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    Together We Stand (316)

    Stargate: Horizon - Season Three
    "Together We Stand"


    "Together We Stand"
    Ep: 3.16
    Release Date: March 29, 2007
    Story by Alex Rubit & Mike Coakley
    Teleplay by Alex Rubit


    Bad news hits close to home for Callen when he receives word that the Tenari Colony's capital city has been taken over Kih'Andari radicals.
    17
    Outstanding
    41.18%
    7
    Good
    41.18%
    7
    Fair
    5.88%
    1
    Poor
    5.88%
    1
    Terrible
    5.88%
    1
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

    #2
    Well, another Thursday, and another new episode. And this time we find ourselves right at the front lines of a brutal war.

    The episode will be up on the site later on, but for now you can download "Together We Stand" right here:

    http://uk.geocities.com/alex_stargat...r_we_stand.pdf

    This one's been in the making for quite a while, and I think we were all quite happy with how it turned out. But now we'd love to hear what you think of it. So be sure to post your thoughts after reading it.

    Enjoy!
    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

    Comment


      #3
      It started off slowly. The first two acts were rather... dull, to say the least. A few things really irritated me. Partircuarly, that when we were introduced to some of the new one-ep characters, their initial description included far more backstory than could possibly be revealed by just looking at them. Another thing was Ra'kos referring to the Kih'Andari as the K-heads. There are enough similarieis between Horizon and Deep Space Nine as it is, and for the very least, they had a reason to call the Cardassians spoonheads. But... K-heads? I just don't see that as being even remotely possible. Espescially when one considers that the Vorian and the Humans don't share a common writing system.

      Other than that, it was a pretty decent episode. Kinda sad (the contents ofthe episode were). Not the be-all end-all episode it was hyped up to be. Makes me think that the Kih'Andari problem would have solved itself by now - this episode paints a picture of them all being suicide bombers, and I can't imagine that a whole army of suicide bombers would function very efficiently. The destruction of the Valiant rang too familiarly of the destruction of the Prometheus (in concept, not in execution).

      Saving Private Ma'kin probably could have been better. The "horrors of war" mantra is old now.

      ***

      Comment


        #4
        so after the scene with adams and Sato did they make it off will it be revealed in the season finale or any episode coming up?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia View Post
          quote]A few things really irritated me. Partircuarly, that when we were introduced to some of the new one-ep characters, their initial description included far more backstory than could possibly be revealed by just looking at them.
          No one said that you can only include what you see by looking at them. Introducing characters like this in a script isn't something that I've invented, unfortunately. It's quite comon in some cases actually. These episodes are written in the standard industry format, so I guess it's a problem with the industry, then.

          Another thing was Ra'kos referring to the Kih'Andari as the K-heads. There are enough similarieis between Horizon and Deep Space Nine as it is, and for the very least, they had a reason to call the Cardassians spoonheads. But... K-heads? I just don't see that as being even remotely possible. Espescially when one considers that the Vorian and the Humans don't share a common writing system.
          That's a slang term, and it's something that's happened a lot during World War Two. Not any different than the "nicknames" Americans gave the Germans or Japanese.

          So Vorians haven't got the same writing system. But they all speak perfectly english. Seems something here doesn't quite make sense.

          Other than that, it was a pretty decent episode. Kinda sad (the contents ofthe episode were). Not the be-all end-all episode it was hyped up to be. Makes me think that the Kih'Andari problem would have solved itself by now - this episode paints a picture of them all being suicide bombers, and I can't imagine that a whole army of suicide bombers would function very efficiently. The destruction of the Valiant rang too familiarly of the destruction of the Prometheus (in concept, not in execution).
          Well, in that case we could never destroy a ship, because the Prometheus was destroyed on SG-1. I find that a little ridiculous. As much as I love both SG-1 and Atlantis, they have little to no influnce on what we're doing over here.

