The Woman King (314)

[n7sen]

An excellent episode in my opinion.Really enjoyed it.And my attitude towards Helo has changed.Now he is not in the list of characters i dislike.

[Trachorn]

More or less liked the episode, only one problem...

Why was the whole Helo thing even an issue? Obviously the Sagittarians didn't trust Roberts, that should have been enough to make Adama/Cottle/Tigh at least consider trying to do something to restore his credibility. If nothing else, why didn't Helo try to use that argument to get them to remove Roberts? After all, if no Sagittarian is willing to be treated by Roberts, then there's no point in having him there. But no, Helo (the character) has to be high, mighty, righteous, and always right 100% (as opposed to the writers actually making him infallible). Only reason I can see for this story going the way it did is setting Helo up for a rather large and nasty fall. Which would be a little sad, because I do like the character, usually.

Yes, if Helo had said, "look guys, the sagittarians refuse to be treated by this specific man" (as opposed to accusing him without any evidence) then the episode would have been over very quickly. But it seems like some kind of reasonable dialogue should have at least been attempted. And it does bug me a bit.

Other than that though, liked the episode.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm guessing that the reaction would be, "They're civilians. Civilians squabble. And worse than that, they're Saggitarons- they don't like doctors, anyway. It's probably a lot of noise over nothing and it isn't as if we have enough doctors to go around. They'll take what we give them or they'll do without."

[Berg417448]

More or less liked the episode, only one problem...

Why was the whole Helo thing even an issue? Obviously the Sagittarians didn't trust Roberts, that should have been enough to make Adama/Cottle/Tigh at least consider trying to do something to restore his credibility. If nothing else, why didn't Helo try to use that argument to get them to remove Roberts? After all, if no Sagittarian is willing to be treated by Roberts, then there's no point in having him there. But no, Helo (the character) has to be high, mighty, righteous, and always right 100% (as opposed to the writers actually making him infallible). Only reason I can see for this story going the way it did is setting Helo up for a rather large and nasty fall. Which would be a little sad, because I do like the character, usually.

Yes, if Helo had said, "look guys, the sagittarians refuse to be treated by this specific man" (as opposed to accusing him without any evidence) then the episode would have been over very quickly. But it seems like some kind of reasonable dialogue should have at least been attempted. And it does bug me a bit.

Other than that though, liked the episode.

In the podcast RDM told that there was a whole story line (now discarded) which explained their reluctance to believe Helo at first. It was sort of a "boy who cried wolf" thing with respect to always trying to draw attention to one situation or another. Without that back story the aired story tends to make less sense now.

[Lady Snow]

I do think, for someone who used to just surprise the heck out of me and always take the road less taken when it comes to plots (moore seems to delight in donig precisely what you dont' expect him to do) being able to predict the outcome and navigate the cliches is the most disappointing part of the whole episode.

It was predictible. Which is what bsg doesn't have a rep of being

YES! This is exactly why I didn't like the episode.

[Snord]

Hey! Pop quiz: Why is this episode called 'The Woman King' ? At first I thought that maybe the doctor was going to be a woman or a guy discriminating against women at first instead of Sagitarons. I was wrong on all accounts. Isn't a woman king called a QUEEN? After watching the episode I am even more confused.

[ShadowMaat]

Hey! Pop quiz: Why is this episode called 'The Woman King' ? At first I thought that maybe the doctor was going to be a woman or a guy discriminating against women at first instead of Sagitarons. I was wrong on all accounts. Isn't a woman king called a QUEEN? After watching the episode I am even more confused.

According to someone upthread (Sky?) the last name of the woman whose son died is King. Hence the woman, King. Bit tricksy there, though, I must say.

Although historically there HAVE been women kings. Just look at Hatshepsut.

[kittykatta]

I hate Helo. He's an annoying one-dimensional self-righteous character has yet to prove he couldn't be replaced by any other anonymous crew member on the ship. And as handsome as everyone feels Helo is, he isn't interesting enough to hold an entire episode on his back. Now that said, my Helo-annoyance is not what made this episode suck. Hear me out.

This episode sucked because it was boring and uneventful. Helo has problem. Helo suspects doctor. Helo tells the world and gets denied. Helo is right. B-O-R-I-N-G. Wheres the twist, the suspense or the big reveal? As an audience we got a recycled 80's cop drama put in space.

