Together We Stand (316)

[knowles2]

I outsounding episode, seemed stargate horizon copying a lot of deep space nine episode, which this one copies borrow story from two of them, but that not a bad thing as they were amound my favorites.

The thing about this episode was some of it just did not link together.

For instant Zach and callen exchange about them standing and fighting. Could of had a bit more meaning to the out come, instead it was just left hanging with no conclusion.

The religous aspect of the episode, completly wasted for me, this I believe could added depth to.

killing of the the tro'vel which I think was mistake, instead I would love of kept him around at the end of the episode, as a symbol of, personally Ra'ros would been the one to dye, with it being tro'vel to witness it.

To me I think some of the subplot arguments and things mention through out the episode the previous episode.

Zach being their did not make much sense overall to the storyline,. It would made more sense if say the command council and even earth was putting pressure on horizon to show results, which could then lead callen and grant using zach skills to bring the public on side of the mission, and show earth and vorian troops working side by side.
And perhaps then having the valiant destruction leading Earth to actually joining the war directly, committing troops to the war directly and ships.

This would of made the episode fill more whole to me instead of it bit space part with nothing connecting togeather, and gave more overall meaning to the episode overall.

A other thing is Zach saying about his golf war experience it would of been interesting to hear more of it and perhap have it mention in the callen during their little exchange.


I love it how you show us them actually fighting on the front line, which is good and need to be shown and mention more often.

[Alex Rubit]

Thanks for commenting on the episode.

I outsounding episode, seemed stargate horizon copying a lot of deep space nine episode, which this one copies borrow story from two of them, but that not a bad thing as they were amound my favorites.

Hmm. I'd be curious to see which two DS9 episodes you're talking about. I can think of one that has a similiar feel to it, but a much different story. That being "The Siege of AR-558". It's similiar in style and tone, in that it's about a war upfront, and it features a big battle in Act Five. But the story is a very different one. I agree that there's parallels, though.

Other than that, I can't think of any episode that would be like this one. So let me know which one you mean.

For instant Zach and callen exchange about them standing and fighting. Could of had a bit more meaning to the out come, instead it was just left hanging with no conclusion.

Zach's little monologue in the end serves as kind of a conclusion to the argument that he and Callen had, in that Zach comes to realize that there's nothing honorable about war (as he had told Callen), but that that's what makes those soldiers who fight in wars even more noble and honorable. Or heroes, as he says.

The religous aspect of the episode, completly wasted for me, this I believe could added depth to.

We'll be seeing more of this down the road. This introduces a couple of new elements of Vorian religion, which will become an ongoing plotline of the show.

killing of the the tro'vel which I think was mistake, instead I would love of kept him around at the end of the episode, as a symbol of, personally Ra'ros would been the one to dye, with it being tro'vel to witness it.

The fact that you would have loved to have him around in the end means that killing him off achieved its effect. As an audience member you should feel that it was a loss, and you should find yourself thinking: "I wish he wouldn't have died."

Zach being their did not make much sense overall to the storyline,. It would made more sense if say the command council and even earth was putting pressure on horizon to show results, which could then lead callen and grant using zach skills to bring the public on side of the mission, and show earth and vorian troops working side by side.

Zach did mention his reasons for wanting to come along. Did he need to be there? Absolutely not. It was his choice.

And perhaps then having the valiant destruction leading Earth to actually joining the war directly, committing troops to the war directly and ships.

More on the subject of Earth being willing to commit people and/or ships to the war in "So Near the Darkness and the Night." So, stay tuned.

A other thing is Zach saying about his golf war experience it would of been interesting to hear more of it and perhap have it mention in the callen during their little exchange.

Actually, I think this is an example for little character details getting forgotten every now and then, which I think just comes with the format. It's hard to remember details from episodes you may have read two years ago.

Zach's experience in the Gulf War was first established all the way back in "A Time To Rise," and was part of the reason for why he was chosen to be on Horizon. So this wasn't anything new, but much rather just a mention of an esablished backstory for the character.

But I agree, it would be very interesting to hear more about that. Maybe we will one day.

I love it how you show us them actually fighting on the front line, which is good and need to be shown and mention more often.

More huge battles coming up later this season.

[knowles2]

The two episodes it reminded me of was the

Nor The Battle To The Strong

When jake is cought in between the fighting between the federation and the Klingon empire. And cisco has to go and rescue him, which the seen of callen on the valiant reminded me of captain cisco on the defiant bridge, pasting up and down, a minor bit, and may be not really wealth noting.

And The Siege Of AR-558, their were several elements, adapting the bombs, the same as they adaptings the mines, sought of similar story idea.

Also the entire fifth scene was virtually the same, and when reading the script, I just had that entire DS9 fight scene come straight back into my head.

Neither of these are exactly a like, story wise but they both share elements, which is why I bought them up, it not a bad things to use these elements , especially when they from one of my favourite tv series.

[Alex Rubit]

The two episodes it reminded me of was the

Nor The Battle To The Strong

When jake is cought in between the fighting between the federation and the Klingon empire. And cisco has to go and rescue him, which the seen of callen on the valiant reminded me of captain cisco on the defiant bridge, pasting up and down, a minor bit, and may be not really wealth noting.

