Is Atlantis jumping in shark-infested waters? (spoilers for everything)

[Mister Oragahn]

So... How 'bout the rest of you?

Well, I've been criticizing SGA a lot these last two years.

While they were many defaults in the first season, it still was a good one, full of potential and DVD worthy.

The second one started quite well, they even gave something to RSF and his Ford character, so they were quite correcting one of the issues of the former season. But then... crap hit the fan.

First, it started with Runner. It was impossible for me to forget the out of universe reason why Ronon was introduced.
Now, I've *****ed enough about Ronon, I won't waste more saliva on this "character".

Then came the death blow. Duet. Or how a new spin off started.

Stargate: Circus

From there, McKay was overdone, given too much forced jokes. The whole tone of the episode was just ********.
The point was not to make an episode with a bit of humour in it.
The point was to make a funay episode. Period.

Gladly, we didn't get that kind of crap in S1. I wonder why they thought it was necessary to refrain themselves from delivering such an episode for S1, but taking the oportunity to do it for S2.

Then started a long chain of boring plots and most stories centered around the secret plot device of the week, with McKay's techwank saving the day.

The enemies started to act as even bigger morons than ever.

Some of the characters lost what actually made them credible (Duet for McKay, The Hive for Sheppard).

Instinct was a formidable episode, but got so wasted for the last 10~15 minutes that I made me want to puke. It particularily well disclosed TPTB's intentions and lack of guts.

And then there's that long list of dubious ethical choices the main characters keep making, but get so excused since they're *the heroes* you know.

Plus that whole retrovirus nonsense. Just magical how a doctor from Earth just pops there and finds a solution to the Wraith problem. Just a F**king miracle! Right!

So for me, it didn't take long after S2 started to see the whole boat sink.

[nonniemous]

The shark jumping moment may end up being season two as a whole and all the opportunities that were missed.

I agree with this 100%. They've tried this season to fix what they messed up in Season Two, flat story telling, rampant Rodneyopia that marginalized almost every other character, and introducing story arcs that needed a whole lot more depth and quality to the storytellng to pull off. They've made some good strides this season in addressing those issues, but

Spoiler:

dropping the Michael arc for what sounds like a "Stormship Troopers ripoff" and killing Carson off

are simply amputations and they're hoping the tourniquets (aka Jewel's new character) will hold and prevent them from bleeding out. Trouble is that once the avalanche has started, well you know what they say about the pebbles. I think that due to the low ratings this season there are also a lot more chefs in the kitchen at this point, as in Skiffy pushing for an SG1 character to cross over rather than letting Bridge decide how to fix things. It's a cascading failure, and it goes right back to Season 2.

The wasted potential in this show is absolutely the most frustrating thing about it for this fan.

[kris]

For those who poo-poo such tactics I'll point out that unless you see each and every movie that comes out you must be making judgment calls "sight unseen" as well.

So... How 'bout the rest of you?

You'll get no poo-poo from me. I'm with you. In my case, I know what I like and don't like about the cast changes.

As for jumping the shark: No, I don't think it's jumped. The cast changes will be weathered by the audience and they'll adjust. Season four will be quality yet; the writers have a boatload of experience behind them and do a good job for the most part. They still have their bells and whistles.

I've never expected too much from the plots and they'll go in the same vein which is fine with a lot of viewers. If they start getting some really inane story lines or lose McKay or Shep, that's when the shark will start a-circlin'.

Like leelakin, I'll be happier if I retreat and forget season four, remember how it was in the first 2.75 seasons or so and how McKay inspired me to write 5 fanfics. And again...(I'm so repeating myself, sorry--I'm in the acceptance stage, seriously!)...as sueKay called it, I'll never enjoy a "McKay/Carter Variety Hour". I still can't believe she's gating over. Carter is a long-established character who'll be a strong presence and I'm very disappointed she's joining SGA. It's no wonder Weir has been demoted.

Too bad. What's done is done and good luck to the campaign for Beckett.

<--- still the best, but better with Carson around -->

(good discussion here, btw)

[Night Spring]

I think it's too early to say that SGA has jumped the shark, though I think I see the sharks circling, smelling the blood. But it's still possible that TPTB can pull off a miraculous recovery in S4, though IMO, the possibility of that is slim. So I'm not ready yet to say the shark has jumped. But if the show does sink in S4, then I think I'd probably look back and say that the moment the show jumped shark was not a moment in the show itself, but the moment when a certain producer posted some remarks in his blog that rightly or wrongly was taken to imply that he thought of certain fans who objected to the cast changes / new direction of the show as "shrill, ill-informed lemmings."

