiction, making complaints like, "I could have done better."

I can see where you are coming from but there is just a little issue. All you have said is Your Opinion. You think the writting is getting better and you think too many people are complaining, but everyone has a right to their own opinion - it's life. You have to just take in the fact that some people simply don't agree.

I do however think your idea of asking people to try it out before slamming it is a very good idea though and should be considered - as it may well change their minds.

[ascendedancient42]

I can see where you are coming from but there is just a little issue. All you have said is Your Opinion. You think the writting is getting better and you think too many people are complaining, but everyone has a right to their own opinion - it's life. You have to just take in the fact that some people simply don't agree.

I do however think your idea of asking people to try it out before slamming it is a very good idea though and should be considered - as it may well change their minds.

I could have just complained about complaining. Instead, I choose to try and change people's minds. I probably won't succeed, but at least I've tried. I know I'm pushing my own opinion, but so are the complainers, who seem much more vocal.

Creating discussion about Science Fiction writing is another of my purposes, especially as it relates to Stargate.

I'd like to see less complaining on the forum, but I don't expect that to happen. No big deal. Some people enjoy complaining; human nature, as another poster pointed out.

I hope to read a story or two from a brave soul that's never tried before. I'd like to give them some pointers and such.

[Jackie]

I could have just complained about complaining. Instead, I choose to try and change people's minds. I probably won't succeed, but at least I've tried. I know I'm pushing my own opinion, but so are the complainers, who seem much more vocal.

Creating discussion about Science Fiction writing is another of my purposes, especially as it relates to Stargate.

I'd like to see less complaining on the forum, but I don't expect that to happen. No big deal. Some people enjoy complaining; human nature, as another poster pointed out.

I hope to read a story or two from a brave soul that's never tried before. I'd like to give them some pointers and such.

looking for an editing job--are we?

[ascendedancient42]

looking for an editing job--are we?

Naw, I just want to pass on a little bit of my wisdom and change a few minds. I get enough editing work with my own writing.

Lots of other writers have helped me; I want to pass that tradition along if I can.

The changing of minds is the more important one to me right now, though.

[Wraith_Boy]

It's nothing to do with whinging being a mainstay among SG fans in general, look all across the internet & you'll see the same. Be that, movies, tv, sports, forums & so on.

Moaning is something people across the world like to do. Yes some of it can be out of order & totally unjustified. However there really isn't anything that can be done other than ignore the trolls who are guilty of it.

Nothing in life is perfect, everything has it's good points & it's bad points. No matter how hard someone tries, they can never appease everyone....That's just life!

Therefore I think it for the good of the show that fans speak out about things that they feel is wrong with the show, along with what they think is being done correctly. Especially given the fact that TPTB lurk around here regularly, which means they do get the messages of joe public. So they pick up on it & it probably gives them stuff to take into further seasons that they might not have originally been planning, or even cut out something that has the fans in a frenzy. Therefore if there is a really strong issue among the fans then they can address it the next time around. Such as if they had plans to make Lucius a recurring character etc.

If I was making a show, I'd want fans to be as brutally honest as possible about it. No point everyone BS about how good it is. You make it thinking everything is great if that was the case, the ratings end up sucking & the show gets canned by the network. Personally I think largest majority of people speaking out is a good thing in the end because it raises issues that generally might not be addressed.

Although you say you want to change peoples opinions about the writing because it's getting better all the time. The problem I see with this is simply that is based solely on your own opinion. You are expressing yours that it's getting better all the time, while others say it's getting worse. It may infact be better, it may be worse than ever. Everybody has different things they like about a show, so one opinion here is no more relevant than another's. It comes down to taste in the end, you like it, others don't. Although I doubt you'll be able to change people's minds just like they won't be able to change yours about the declining standard of writing.

In the end, the main factor that tells how good a show is, is shown in the ratings. That's all that matters! If a show has falling ratings, then something is obviously very wrong. Ultimately the criticism falls back on the writers because they are the ones who get the big bucks to make the show happen & give it it's direction.

[MI_SG1_Fan]

good, better, best, it's all subjective. It's different to different people. one person's great is another's horrible.

You're darn right, LS! I've always maintained that while the first seven seasons were more lighthearted and fun, the past 3 have been more topical and reality-based (or at least as close to reality based as a science fiction series could be).

