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  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant ARMS's Avatar
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    Default 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by G.B Shaw
    Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
    Martyrdom is the only way in which a man can become famous without ability.
    Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.
    You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
    Americans adore me and will go on adoring me until I say something nice about them.
    One man that has a mind and knows it can always beat ten men who haven't and don't.
    You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
    The liar's punishment is not in the least that he is not believed but that he cannot believe anyone else.
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  2. #2
    Colonel Admiral Mappalazarou's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Oh yeah, that's one way to get the kids back into education. Well that and EMA...
    I write articles/features/reviews for I'm With Geek.com now. Check out our stuff if you get a minute!


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  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant ARMS's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by mappalazarou View Post
    Oh yeah, that's one way to get the kids back into education. Well that and EMA...
    I couldn't live off EMA, so I dropped out and now I'm working in a microbiology lab 4 days a week, and going college Thursdays.

    There's more than one way into science..
    Quote Originally Posted by G.B Shaw
    Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
    Martyrdom is the only way in which a man can become famous without ability.
    Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.
    You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
    Americans adore me and will go on adoring me until I say something nice about them.
    One man that has a mind and knows it can always beat ten men who haven't and don't.
    You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
    The liar's punishment is not in the least that he is not believed but that he cannot believe anyone else.
    www.7-scales.co.uk
    http://twitter.com/7Scales

  4. #4
    Colonel Admiral Mappalazarou's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    ....true.
    I write articles/features/reviews for I'm With Geek.com now. Check out our stuff if you get a minute!


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  5. #5
    Wade Welles sueKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    So what about kids that try hard but don't do well at the sciences? Are they to get less money for not being as smart?

    Part 2 coming very soon!! (this is a fic btw, not the Fandemonium novel)

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant ARMS's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by sueKay View Post
    So what about kids that try hard but don't do well at the sciences? Are they to get less money for not being as smart?
    Science related jobs pay terribly in the early years, less brain related jobs don't have this problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by G.B Shaw
    Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
    Martyrdom is the only way in which a man can become famous without ability.
    Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.
    You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
    Americans adore me and will go on adoring me until I say something nice about them.
    One man that has a mind and knows it can always beat ten men who haven't and don't.
    You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
    The liar's punishment is not in the least that he is not believed but that he cannot believe anyone else.
    www.7-scales.co.uk
    http://twitter.com/7Scales

  7. #7
    Colonel Admiral Mappalazarou's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    ARMS has returned to us everyone! *the people pour out into the streets cheering* Harrah!
    I write articles/features/reviews for I'm With Geek.com now. Check out our stuff if you get a minute!


    Click on sig to check out my fanfic gallery too!

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Daedalus-304's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by ARMS View Post
    Science related jobs pay terribly in the early years, less brain related jobs don't have this problem.
    Not really, Engineering and other Science related jobs have some of the highest starting salaries. I'm doing Computer Science and it's expected starting salary is over 50,000 a year. I think the highest is Chemical Engineering with a expected starting salary at 55,000. Just for fun today I did a job search on this one website and typed in my major, and some jobs were offering 85,000 - 110,000 a year. This last year, I went to a computer science conference sponsored by Microsoft, Amazon, Google, ect and they said the country is desperate for more people in this field; only about half of the annual need graduates every year.

    The other majors such as liberal arts majors only have an expected starting salary at 30,000, and I have heard many stories that several of these people end up working at palaces like Starbucks after graduation.

  9. #9
    Major General
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    I think it's sad that money is such and issue, when it comes to science, people should be pursuing those jobs because that's what they want to do, not because they pay well.

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant the_dark_light's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    I blame "league tables" for this, I can imagine some schools encouraging students to take easier* subjects so that kids get higher grades and makes the schools look good.

    This is going to be a big problem because at Universities we're seeing closures and mergers of Physics departments. Computing (my field) has seen a progressive drop in numbers over the years. At Leeds, the Engineering departments are often under-subscribed even though they are reputable departments (all 5 or 5* in the last RAE assessment - 5* is highest, again clarification for anyone who isn't familiar with the US system)

    There are more kids studying Psychology at A-Level then Biology!

    Something MUST be done to stop this strange form of brain-drain

    *I say easier because for subjects like "film studies" a U (unclassified, lower than E - outright fail in the UK A-Level system (clarification for non Brits)) are unheard of (saw a chart of the previous years national results at the College I'm taking an evening class in) but Physics and Maths (I think maths, the chart is no longer there so I'm working from memory) have the highest fail rates. Surprise surprise they have the lowest number of enrollments.
    The drums, the drums, the never ending drumbeat! Open me you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!

  11. #11
    Major iLemon's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Our education system is ********, everybody learns in different ways, the system will never be perfect


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  12. #12
    First Lieutenant Daedalus-304's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by jenks View Post
    I think it's sad that money is such and issue, when it comes to science, people should be pursuing those jobs because that's what they want to do, not because they pay well.
    I think it is more of a combination of money and what they want to do. Many of the sciences are really hard, and why would someone want to put in all that work if they can't get a descent paying job afterwards. This is why I wouldn't want to do math: too hard of a major without a big enough reward at the end.