[ShadowMaat]

Might have been a shark jump point on a certain career, if not necessarily the show. But then again, look at the things Aaron Sorkin said about West Wing fans and he's still big in Hollywood. *shrug*

For me, at least, Atlantis has jumped the shark. I'm glad others are still convinced that there aren't even any fins in sight, but for those who can see the sharks circling... hope the Jaws theme doesn't get on your nerves.

[PG15]

So what, The Fans[tm] can't take some criticism?

[ToasterOnFire]

It would appear that a certain PTB can't either...

[mcbarr]

I think this "jump the shark" thing started when Atlantis reestablished contact with Earth. Then it continued with all the stuff mentioned previously. The excessive jokes and filler episodes haven't helped either... God knows I haven't been able to sit down and watch SGA as a sci-fi show for some time now. It's more like comedy sci-fi to me. I hope TPTB take things more seriously next season.

[RealmOfX]

For me the show hasn't jumped the shark yet, though I do see the sharks circling.

I almost stopped watching in S2, almost. S2 seemed to be a very trivial season that didn't add on to the promising first season. Kirking, a lack of character development, furthering plots by getting characters to do dumb things etc, etc, etc. I did hang on, though, and S3 seems to be heading back in the right direction but I still see this show as one that holds promise rather than a great show.

Whether the current upheavals with characters and proposed "soft reset" ends up being the shark repellant or the chum in the water remains to be seen. It all depends on how TPTB choose to implement the changes. Have they learnt from past mistakes or are we doomed to have another cancelled show and TPTB using every excuse under the sun for it's failure bar the most important one - their contribution to the situation.

[Ouroboros]

The definitive jump the shark moment for me I think was the huge stupid cop-out that closed out seige part III. "I'll just hook up a puddlejumper cloak to the city and then the wraith will asume it's destroyed despite no wreckage and without even bothering to check. Then they'll all just leave and we'll win."

It was basically a whole season of buildup flushed down the toilet with the stupidest cop out imaginable, a cop out aided by ridiculous technobabble as well.

That episode sent the message to me that they were perfectly willing to cheat the audience with a ridiculous unbelievable ending like that, and they'd do it again. Sure enough they did. Season 3 started out fairly ok but it seemed like more of a last sputter as the tank ran dry. With a few rare exceptions the episodes that have followed seige III have been bland, boring, predictable and stuffed to the rafters with criminally ****ty writing and lame plot devices that would make kindergardeners feel cheated of a proper ending.

As such I think the seige III ending is the perfect jump the shark moment. It was the dramatic height of the franchise thus far and rather than get a wicked cool payoff that wowed us, we got a lame lazy and ridiculous copout. Then everytihng after it, for the most part, sucked more on average than what had come before.

Perfect definition of jumping the shark.

[Lauriel]

So what, The Fans[tm] can't take some criticism?

I think we've (general) proved that we can in fact take criticism. The lemmings remarks were on the whole recieved with a little bit of offence, but mostly with good grace and jokes and a "you dish it out, we'll take it and run with it" attitude, rather than riling and vilifying him about it. The lemmings thread is rather amusing, and is not filled with raging diatribe against JM.

I also think season 3 showed that they can and do listen to the fans. Many of the faults/changes we talked about during season 2 were addressed in season 3. This is the thing that gives me hope, in spite of my misgivings, that the sharks may be circling, but have not yet bitten.

So many fundamental changes though, while more than likely necessary with SG-1 finishing, are a too much for a fan to take without having misgivings.

[FlashBang]

For me, I think the show jumped the shark around mid-season 2. It lost steam, and became, well, badly written and thought out. By that, I mean it felt like the lost the point of the show, and that's a very bad thing. Season 3 has been working on fixing the damage of everyone's under-the-table-lobotomies, but there is only so much you can do. Michael was a *good* storyline, but it was executed too soon. It should have been later, like season 4. Give them time to create the situation that would call for the extreme measures. Then the utter stupidity of repeating the mistake...what the devil were they thinking? It just felt completely OOC, especially for someone like Rodney, who had to *earn* trust back after "Trinity." It just didn't make sense.

The Asurans should have been brought in around Season 5 or 6 (if the show lasted that long). Of course, wasn't that around the time of the Replicators on SG-1, or am I mixing up my timelines again? But, it just felt too soon. The Ancients pissy attitudes about helping and the Wraith would have been a much better several season arc. Adding back story and culture to the Wraith, showing how they were created, like flashbacks, and the duality of being not-human but not-quite-insect either. How it affects them. What happens to one that's a little different. If Ellia was the only one that was raised human. Villians need depth. As bad guys, they kinda suck. They don't have enough oomph power. Half the time, I'm cheering them on because the expedition members are stupider than a rock. Adding too many bad guys (hello, shouldn't "space vampires" be enough of cheese for the show?) means you lose quality for quanitity. Not why I watch a show.