          Regarding the suicide bombers, you've missunderstood something there. I think the episode makes it very clear that these are Kih'Andari RADICALS. They have no involvement with the Kih'Andari military forces or the Kih'Andari Council. I think the dialogue made that very clear when Callen explained that to Zach.

          And you think the Kih'Andari problem would have solved itself by now? Well, let's just say... that's just not the way it works. I could name several real world examples to demonstrate that to you.

          Saving Private Ma'kin probably could have been better. The "horrors of war" mantra is old now.

          ***
          Funny that you should say that. "Saving Private Callen" was the working title for this episode. And if that's what you think about the whole war thing, I have to say that's kinda sad really. It's a topic that will always be compelling, because it's always happened throughout history, and the way it looks, it'll continue to always happen. Nothing wrong with doing a story that deals with that.

          Sometimes I really do wonder why you actually waste your time reading this series in the first place. If everyone agreed with your views on nearly every episode (some exeptions), it would be a pretty crappy show definitely.

          I will say that no one has "hyped up" this episode. I can only speak for myself when I say it's one of my favorites out of the ones I've written, and I'm pretty proud of it for various reasons. But by all means, you don't have to agree with that. It's definitely not an "easy" episode to read. On the contrary, it's pretty intense and powerful, and the ending is everything but happy. Which was fully intentional, of course.
          Last edited by Alex Rubit; 29 March 2007, 11:44 PM.
          Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
            so after the scene with adams and Sato did they make it off will it be revealed in the season finale or any episode coming up?
            They both got out in time.
            Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

            Comment


              #7
              About the Prometheus comparison, as I've said, in concept - the series' main ship goes down on account of an assault by religious radicals in orbit above a planet that it had gone to for the intent of making a rescue mission. Granted, some of the circumstances were different, but I'd really have rathered it be destroyed in some more original way, if it had to be destroyed at all.

              I read because, to be perfectly honest with you, it used to be a lot better than I think it's been as of late. I'm kinda hoping that it'll at some point or another be as good as it used to be. But overall, the series is quite flawed at the moment. Its characters are extremely underdeveloped, and the stories that it tells aren't quite as complex as they used to be. It's all very straightforward now. There's hardly any intrigue. The only plot thread of interest to me at this point is exactly what the Sentinels and the Nebulan are trying to achieve.

              As for me being weary about this 'horrors of war' thing... Put simply, it's boring, because I have almost no emotional investment in the characters (because, as I've said, they're underdeveloped). I have more emotional investment in some of the one-ep chars that you've killed off than I do in the main cast. And on top of that, the 'horrors of war' thing feels a little old. It's been done before and it's been done better.

              What I want from Horizon is a return to science fiction or fantasy. I'd like to watch (or read, as the case may be) a show about exploration, rather than one that's so war-centric.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia View Post
                About the Prometheus comparison, as I've said, in concept - the series' main ship goes down on account of an assault by religious radicals in orbit above a planet that it had gone to for the intent of making a rescue mission. Granted, some of the circumstances were different, but I'd really have rathered it be destroyed in some more original way, if it had to be destroyed at all.
                I hadn't even thought of that parallel. Probably because I've only seen "Ethon" once (when it aired), and don't remember too many details. It's up next, though, as I'm working my way through Season Nine on DVD -- so I'm looking forward to that, as from what I recall it was a great episode.

                I read because, to be perfectly honest with you, it used to be a lot better than I think it's been as of late. I'm kinda hoping that it'll at some point or another be as good as it used to be. But overall, the series is quite flawed at the moment. Its characters are extremely underdeveloped, and the stories that it tells aren't quite as complex as they used to be. It's all very straightforward now. There's hardly any intrigue. The only plot thread of interest to me at this point is exactly what the Sentinels and the Nebulan are trying to achieve.
                Most of these characters are pretty well developed. And I haven't got the time to get into this whole debate yet again. According to you character development seems to always have to include some kind of moral and ethical dilemma, which is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Every episode over the past couple of weeks has had it's fair share of character development, whether you can see that or not.

