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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Colonel Gregorius's Avatar
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    Default The Anti Season 4 Thread (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

    I don't know if this thread exists yet - if it does then the mods can merge or something - but considering the recent discoveries about Atlantis Season 4 I think it's time for the Anti-Season 4 thread.

    As far as we know there will be a lot of changes in the Atlantis cast:
    Spoiler:
    - Weir becomming recurring (Or in TPTB language: 1 ep then forget it)
    - Beckett being shipped off.
    - A new doctor.
    - Sam Carter in 14 eps.


    I think this trend of changes is rather worry some and due to the show starting to decline in overall quality since season 2 (The bad choices season) and the rather mediocre first part of season 3 (The Sheppard and McKay show), I think it's for the best if the shows ends with season 3 if the current PTB remain in charge.
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  2. #2
    Mr. Parker gatelover12's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    These cast changes show that the only people left who had faith in TPTB, themselves, have realized that the inevitable is upon them. It's a last ditch effort to turn Atlantis into a new show, instead of having to fix it. An attempt that's destined to fail.

  3. #3
    Colonel ToasterOnFire's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Honestly, when I first heard that
    Spoiler:
    Carson was leaving and Jewel's character was replacing him
    I was disappointed but still thinking overall positive thoughts about s4.

    Now that I hear that
    Spoiler:
    Torri Higginson is going to be demoted to recurring and Amanda Tapping will be on not 4 eps but 14 next season
    I'm much more negative about the upcoming season.
    Spoiler:
    Having Carter on for 4 eps would have been manageable for me, but 14 episodes just screams 'Hey, let's turn the show into SG1: Atlantis!' Boo PTB, boo.


    This all follows the trend of PTB removing or minimizing characters that they obviously have no idea/desire to write for (Ford and now
    Spoiler:
    Carson and Elizabeth).
    That's poor writing and management, my friends. How utterly embarrassing that we know so little about almost all the characters after 50+ episodes of the show.

    After all the casting changes and demotions are said and done, I'll be completely surprised if this show gets renewed for another season. TPTB have dug themselves one hell of a hole and I have little confidence that they can get themselves out.

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    I've never participated in an anti-season thread. However, the actions of TPTB have dimmed my views of "their" show. It's certainly not one aimed at the fans.

    At the moment, I don't have a very positive view of what is to come in Season 4. I don't care how phenomenal or well-done an episode is if it results in the loss of main cast members. Nor do I care for the "recurring" status. We all saw first hand what "recurring" meant for Franks/Ford. We saw the excitement expressed by TPTB and what a great thing this was going to be for Franks and his character. Now they express that same optimism with the latest news of cast departures. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

    I watch a show for the characters and their development. I expect good story development too. Neither is happening with SGA. The characters are reset at the start of each new episode. The story just isn't progressing. The characters are being axed slowly but surely. How does this trend equate to quality entertainment?

  5. #5
    Major Luz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    After I heard about Carson I thought tptb couldn't be so dumb as to replace such a beloved character. When it was confrimed I decided to still give the show a chance.
    But now upon hearing that
    Spoiler:
    Carter will be in fourteen episodes, and that Weir (my favorite character on the show) is going to be demoted to recurring.

    I can't watch this show anymore, too many sweeping changes in too short a period of time, this isn't the show I started watching, this is some freaking screwed up hybrid, I'm so pissed, like you have no idea, this is what I was afraid was going to happen, and now it's happening and the show is most probably going to get cancelled in season four, but I no longer care.

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Gregorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    I think the real problem here is that the current PTB, and especially M&M and RC, have developed this feeling that they can sacrifice anything, do anything and people will still like it. I think these recent announcements just make it clear that the PTB are out of ideas and rather have their shows canceled than handing it over to others.

    Besides of that, as was said here earlier, after 3 seasons the only characters we know a bit about are Sheppard and McKay. What character development have the other characters gotten after season 1? We know basicly nothing about Beckett, Weir, Teyla and Ronon. The only time a character, besides the golden duo, got developed a bit was when Ford was written out. Suddenly we know about his family, about what drives Ford and how much he's willing to risk to make his plans succeed.

    Spoiler:
    And now they're axing Beckett and Weir, and replacing them with Sam? What's next Daniel, Vala and Cambo there as well so they can replace Teyla and Ronon? So TPTB can write a show with only scences between Carter - McKay, Sheppard - Cambo/McKay, Daniel - Vala?