Imagine this storyline in place of the cliche we were given:
Doctor is racist. Helo suspects. Saggs son dies. She cries to Helo blaming doctor. Several other patients mysteriously die. Helo tries to rescue Dee and arrests Doctor. Now the missing twist: It turns out Doctor really was doing his job and the mom was actually the leader of her fanatic sect of Saggs. Her son defies mommy and gets treated yet still dies so to defend her beliefs she starts following the Doc and killing his patients in order to prove her anti-medicine beliefs are right. Helo gets schooled for not trusting his superiors.

Now tell me that isn't an interesting story compared to crap we got here. And it would've made "The Woman King" title be more clever than "her last name was King".

[Pryito]

Just watched this episode, and I liked it but something really confuses me about it. The first episodes starting up the mid-season is 311 and 312. Then the next Sunday was superbowl, so they took off. But, this episode brings on the Saggitarons onto Galactica. What? When did this happen, I do not remember this in any previous episodes, and they played a part from a previous episode it looked like from in the brig where Tigh says something to Adama about them coming on board Galactica, and I do not remember that scene from any episodes in this season.

Am I crazy????? What episode explains why the Saggitarons were exiled to the Galactica in the first place?

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

Not just Sagittarons. There was always a problem of too many people and not enough space, and it only got worse after ships were dismantled for the colonization of New Caprica and lost in "The Passage".

Deleted scenes being referenced in the Previously On Battlestar Galactica is very common. The first time was in "Kobol's Last Gleaming".

[Pryito]

Not just Sagittarons. There was always a problem of too many people and not enough space, and it only got worse after ships were dismantled for the colonization of New Caprica and lost in "The Passage".

Deleted scenes being referenced in the Previously On Battlestar Galactica is very common. The first time was in "Kobol's Last Gleaming".

Ah, I understand. I should go back and watch that episode now. Thanks!

[Tanduay]

I thought the plot was fundementally flawed.
I agree having an episode about the tensions between the varying colonists along "racist" lines is interesting and it had to be done eventually as such tensions would increase as time goes by, resources and space on ships gets smaller. What gets me is exactly what the "difference" was.
It had been said that the saggies had avoided medicine for over a 1000 years. Now look at what earth has suffered from so far as infections etc in such a time frame. Black death, plague, aids, flu of Lord only knows how many types, and some of them killed milions, scarlet fever, diptheria, cholera, the list goes on and on. A cup of stinky tea is not going to cure that lot.
A 1000 years would have seen them dropping like flies and due to natural selection only the ones who had less strict views would have survived.
Even if they did survive by genetic well being and natural selection they would have real short life spans.
This took the plot out of the realm where I could suspend belief.
The doctor wouldn't have had to bother killing off patients, they do it themselves.


Another reason for overcrowding was loosing a ship or 2 when the went to the algie planet.

[Matt G]

OK...

1. Helo pulls his fist right back and...WHAM!

2. I expected Hera to get sick.

3. Head-Baltar. Wonder what Roslyn made of 'that' reaction?

4. Zarek wanting martial law? Yeah right!

5. OK, could someone explain why the audio on the bonus scene was so warped that my Dad is dead cert it's fake?

Overall, this ep had it's moments. Known better, known worse.

[Blitz]

I loved this episode:

People can say its flawed and so forth, but heres how I see it:

1) BSG has always been about the gritty side of life - not just about space battles and big explosions but also humanity - its sexy and ugly sides.

And thats what we saw - not enough space after the exodus and racial differences.

2) The reason the three tops : Adama, Tigh and Cottle are probably reluctant to look into it is because it IS a civilian matter more than any other - civilians and civilian Dr - they cant be seen to be intervening in ALL matters.

Yes they were a bit blunt but it could easily of turned into a "miltiary trying to do everything" / people vs military.

We like to see it as our people being stubborn but it would be a very political matter...

[Catsitter]

Pointless, contrived, filler episode. I feel starved of Tigh-ness in the last few episodes, so I was grateful that there was lots of him in this one, but he was certainly OOC. At least they let him be one who helped save the day in the end rather than have Lee turn up to save Dee (except it turned out she didn't need saving...). But I really don't see Tigh letting his personal feelings influence his judgment in the way he did in this episode - that's exactly what he doesn't do.

And I don't understand anything about this drug that cures the disease when it has already taken hold and can also be used to inoculate against it - or were there two different drugs, both in short supply? - Usually someone, say Baltar, would be able to develop a cure or a vaccine and then manufacture as much of it as was needed in no time at all, so how come they couldn't do the same here? If they had got Baltar to make a cure then he could have redeemed himself, couldn't he?

It's one of those episodes where the more I think about it, the less sense it makes, so I shall stop thinking about it now.