I hadn't even thought of that parallel actually. Even though I did figure that's the episode you might be talking about. That's a coincidence, though. Callen's and Sisko's reactions is probably how any concerned father would react to a situation like this.

And The Siege Of AR-558, their were several elements, adapting the bombs, the same as they adaptings the mines, sought of similar story idea.

Also the entire fifth scene was virtually the same, and when reading the script, I just had that entire DS9 fight scene come straight back into my head.

The battle in Act Five was somewhat inspired by the one in the DS9 episode, in terms of how it's a long and detailed sequence of a brutal slaughter basically. And that it has a strong emotional impact.

There were two influences I had when writing this episode. The first being the DS9 episode in terms of tone, style and hopefully emotional impact. The second influence (to a certain degree) would be the movie Saving Private Ryan. During production on this episode we even used to refer to it as "Saving Private Callen." And because of that, there's a reference to the movie hidden in this episode. I wonder who could find it. A little hint: it has to do with two names that are mentioned by Grant. Those names are the names of two characters in Saving Private Ryan.

Neither of these are exactly a like, story wise but they both share elements, which is why I bought them up, it not a bad things to use these elements , especially when they from one of my favourite tv series.

DS9 is also one of my favorite shows. But I'd never intentionally try to copy any of it. It's been a great influence, though, in terms of making the show character driven. I think DS9 and Horizon are similiar in that regard. But in terms of stories, there's no specific influence. We just try and come up with 24 entertaining stories a year; no different than if we were on TV.

[Alchemist]

For those who said that this didn't have enough 'Stargate' in it, think of how many non-scifi episodes there were about Teal'c's family in SG-1.

The Valiant was dispatched to the planet because it was the closest ship. It was requested by the Vorian High Council.

Secondly, how much character development has the Atlantis writers given Ronin? He has a backstory, but he is really a two dimensional character. Same goes for Jack in the first few seasons of SG-1.
Character development takes time, and IMHO runs better when it is done as part of an existing storyline, rather than dedicating an entire episode to it.

---------

Anyway. This was a good episode. I think that this will be the last of the annoying Zach eps.
The introduction of Vorian religion themes was interesting, and I assume that we haven't seen it much up to this point is some regulations about religious artefacts on military personel.

[jelgate]

Jelgate’s Two Cents

Excuse a minute while I go cry for the destruction of the Valiant. Why am I all of sudden remembered of Ethon. I bet Horizon will have a new ship in a few more episodes. Anyway I thought it was heroic on how the Valiant crew risked there lives. I understand that there wasn’t time, but I wish we had seen a few scenes of Sato and his crew in escape pods. Wouldn’t the ISGC frown on Grant taking the ship into a conflict that is none of our business. This was an enjoyable episode that really showed the horrors that the civil war is having on the Vorian people and just how far the Kir’Adhari. I realize that most Kir’Adhari would not resort to suicide tactics, but it shows just how far some radicals will go for their beliefs. And now, on to the characters.?* This was clearly a Callen episode that showed how much how much cared about his son. I feel he was too nice to Zach when he threaten Callen. I would have punched Zach in the nose. I have a question for the writer of this episode. Why let Zach beam down to the planet in the first place. Is it wise to send a civilian down to the front lines? I always thought the Vorians worshipped the Ancients not the Nebulans. The three Vorian solders showed the different personalities you can have a war. One person wants to kill as much as possible, the other clings to her beliefs, and the last has that face of innocence. Is there a particular reason why you didn’t want the rest of the cast to appear on this episode?

[SierraGulf1]

If I recall, the reason the rest of the cast wasn't included was because it would be far too different to juggle the characters. We thought Lenori was in need of development and Zach needed a more serious role, whereas Grant is a military man and Callen was driven by the uncertain fate of Ma'kin.

[jelgate]

If I recall, the reason the rest of the cast wasn't included was because it would be far too different to juggle the characters.?* We thought Lenori was in need of development and Zach needed a more serious role, whereas Grant is a military man and Callen was driven by the uncertain fate of Ma'kin.

Yay, someone answered. That all makes sense, thank you for answers. Do you think I can catch up by the time you guys end hitasus.

[SierraGulf1]

The way you're gunning through it, definitely.

The hiatus ends in February, so there's still quite a bit of time.

[Elite Anubis Guard]

I really did like a lot of the new characters in this episode. They felt so real and right and it all paid off during the conclusions. I especially liked the Lenori/Tro'vel relationship that went on. Was fantastic.

I don't know why they had to turn bombs into grenades when they still only used them as C4 or something. Perhaps put proximity sensors on them or something. That didn't really make much sense to me.

As I remember there isn't much fall out from the decisions made by Callen or Grant in this, I'm kinda disappointed. It wasn't like it was an official request from the Command Council, the pair just decided to up and go and got the ship destroyed and so many lives lost...all for Callen's son. I would have preferred to have seen more fallout, emotionally as well, with Callen.

But it was nice to see the war come to the foreground. It's been in the back so much this season, it was a great episode that through it in your face. Rather intense at times. So good episode.