                What I want from Horizon is a return to science fiction or fantasy. I'd like to watch (or read, as the case may be) a show about exploration, rather than one that's so war-centric.
                I would hardly describe it as "war centric" because of one episode. Oddly, back when the season started the complaint was that the war felt like it was too much in the background -- always something new to complain about, I guess.
                Last edited by Alex Rubit; 29 March 2007, 11:46 PM.
                Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Alex Rubit View Post
                  Well, that just proves it. You haven't got a clue what character development actually is. Couldn't blame you, though. Because when I was your age, I had no clue about what is and what isn't proper character development, to be honest.

                  Most of these characters are pretty well developed. And I haven't got the time to get into this whole debate yet again. According to you character development seems to always have to include some kind of moral and ethical dilemma, which is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Every episode over the past couple of weeks has had it's fair share of character development, whether you can see that or not.
                  Character development doesn't always entail moral or ethical conflict, although I do find it to be much more interesting when that is the case. For me, characters are developed when they actually seem like they could be real people. Horizon's characters, I have no idea. Grant, he's a cut-out leader. Where's the depth to him? When he has those occasional flashes of frustration, that's something human. That's character development, fleshing him out as a person. For Sivea, you've poured loads of backstory into her... but that's not development! Development can stem from backstory, sure, but I honestly just don't - can't - see Sivea as being a real person. And Christine. She not only has no personality, she's as of late served almost no purpose. The most important thing she's done all season long was drop a piece of paper somewhere and serve as a mouthpiece for that the Ancients thought the Nebulan were Gods. The best developed character on Horizon is Callen, because while he may not have a thorough backstory that tracks his life from his childhood, he's an actual person! He's consistently demonstrated emotion and drive. He's got his conviction, and it defines him; it makes him as close to real as a character can be.


                  No one's forcing you to read it.

                  But then again, I do always quite look forward to your posts about how bad the episode has been. It always makes my day. Can't wait to see how bad the final seven will turn out to be; that is, if you'll read them. Not trying to be sarcastic, I'm really looking forward to seeing what you don't like about them once they air.
                  Then perhaps for your sake as well as my own I shouldn't say anything else.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia View Post
                    Character development doesn't always entail moral or ethical conflict, although I do find it to be much more interesting when that is the case. For me, characters are developed when they actually seem like they could be real people. Horizon's characters, I have no idea. Grant, he's a cut-out leader. Where's the depth to him? When he has those occasional flashes of frustration, that's something human. That's character development, fleshing him out as a person. For Sivea, you've poured loads of backstory into her... but that's not development! Development can stem from backstory, sure, but I honestly just don't - can't - see Sivea as being a real person. And Christine. She not only has no personality, she's as of late served almost no purpose. The most important thing she's done all season long was drop a piece of paper somewhere and serve as a mouthpiece for that the Ancients thought the Nebulan were Gods. The best developed character on Horizon is Callen, because while he may not have a thorough backstory that tracks his life from his childhood, he's an actual person! He's consistently demonstrated emotion and drive. He's got his conviction, and it defines him; it makes him as close to real as a character can be.
                    They all have their own personalities, and they all feel like real people to us.

                    Then perhaps for your sake as well as my own I shouldn't say anything else.
                    Please, feel free to let us know what you don't like. It's always interesting to see. And I wouldn't want anyone to not speak up because of me.
                    Last edited by Alex Rubit; 29 March 2007, 10:06 PM.
                    Click on banner to visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Here I was coming to talk about how much I liked the episode. But now, I've been distracted. I do agree about the characters though, then again, I think the same of Destiny's at the moment. I've always thought Horizon's cast was too large because it means your stories are stretched thin trying to develop everyone. And personally, I don't think it works which is why I want you to top off characters. I've said it before somewhere that I think Chris isn't being used alot letter. We've got Tom and Yasuf who are pretty similar to personality and role so we could lose on of them.