The Ori stroyline is one I find quite fascinating, in the same sense that I find any extremist religion fascinating. I personally see some *well hidden* parallels in SG-1 episodes to what's taking place in the world today. Maybe it's just me, but I think that's emininently more interesting than watching Replicators or what-have-you. Oh well...

Point of fact: I'd always been told that one wasn't a professional anything until one got paid for doing whatever it is? If I'm minsunderstanding, please, feel free to correct me. But I gotta agree that it's time for those who complain about the writing "put up or shut up", so to speak.

[ACharmedAsgard]

It's a case of you cant have one without the other. The promoters and the complainers, the right without the left, the good without the evil and the clean without the dirty....sadly lol

[Jackie]

You're darn right, LS! I've always maintained that while the first seven seasons were more lighthearted and fun, the past 3 have been more topical and reality-based (or at least as close to reality based as a science fiction series could be).

The Ori stroyline is one I find quite fascinating, in the same sense that I find any extremist religion fascinating. I personally see some *well hidden* parallels in SG-1 episodes to what's taking place in the world today. Maybe it's just me, but I think that's emininently more interesting than watching Replicators or what-have-you. Oh well...

Point of fact: I'd always been told that one wasn't a professional anything until one got paid for doing whatever it is? If I'm minsunderstanding, please, feel free to correct me. But I gotta agree that it's time for those who complain about the writing "put up or shut up", so to speak.

But that goes against free speech.

In fact, critics are everywhere. As long as the complaint is about the writting and not the writer...then whoever sees an issue in the work has every right to point it out and discuss it. As a writer...I would want the people to discuss my work. For the good and the bad.

[Jackie]

Naw, I just want to pass on a little bit of my wisdom and change a few minds. I get enough editing work with my own writing.

Lots of other writers have helped me; I want to pass that tradition along if I can.

The changing of minds is the more important one to me right now, though.

Just come to the anti season ten thread--an we will change your mind.

we complain about EVERYTHING there!

[ToasterOnFire]

Can't one complain about a unpalatable steak without being a cook themselves?

Can't one complain about a singer's lack of pitch without being a singer themselves?

Can't one complain about an off-balance brass section in an orchestra of without playing an instrument themselves?

I don't see how the above are any different than complaining about a poorly-written and executed episode even though the complainer has never written fiction or produced a TV show.

[Ripple in Space]

Can't one complain about a unpalatable steak without being a cook themselves?

Can't one complain about a singer's lack of pitch without being a singer themselves?

Can't one complain about an off-balance brass section in an orchestra of without playing an instrument themselves?

I don't see how the above are any different than complaining about a poorly-written and executed episode even though the complainer has never written fiction or produced a TV show.

I deleted a similar post that I wrote earlier, but since I'm not the only one....

ascendedancient42:
First of all, it seems to me that you have an arrogance about you because you fancy yourself a writer. Just because some of the rest of us aren't writers doesn't mean that we can't judge quality; especially in something where personal preference plays a part. Since you haven't even been published, I honestly don't see where your "expertise" allows your opinion to hold more weight than ours, and even if you were [published].....

I have been published (not fiction mind you), and I don't fancy myself a professional author; much-less do I believe my "taste" in SciFi is more refined than anyone else's, well Wraith Boy's, but then....

While some may go a little overboard on bashing TPTB, I do agree on a lot of the criticism. Since RDA left there has been a noticeable decline in quality. It's probably a combo of a lot of factors, but it just lack the quality that S2-4 had.

Aside from the space battles, everything has gone down hill. I think Mitchell is just a giant mistake. Since I don't follow Ben's work I'm not sure if the fault is on TPTB for writing a bland character, or Ben's lack of range, but you can't compare him to Jack, or even Sheppard.

It's quite apparent that the directing is holding back the core cast. Michael, Amanda and Chris have demonstrated fantastic range, yet in episodes like "Moebius" & "Bad Guys" they're being directed to go OTT. We've seen the actors do better, so I imagine the fault is on the directors.

Compare the quality of "Uninvited" with any other 100+ episode series.

[Skydiver]

'good' is relative.

I've written about 350 stargate stories and some fans think that the stories are great and true to the show, while others think that they're total crap and a waste of electrons.

And since it's impossible to please everyone all the time, it's also impossible to create something that's universally accepted.

Even 6 years ago, when a majority of the fandom enjoyed the show, they were only a majority. They were not all of it. There isn't a show inexistence that everyone loves and enjoys.