    Furthermore, why is Sam needed on Atlantis? I really don't get this change, because they have McKay on Atlantis already as the resident supergenius and if McKay can't solve it Sheppard also posses a genius level intellect. Why is a third genius needed? If they'd send in Daniel I could've understood, he's an expert on the Ancients, but Carter? It basicly implies that they're too lazy to write backgrounds on the other regulars, besides the golden duo, and so they kick them out and add an established character as to make their writing easier.

    And on the same note, what will they do with their current wallpaper Ronon and Teyla? Will those two get treated as Teal'c and Sam are treated on SG-1 now; wallpaper unless needed to further the plot?


    I think, and I've stated this before, that the best thing for the entire Stargate Franchise is that the current PTB leave and a new showrunner + writers gets installed - Anyone remember how the quality of ST: Enterprise suddenly increased when the power over the series was largely taken away from B&B and given to a new writer (I believe he was called Manni Coto?) - because when people get to run a franchise too long, and they don't have a vision of what's going to have to happen next to keep thr franchise vital, they will get too comfortable in their seats and get too convident in their abilities which in turn will result in the destruction of a franchise.
    Signed,

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  7. #7
    Major jonno's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    First off - i presume you can be anti but still watch? Sorry, but i normally avoid the pro and anti threads ... i'll be watching still because i want to know who things turn out, and because it might surprise me.

    I have to say, i'm majorly dissappointed with all these cast changes - in both shows atm, the meaty scenes only ever go to Shep, Rodney, Mitchell, Vala/Vaniel. The others who they have to think how to write, and apparently can't develop get side-lined, and now they're bringing in new characters to replace them? B'ah.

    I've said it elsewhere - just because your writers can't come up with stuff for a character, it doesn't mean you dump the character. No - you dump the writer.

    Of course, it's possible that it'll all work, and it'll be brilliant. But i'd still rather it be brilliant with Atlantis' proper cast
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  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel Gregorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Quote Originally Posted by jonno View Post
    First off - i presume you can be anti but still watch? Sorry, but i normally avoid the pro and anti threads ... i'll be watching still because i want to know who things turn out, and because it might surprise me.
    Of course you can. At lot of people in the anti threads still watch the show and use the anti-threads to talk about why the shows are declining.


    I've said it elsewhere - just because your writers can't come up with stuff for a character, it doesn't mean you dump the character. No - you dump the writer.
    And that the problem when you have a group that's been working with each other for years, they cover each other's backs instead of taking responsibility and lose the writers/directors who don't deliver quality.
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  9. #9
    Major jonno's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorius View Post
    And that the problem when you have a group that's been working with each other for years, they cover each other's backs instead of taking responsibility and lose the writers/directors who don't deliver quality.
    Indeed. Also - the same set of people can only have a limited number of ideas - or ones that they like. So whilst they may try and avoid copything themselves over and over again, they'll fail - they'll go back to what works in their eyes. IMO, since about Season 7 of SG-1 (not to include S1 of Atlantis, which was fresh and new, and GOOD), you've slowly began to see more and more cracks in the lining in terms of storyline and the writing of characters and plots.

    You need to cycle - keep a set few of course, but bring in new blood ... to get new perspectives and fresh ideas - to break up the current set, which has become too cozy with each other.

    It's not that i don't still enjoy lots of what they produce, it's that i have to mentally paper over the cracks i see in it - even in the good stuff.
    I'm not Weird, I'm Gifted!

  10. #10
    Sheppard’s Golf Club Jackie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Forgot about Colonel Caldwell and his ship.

    Spoiler:
    The Apollo comes with a NEW CO.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel cshawzye's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    I really like Atlantis and I wish I didn't have all the misgivings that I do about the upcoming season. I realize it's TPTB's show and they can do what they want with it ... but the way it's going right now I just can't see it being a good direction for the show. And after seeing all the new information that's coming out and reading this new interview with Joe Flanigan that's posted on GW main page ... I just have to shake my head. I don't understand what the need of the "shake up" is and it all has me seriously concerned for the future of the show.
    Last edited by cshawzye; January 14th, 2007 at 07:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Captain
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    My biggest problem is with
    Spoiler:
    Sam coming to Atlantis.

    I've been watching SG-1 since the 7th season, and thanks to re-runs I've seen nearly every episode of that show ever aired. Sam just...fails to interest me. She's a Girl Scout, she's the Prom Queen. Her flaws are all overlooked. There's nothing deep with the character, nothing to keep me interested. She's smart and pretty and...zzzzz. Oh, sorry, was I supposed to be paying attention?

