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    SG-1-Use of Myth and Culture Thread

    As there are existing threads for the scientific and technological aspects of the show, I thought I'd start something that concerns the side of the show that used ancient (that's 'us' ancient!) myths, history, literature and language. Do those who have no knowledge of the classical world find it interesting, entertaining and realistic? As someone who is doing a BA on the subject, I've usually found it to be mostly reasonably well-researched and entertaining, so I would also like to see what other people who either study the subject or have a serious interest think as well-have you ever had a serious 'WTF?!' moment (like the 'Cerberus' thing in 'Forsaken')? If I do an MA in Classical Reception, this might also turn out to be research...
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    #2
    I dont have a problem like you said we the accuracy of the the reserach but its use in realation to the myths
    Anubis and osiris for instance why would osiris take orders from anubis as osiris took anubis place as lord of the underworld and anubis was downgraded to god of mummification
    Another thing that got me in the show was the use of cronus rather zeus his son in mythology.Zeus banished is father after cronus tried to kill zeus and his siblings
    Third is in relation to the asgard why was thor supreme commander of the asgard fleet surely odin should have been there leader or at least one of the asgard
    Nearly forgot this why was osiris protrayed as a woman surely they should have used isis as they found the isis jar with the osiris jar
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      #3
      Hm, I think Thor as supreme commander is not that bad. I liked the Beliskner as his ship. My guess about Odin: he's highest member in the Asgard High Counsil.

      About Osiris: It was stated in the show that in history, Osiris had a male host. But when he was released from his jar, he only had the opportunity to take Sarah as a host. And apparantly, he liked this new "vessel".

      Cronos could have been Zeus, but maybe Zeus wasn't interested in our side of the galaxy anymore. I would've liked some more Greek gods among the Goa'ulds we've come to see.

      When thinking over mythologie, I kind of miss that on SG-A. But then again, it's rather strange to set our own mythologies in an other galaxy.

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        #4
        on osiris why didnt the shows creater just use isis instead and surely evn if zeus wasnt intrested in our side of the galaxy he still should have been a system
        Odin I just would have liked to have seen
        I do agree that more greek and roman gods should have been in the series
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          #5
          well..the majority of roman gods, and greek gods are based one arlier incarnations of gods..maybe they just wanted to keep it more simple and not ahve vast parliamentary empires because it wud of been too confusing and too large an enemy for earth to handle

          and thus too unbelieveable

          =]

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            #6
            well..the majority of roman gods, and greek gods are based one arlier incarnations of gods..
            Really they are not based on another pantheon of dieties. Some of them morphed into other things w/ waves of invasions especially in anceint Greece.

            oh boy the classics minor just in me just reared it's ugly head
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              #7
              Originally posted by The Great Lord Baal View Post
              on osiris why didnt the shows creater just use isis instead and surely evn if zeus wasnt intrested in our side of the galaxy he still should have been a system
              Odin I just would have liked to have seen
              I do agree that more greek and roman gods should have been in the series
              Isis was a goddess who was very associated with her husband-the ultimate loyal wife. As such she was also a goddess associated with fertility- something that had been done before, in the shape of Hathor. So by putting a symbiote who had previously had a male host into a female host they confounded audience expectation, as well as creating a Goa'uld who was more of a 'free agent' so to speak-no 'overlord' husband, etc-free to ally themselves with Anubis. It also created an interesting sense of androgyny- the actress was tall and slender and the costumes were feminine but not so 'alien priestess'
              But sometimes choosing to diverge is important, I think. Because many myths are designed to explain, they can differ depending on the message that the teller wants to deliver- it would be like condemning most of Greek tragedy for changing the myths in order to present parallels or contrasts with current Athenian politics and society. Also, myths differ from place to place, time to time. In the show, Earth has been isolated for thousands of years. Things change. Also, the 'gods' themselves would put a slant on some of the stories, and some of the stories would have been developed way, way after the original event. So, in that sense, keeping it 'unrealistic' is actually really realistic in terms of depicting human narrative development.
              What interests me as well is whether people think they were original, or just sticking to the 'Cleopatra cliches'. Or putting in things which made no sense at all ('Cerberus' as relating to the Celtic culture?!).
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                #8
                Originally posted by Iffy View Post
                Really they are not based on another pantheon of dieties. Some of them morphed into other things w/ waves of invasions especially in anceint Greece.

                oh boy the classics minor just in me just reared it's ugly head
                Give into it...Classicists rule!
                Ahem.

                The ancient world took abstract things- whether they be forces of nature, emotions, states of being, whatever- and gave them anthropomorphic shapes, usually. This meant that each country, hell, each state had individual emphasis, but when they came into contact with other cultures they easily took other deities on. And the Roman stuff is worse, because they originally believed in nature spirit-types (into rock/tree/river gods) and superimposed Greek gods onto them (that's why in Roman mythology Venus is god of sex and love, but also of fertility regarding crops-there was serious divine role crossover). It gets quite complex. Whereas the Egyptian culture was a little more isolated (though not as much as you would have been led to believe, probably). Also, Egypt is seen a mystic, exotic and ancient-outside of our own culture and therefore more interesting. Usually. There is also the association with slavery, which is Biblical in origin (not that the Persians/Greeks/Romans didn't keep hordes of slaves from conquest, mind).
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                  #9
                  Ceres would have been much more associated w/ crop fertility than Venus, in Rome. Roman mythology looks so superficial and Greek until you start digging. What is under the veneer is somemuch more interesting.



                  I've always thought the Sumerian pantheon was much more Go'ould like. All those humans got too noisy and that was it, they got rid of them and started over.
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Iffy View Post
                    Ceres would have been much more associated w/ crop fertility than Venus, in Rome. Roman mythology looks so superficial and Greek until you start digging. What is under the veneer is somemuch more interesting.