                      I do agree about Callen though. He's the best character on the show. I can really hear his voice and see him as a person. Lenori too, he has a distinct voice and personality than I can always see.

                      As for it being too war centric, no. I don't think we've seen enough war-arcs on Stargate at all, and I'm finally glad we're getting there from it being in the background at the start of the season.

                      So anyway, the episode. Loved it. Loved the nice dark tones of it and the new characters were well written and easy to like. I found myself being really disappointed when they died. They had really distinct voices and personalities that I would have loved to have seen more of.

                      Lovely little Callen piece. I sure hope we get some spill-over in the next episode. I mean, Callen did effectively condemn a lot of people to death - aboard the Valiant - by going after his son.

                      And the Valiant! Wasn't expecting that but it made sense, what with you properly going to introduce a new ship with Asgard gadgetry. Anyway, lovely episode. And for the first time in a while, I am caught up!
                      sigpic
                      Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My first time commenting on an episode since last year. I finally caught up.

                        I have to say that, for lack of a better word, I don't care for the events of this Episode. I didn't sleep from reading it if it makes it feel better.

                        The only thing connecting this with the "show" is Callen's son. No round spinning thing, Earth's only interest is to find a peaceful end to the conflict (in wich this event has nothing to do with), and I would of liked some more Father son moments. I counted 2 minor moments at the end and a B+ moment when Callen and his son met.

                        Wouldn't Grant and his men have Tok'ra isotopes in order to hide from the enemy's sensors?
                        Speaking of witch, Grant seemed to have been almost like a ghost.

                        Overall it didn't feel like Stargate. It felt more like, um...something else. I did get some entertainment from it. and on its own away from the show it does display good writing skills and would make for a good Sci Fi war movie

                        I give it a B- for effort.
                        [An alarm is sounding. Harriman checks his watch as he and Siler stand, facing Ba'al's hologram.]
                        HARRIMAN
                        I'm sure he'll be here any second now.
                        [Ba'al is obviously impatient.]
                        HARRIMAN
                        So, um…

                        Take our ships, take our toys, take our awesome alien tech... I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take Stargate from me!

                        Special Thanks to Elles sence this is a ripof of her great sig.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by SG-25CSAR View Post

                          Overall it didn't feel like Stargate. It felt more like, um...something else.
                          I agree it didn't feel like a normal stargate episode however that is not always a bad thing as long as it is entertaining. It keeps thing form geting repeative and I found this episode very entertaining. I really liked this episode.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I liked it, in particular the ending. To me it felt a little like SG1's Heroes Part 2.
                            I also agree with the opinion that this ep is not a traditional Stargate episode. Not a bad thing from time to time.

                            I wonder if the destruction of the X-04 and the loss of personel will impact somehow on Grant, that is, risking (and loosing) equipment and personel for the sake of a few, and considering that the mission was not officially sanctioned by Earth nor Vorian governments.

                            ***

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jmm View Post
                              I liked it, in particular the ending. To me it felt a little like SG1's Heroes Part 2.
                              I also agree with the opinion that this ep is not a traditional Stargate episode. Not a bad thing from time to time.

                              I wonder if the destruction of the X-04 and the loss of personel will impact somehow on Grant, that is, risking (and loosing) equipment and personel for the sake of a few, and considering that the mission was not officially sanctioned by Earth nor Vorian governments.

                              ***
                              I have a feeling that Grant will get a mouth full once Earth hears about this.
                              [An alarm is sounding. Harriman checks his watch as he and Siler stand, facing Ba'al's hologram.]
                              HARRIMAN
                              I'm sure he'll be here any second now.
                              [Ba'al is obviously impatient.]
                              HARRIMAN
                              So, um…

                              Take our ships, take our toys, take our awesome alien tech... I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take Stargate from me!

                              Special Thanks to Elles sence this is a ripof of her great sig.

                              Comment

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