    Then there's the fact that whenever you put Carter and McKay in the same room, Carter has to win. I hate that. I like McKay; I like to see him come out on top, and I think that the appearance of Carter is going to be a step backwards in his character development. It'll be back to "hey everyone, let's laugh at McKay!"

    Carter doesn't fail enough, or rather, she doesn't get called out for failing enough. She screws up, and no one cares. That's the way it goes with SG-1, but it's not the way it goes with Atlantis. Atlantis is the Island of Misfit Toys (and I'm blatantly stealing that comparison from a fanfic). It's characters are fantastically flawed and close to each other; they have a chemistry that Carter just doesn't fit into. Yes, she makes sense in a practical sense (because of the combination of military and scientific knowledge), but from a character point of view and a story point of view? Heavy involvement for her character in Atlantis is sheer stupidity.

    I'm just hoping they're not dumb enough to try and replace Liz with Carter, as some fans have suggested.

    I'm upset at Carson's departure, but I'll be able to survive it. If they bring him back eventually. I love Jewel, but I want Paul to stay.

    As for Torri's demotion? I'm waiting for TPTB to make an official announcement and an explanation. It's a dumb move, but I want more information before I say anything about it.


    I'm getting one of my chem major friends to figure out a way to force a package to combust upon opening, so I can just go ahead and send TPTB a flaming bag of crap. 'Cause that's what all these cast changes are; a flaming bag of crap.
    They say the geek never gets the girl...what about the girl getting the geek?

    Rodney/Teyla...it could happen

    spoilers for "200"
    Spoiler:
    Gen. Hammond: It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I'm the general, and I want it to spin!
    ********

    Vala: Are you saying that General O'Neill is...

    Cam: My daddy?

  13. #13
    Chief Master Sergeant Sweetsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    In the regular off world episodes, Weir doesn't get that much air time anyways. She is the one who stays at home and gives the orders, so I don't see a problem with her being recurring.

    I understand there are lots of Weir fans here that love seeing her small parts in each episodes when Shepard returns to Atlantis to let her know what's up on off world planet X. I think she's a great character as well but she doesn't get to have as much fun as the other characters who get to go offworld more.

    I have to agree that I don't see the need to have Carter in almost the entire 4th season. I love the episodes when they pit her and Mckay against each other. I didn't realize until recently that I actually like Mckay's character better than Carters'.

    Sure they can both save the day when lives are at stake, but Mckay will whine about it and it's always so funny, whereas Sam will be so serious about it, that it took playing her off characters like RDA to make her funny. Mckay can be funny on his own.

    I can't really place judgement until I see how they will incorporate the new characters in season 4, maybe it will work maybe it wont. But who are we to really decide how things will turn out now?

  14. #14
    Brigadier General FallenAngelII's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    It's not the quantity of screen-time that matters, it's the quality of screen time. Teyla gets a lot of screen-time but it's mostly spent running, standing around and saying random lines that don't really contribute much.

    And the only reason we can see for sidelining Elizabeth would be for giving Sam a lot more space, a solution which is, well, rather stupid.

  15. #15
    Lieutenant Colonel Gregorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Quote Originally Posted by jonno View Post
    Indeed. Also - the same set of people can only have a limited number of ideas - or ones that they like. So whilst they may try and avoid copything themselves over and over again, they'll fail - they'll go back to what works in their eyes. IMO, since about Season 7 of SG-1 (not to include S1 of Atlantis, which was fresh and new, and GOOD), you've slowly began to see more and more cracks in the lining in terms of storyline and the writing of characters and plots.
    The sad thing is that they were capable of producing 6 good seasons of SG-1 but only one good season for SGA, because the second season of SGA was mediocre at best and the third season of SGA is rehash united.

    You need to cycle - keep a set few of course, but bring in new blood ... to get new perspectives and fresh ideas - to break up the current set, which has become too cozy with each other.
    Indeed there is too much of a friends atmosphere over ar Bridge, it's like they never stop to look at each other's ideas and simply assume it's allright. Also there isn't a clear vision of what has to happen in a season, it's like they all are showrunners at the same time and everyone has (or rather lacks) a vision of what has to become of the shows.

    [email protected] are like a ship without a captain and a clear goal where almost everyone seems to think they are the captain. Just take the decision to make M&M showrunners of Atlantis for example: By what logic do you make the people who are consistently writing the worst episodes on both shows for the past two seasons showrunners for the only show you still have airing? If anyone at MGM has some backbone left they should simply go to [email protected] and appoint a new showrunner and a few new writers which aren't from the [email protected] pool and have proven themselves to be capable of writing and giving direction to a show (I believe Joss Whedon and JMS are free?).