Personally, the tumor was pretty "huh?!" inducing. I'd say that was Jaws second victim in the water. Or would that be third? Fouth maybe? It just feels like they're messing up without giving any thought. Maybe that's the biggest jumping the shark moment: when the producers just don't care about the show so early on. They seem rather content (and jaded - whether it be fans, network, anyone but themselves) for the show that's so early in the making. Complacent might be a better word. When other around them aren't showing that, it's a problem. But the problem of doing something in media, as in television, you have to take the criticism with the praise.

Edit: Oh, and they dropped a very important point when Ford "disappeared." He could have been helpful, especially given that whole badly executed retrovirus, but it was a dropped thread. One that actually *could* have fit in and helped. Runner showed that he was looking for acceptance from his former "friends" and The Lost Boys/Hive proved it. There could have been a great arc on that. One that helped the characters grow and learn. But I'm not sure that qualifies as a shark jumping moment. Just a stupid error.

[PG15]

I think we've (general) proved that we can in fact take criticism. The lemmings remarks were on the whole recieved with a little bit of offence, but mostly with good grace and jokes and a "you dish it out, we'll take it and run with it" attitude, rather than riling and vilifying him about it. The lemmings thread is rather amusing, and is not filled with raging diatribe against JM.

I haven't been in that thread since its inception, but I do see the results; very amusing.

The comment was aimed more at those who didn't take it so well...

[Jenner8675309]

From Wikipedia:

"Jumping the shark is a metaphor that was originally used to denote the tipping point at which a TV series is deemed to have passed its peak, or has introduced plot twists that are illogical in terms of everything that has preceded them. Once a show has "jumped the shark", fans sense a noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm. The term has also evolved to describe other areas of pop culture, including movie series, music, acting celebrities, or authors for whom a drastic change was seen as the beginning of the end. These changes are often attempts to attract their fans' waning attention with over-the-top statements or increasingly overt appeals to sex or violence. Some have broadened its use to simply describe any decline in appeal for the subject in question, without requiring a significant "jump the shark" moment as justification.

Jump-the-shark moments are typically scenes that finally convince viewers that the show has fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise. In these cases, they are viewed as a desperate and futile attempt to keep a series fresh in the face of a decline in ratings. In other cases, the departure or replacement of a main cast member or character or a significant change in setting changes a critical dynamic of the show.

The phrase specifically arises from a scene in the hit TV comedy series Happy Days. In the early days of the series, Fonzie had performed a trademark jump on his motorcycle with a ramp over a number of cars - Evel Knievel style. Evel Knievel, at the time, had established himself as a real-life motorcycle daredevil and was significant in pop-culture.

In later years of the show, after the high school plot had finished and the college years began, and in an attempt to resurrect the show's run, the writers were challenged to come up with new, fresh stories; they developed a story where Arthur "Fonzie" Fonzarelli, wearing his trademark leather jacket despite the well-known negative effects of salt water on leather, literally jumps over a shark on water skis.

Many have noted the shark episode as the moment when they realized the show was no longer worth watching, considering the scene to be unrealistic and of poor quality, making it impossible to maintain suspension of disbelief."

Hmmm, well while my personal jump the shark moment was Carson, sounds like on a whole the show has jumped per se. And if you use the above definition, I'd say with all the uproar over various plotlines, Atlantis has indeed jumped the shark. Just different moments for different viewers.

After 3 seasons....ekkkk, I personally didn't think SG1 jumped the shark until the 200th ep. Compare 10 seasons (excellent) to three (poor) and well, I hate to sound like Debbie Downer, but I think this may be the beginning of the end

I still watch SGA, kinda enjoy it (the first show without Beckett was painful. Its still a wait and see period), but I miss the old days.

[Mitchell82]

IMO no. I know many don't like the recent changes but so far the only onec I can comment on is Carson. I was at first really pissed and affraid I wouldnt enjoy the show. I miss him yes but still find the show very entertaining. I agree that the retrovirus may be morally dubious but I can understand and accept the reasoning as a fellow military man and the fact that they are at war and needed a advantage. I love Michael and love every ep he's in. I also love Lucius *dodges tomatoes*. I can't comment on the others as I refuse to say it will be bad till I see it. So far the show is not even near shark infested waters imo.