  13. #13
    Major xfkirsten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by jenks View Post
    I think it's sad that money is such and issue, when it comes to science, people should be pursuing those jobs because that's what they want to do, not because they pay well.
    Well-said!

    Speaking as a biology major myself, the thought of how much I might make is of absolutely no concern to me. My preferred field is marine mammal training (where I'm currently working as a volunteer)... starting pay there? You're looking at around $8/hr usually. And yet there's generally at least 50-100 applicants for every one position available. Why? Because it's what people want to do, regardless of the money.

    A job will take up the majority of your adult life - it should be something done for the love of it, not for the money, or the frustration and burnout will come very, very quickly.
    "Sometimes we reach what's realest by making believe..."
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  14. #14
    Wade Welles sueKay's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by the_dark_light
    I blame "league tables" for this, I can imagine some schools encouraging students to take easier* subjects so that kids get higher grades and makes the schools look good.
    My school did that

    Part 2 coming very soon!! (this is a fic btw, not the Fandemonium novel)

  15. #15
    Major xfkirsten's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    I think that's a big part of it, as is standardized testing. Here in WA, we have the WASL (Washington Assessment of Student Learning) test, taken in elementary, middle, and high school. While passing it isn't a requirement to graduate (or, at least it wasn't when I graduated), the scores that students at each school get are a big factor in determining budget for the school. So now, instead of a more general, well-rounded curriculum, teachers are being forced by administrators to teach their lessons based on the exams. Students no longer are being taught the usual information. They're only being taught what is necessary to pass the test. Subjects not covered on the exam are bring dropped like hot potatoes - especially the arts.

    I always did extremely well in school, so I kinda feel like a snob saying this, but the test was not that hard. And the sad thing is, a large chunk of students don't pass it. I think that speaks volumes about the state of our public schools when a test like that has such a low passing rate (the 2006 results shows 1 in 2 10th graders failed one or more portions of the test). It's pretty clear to me that the schools aren't doing their job.

    I also know that there's a lot of controversy as to the accuracy of the results from this exam, and to some extent, I agree with them. But I think the issues raised could not possibly account for the huge failure rate - I think it's a lot of schools and parents trying to point the blame at anyone but themselves.

    There's more to the problem of failing grades than a poorly-designed test. It's students who aren't really being motivated to learn, whether by their parents or by poor teaching. (And before anyone takes that as a dig at teachers, I think the problem lies not with them - for the most part - but with the administration, as I said above)
    "Sometimes we reach what's realest by making believe..."
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  16. #16
    First Lieutenant Daedalus-304's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    Quote Originally Posted by xfkirsten View Post
    I think that's a big part of it, as is standardized testing. Here in WA, we have the WASL (Washington Assessment of Student Learning) test, taken in elementary, middle, and high school. While passing it isn't a requirement to graduate (or, at least it wasn't when I graduated), the scores that students at each school get are a big factor in determining budget for the school. So now, instead of a more general, well-rounded curriculum, teachers are being forced by administrators to teach their lessons based on the exams. Students no longer are being taught the usual information. They're only being taught what is necessary to pass the test. Subjects not covered on the exam are bring dropped like hot potatoes - especially the arts.
    I didn't have to pass the WASL (but I did anyway) to graduate either, but I think it is a requirement now. Most of class time now is focused on having the students pass that test. Most of the time in 10th grade we most of our work was to prepare for it.

    Also for those not in Washington, the test requires you to write an essay to explain why you picked a certain answer, such as doing a math problem and doing a fully detailed explanation. Also the two writing sections took me 4 hours each to do.

  17. #17
    Major General
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    I watched a documentary that deals with this sort of problem, it's about a governing style that started in the UK & US. It basically says that all aspects of government and society can be controlled by giving people targets to meet, but infact, it just encourages people to find ways to gear the way they work to make up the numbers instead of doing their job more efficiently. Some of the ways that the police and doctors came up with to achieve the numbers were quite shocking.

  18. #18
    Second Lieutenant ARMS's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Pay students' to revive science

    We need scientists the money repays itself in the economy.

    I think the lack of people interested in science is due to the fact that most teachers, teach their students with cold textbook curiculum (sp?), only a few good teachers inspire. I wouldn't mind ending up teaching science after years to come of the subject, I've had a interest since I was very young.

    The future of learning (if not downloading into the brain), is personal.
    Pupils grouped by learning style and interest, after early years, with annual assesment.
    Quote Originally Posted by G.B Shaw
    Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
    Martyrdom is the only way in which a man can become famous without ability.
    Criminals do not die by the hands of the law. They die by the hands of other men.
    You'll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
    Americans adore me and will go on adoring me until I say something nice about them.
    One man that has a mind and knows it can always beat ten men who haven't and don't.
    You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"
    The liar's punishment is not in the least that he is not believed but that he cannot believe anyone else.
    www.7-scales.co.uk
    http://twitter.com/7Scales

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