                    I've always thought the Sumerian pantheon was much more Go'ould like. All those humans got too noisy and that was it, they got rid of them and started over.
                    Oh, of course. Something as important as that always has a central figure. But its interesting how the original role of the Venus figure might have differed slightly from the Greek equivalent. And the Romans totally associated crop fertility and human fertility methinks- which makes sense, as one benefits the other- feeding the nation, the nation tending the earth (the Romans liked to pretend that they were very traditional and rustic ). And if you're ever been to Pompeii, you'll see how that preoccupation spilled out onto the streets-brothels were very distinctively signposted And yes, the Romans were not as Greek as people think- they respected Greek culture, but saw them as effeminate and affected- you could be too 'Greek', in their eyes. What I've never looked into was the Etruscan deal-my trips to Rome have been too short to take in the museum there. And my interest is really in 5th c Athens.
                    Anyway.
                    I know very little about the Sumerians- I could never fully get into the cultures in that part of the world in the earlier periods. Though the myth can be fun, as you're already pointed out. You can imagine a Goa'uld of them doing it in a fit of temper and then someone cautiously pointing out that now they have no-one to run scented baths for them...
                    On the topic of Near-Eastern gods, what did you think of the 'Fire and Water' ep, if you cast your mind way back to season one? With the Babylonian element portrayed so differently and of course...cuniform. Which is read by probably read by less than a hundred people across the world (though Daniel did admit that it was incrediably difficult)
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                      #11
                      The cerberus comment I think was more to do with dogs I think just a bit of an error hears a link

                      http://www.clannada.org/theology_sacralkingship.php
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Great Lord Baal View Post
                        The cerberus comment I think was more to do with dogs I think just a bit of an error hears a link

                        http://www.clannada.org/theology_sacralkingship.php
                        If I remember correctly:
                        The Scots named their prison transport ship 'Cerberus'. This was either a reference to the role of Cerberus as a guard of the Underworld, or someone showing off their classical background. It's Greek, not Celtic. So, 'for the meaning to stay the same', the Celts must have been away of Greek mythology and be using it in the context of prison transport at the time that people were taken off Earth- which they couldn't have because a lot people in the Med didn't even believe that Britain existed until Caesar invaded in the 1st century BC. And prison transportation of that kind didn't even start until circa the seventeenth century- as shown in the illustration of the of ship that Jonas displayed-its clearly post-sixteenth century. I don't mind theory, but that was just making stuff up in order to give them a good reason for why Jonas had cottoned on and also to have the Teal'c line at the end sound almost philosophical. It amused me
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by resurgamlaura View Post
                          Oh, of course. Something as important as that always has a central figure. But its interesting how the original role of the Venus figure might have differed slightly from the Greek equivalent. And the Romans totally associated crop fertility and human fertility methinks- which makes sense, as one benefits the other- feeding the nation, the nation tending the earth (the Romans liked to pretend that they were very traditional and rustic ).
                          nothing like a little bit of good old Roman traditio Rome has the whole concept of hearth and home in the lares et penateswhich is embodied in Vesta and Ceres. Where I think Aphrodite is more a symbol of the ideal of beauty the Greeks really adored.


                          And yes, the Romans were not as Greek as people think- they respected Greek culture, but saw them as effeminate and affected- you could be too 'Greek', in their eyes.
                          well summed up




                          Anyway.
                          I know very little about the Sumerians- I could never fully get into the cultures in that part of the world in the earlier periods. Though the myth can be fun, as you're already pointed out. You can imagine a Goa'uld of them doing it in a fit of temper and then someone cautiously pointing out that now they have no-one to run scented baths for them...
                          On the topic of Near-Eastern gods, what did you think of the 'Fire and Water' ep, if you cast your mind way back to season one? With the Babylonian element portrayed so differently and of course...cuniform. Which is read by probably read by less than a hundred people across the world (though Daniel did admit that it was incrediably difficult)


                          Sumerian is the best
                          I know I saw it as I was watching every Saturaday but all I have is a vague memory. I'm sure I was yelling at the tv

                          hmmmm maybe I need to buy season one next
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Iffy View Post
                            nothing like a little bit of good old Roman traditio Rome has the whole concept of hearth and home in the lares et penateswhich is embodied in Vesta and Ceres. Where I think Aphrodite is more a symbol of the ideal of beauty the Greeks really adored.




                            well summed up








                            Sumerian is the best
                            I know I saw it as I was watching every Saturaday but all I have is a vague memory. I'm sure I was yelling at the tv

                            hmmmm maybe I need to buy season one next
                            What was realistic was how long it took him to translate it. I'm going a Latin Paleography course at the mo (deciphering Latin texts) and its no walk in the park. Then take divergence from the original Earth languages into account-ouch. But I don't expect it to be hyper-realistic and Daniel gives the impression of skim reading and picking out words anyway so it isn't too bad. Belief is only slightly suspended
                            Buy it...buy it...
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                              #15
                              its served as a good solid base for the show, i have wondered why they didnt really touch on the Greek or Roman gods (rival Goa'uld nations perhaps?) would have been nice if they had explored that.
                              i dont like the recent inclusion of the Arthurian legends it feels too tacked on but i know as much about them as i do about the Egyptian gods etc (which isnt much )so i dont feel theyve done them a diservice its just pushing the show too far into the realm of fantasy i.e. the dragon
                              and there is the mythical Lemuria another civilisation around the same time as Atlantis would be good to see if they ever put that in the spinoff show.
                              it provides an almost limitless inspiration for the series.
                              To the Mandatorium!!!!!

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