    It's not that i don't still enjoy lots of what they produce, it's that i have to mentally paper over the cracks i see in it - even in the good stuff.
    Same here and that goes especially for the recent usage of "Deus ex Machina" solutions and the poor skills in leadership, tactics and strategics the, supposedly, best of the best in the SG universe seem to have these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetsong View Post
    In the regular off world episodes, Weir doesn't get that much air time anyways. She is the one who stays at home and gives the orders, so I don't see a problem with her being recurring.
    Neither was Hammond, yet he was a regular and he had more character development in the first 3 seasons of SG-1 than Weir has ever had in both SG-1 and Atlantis and I think FallenAngelII said it best:

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenAngelII View Post
    It's not the quantity of screen-time that matters, it's the quality of screen time.
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  16. #16
    Colonel RealmOfX's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    I just wandered in to say hi and reserve myself a spot. I'm currently in wait and see mode but the more info we get the less hopeful about S4 I get.

    LOL yeah Joss Whedon or JMS would be good (but JMS has too many irons in the fire at the moment I think) or maybe they could steal Manny Coto from 24 as I liked some of his earlier works.

    There is a lot of talent both in front of and behind the cameras but as has been mentioned I think they are lacking in the leadership area. So now it is M&M's turn to lead - OK they get a chance to show us what they've got but if it's more of the same then I think the franchise is doomed.
    -

  17. #17
    Captain silence's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenAngelII View Post

    And the only reason we can see for sidelining Elizabeth would be for giving Sam a lot more space, a solution which is, well, rather stupid.
    Agreed. I actually don't like Sam that much and i am less then happy about seeing her in 14 eps of SGA. Another reason is that i suspect M&M will use her to make "funny" eps / lines with McKay (which might work ONCE in season, not whole season). Given the delights M&M gave us on SGA and how they see humor on SGA (i won't even mention "those" eps by name) i have little hope for S4.

    McKay is scientist on SGA and one of two characters that TPTB managed to give some life and now they'll prolly use Sam to poke fun of him, remove Weir and we lost Carson ... add Caldwell and beloved Deadalus that are also sidelined and that is _NOT_ Stargate: Atlantis, they could easily do this as new spin-off - i read what JF said in interview and i am scared about this rset button and all he mentioned.



    URGHHH... this day can't get any worse.

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Quote Originally Posted by silence View Post
    - i read what JF said in interview and i am scared about this rset button and all he mentioned.
    They hit the reset button with each new episode. It is a bit disconcerting for an actual admission of that from the lead of the show. It also sounds like the same stuff they spew all the time at the season and mid-season breaks. They always talk about "shaking" things up, and to me, it always comes off sounding negative.

    Yes, Weir doesn't always have good screen time and Teyla gets plenty of screen time with very little to do. I feel they should fix this by actually being creative and finding ways to better incorporate these characters, not give them the boot, or demote their status. Demoting them is an easy out for the writers in my opinion.

    Fan fiction is what it is, but I have read plenty of good fan fiction that manages to incorporate all the characters. I've read plenty o fan fiction that keeps completely in line with the characters and would be wonderful episodes. If amateurs can do it, and the same authors can do it on a consistent basis, why can't the pros?

  19. #19
    Captain Freekzilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    You know, if I had done anything as drastic as TPTB have done this year, my parents would have accused me of smoking crack. And to which my father would have said that he could cure this by putting his foot in my ass.

    To the PTB, are you guys on drugs? Would it help straighten you out if we the fans collectively put our foots in your behinds'?

    Seriously, what the heck is going on over there? In two short years we've gone from a stable franchise that can handle changes in stride to taking a face plant into utter chaos!!!! Are they trying to kill SGA?
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  20. #20
    Chief Master Sergeant Sweetsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Anti Season 4 Thread (Atlantis) (Spoilers). For complaints and misgivings ONL

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenAngelII View Post
    It's not the quantity of screen-time that matters, it's the quality of screen time. Teyla gets a lot of screen-time but it's mostly spent running, standing around and saying random lines that don't really contribute much.
    I think we'd all agree that not only is this science fiction, but it's an action adventure genre. Teyla can fight and defend herself. Weir at best is only a damsel in distress. Only fight scene we saw with Wier was in "The Long Goodbye" where it wasn't even her but an alien entity controlling her.

    Long story short, Weir's scenes can be boring and ultimately will be cut short because she is not an action character unless she's in an argument with someone if that counts. I"m not trying to dumb down Weir's importance,it's just the way I see it.

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