Sheppard in No Man's Land - Did him hitting the hyperdrive actually screw up our plan

[rarocks24]

Alright, as we all know in Allies, the Wraith Queen deceived us and now two hive ships were on their way. Sheppard pulls off some fancy stuff and manages to catch a ride by hiding in the hive ship's blind spot so to speak, also being trapped in the hive ship's subspace bubble was quite nice as well.

Let's recap how that battle had gone.

1) Hive ships drop out of hyperspace.
2) Hive ship gets hit in her intergalactic hyperdrive
3) Launches darts
4) Sheppard gets aprehended and is about to be interrogated by the Queen.
5) Michael comes along and helps them get them off the ship (him, Rodney, and Ronon).
6) Meanwhile, the Daedalus launched all her payload at the hive ship with Rodney, Mckay, and Sheppard on.
7) Orion drops out and in a period of seconds an entire hive is pushing daisies.
8) The Orion starts pushing daisies as she's now unshielded. The Daedalus recovers the crew before she goes bang.
9) The Daedalus, depleted of nukes, and one on one and shields lowered, recovers Michael and the scooby gang of sorts, and upon Michael stating he's lowered the jamming signal, beams the retrovirus aboard.

Now, here's how it would have gone had Sheppard not been Han Solo.

1) Sheppard recovered.
2) Orion and Daedalus prepare for an attack
3) The hive ships drop out.
4) Unsuspecting and unguarded, the Daedalus empties her nuclear payload upon the hive ship, who perhaps could have taken two or three before our "Allied" queen was pushing daisies along with Michael, Ronon, and Rodney.
5) The other hive moves to engage the Daedalus, considering running back to Pegasus and getting help.
6) Orion jumps in and fires a massive drone barrage, KOing the other hive.

[FallenAngelII]

Hives are very fast and space is very vast. The Daedalus was pretty far away from the Hive when it dropped out of Hyperspace. The darts would've made it out to destroy the nuclear missiles, anyway.

[theonebluegecko]

I think that in the end it does not matter looking back whether Sheppard's action was ultimately the best one or not. I think that at the time and with what little information Sheppard had he did the right thing.

[wise one]

well it doesnt really matter they all survived and got a free wraith( then destroyed it the next episode)

[Ouroboros]

I got the impression that if he hadn't shot that hyperdrive thing the hives would have jumped away long before the Daedalus could have got there. Wasn't that the whole point of doing it?

[rarocks24]

No. The thing is, the Daedalus and Orion had a window to hit them before they (the hive ships) went back into Hyperspace. Because they're organic, they'd have to drop out. If Daedalus launched and hit them in that window (I believe there was a good hour before the Wraith would be able to fire up their hyperdrives and skidaddle), then both ships could have made it.

As for Wraith ships being pretty fast, true. They are. But given that it takes time to launch darts, matters of seconds really, it'd take those nukes to come closer to the hive ship. Very clearly, those Wraith already had darts out, and therefore the element of surprise was ruined.

The other hive ship is a mute point. If these hives had the audacity to go for the pot and not inform the other Wraith, then somehow it wouldn't surprise me to see the other hive ship jump away.

[theonebluegecko]

No. The thing is, the Daedalus and Orion had a window to hit them before they (the hive ships) went back into Hyperspace. Because they're organic, they'd have to drop out. If Daedalus launched and hit them in that window (I believe there was a good hour before the Wraith would be able to fire up their hyperdrives and skidaddle), then both ships could have made it.

Wait, which ships do you mean and where could they have made it?

As for Wraith ships being pretty fast, true. They are. But given that it takes time to launch darts, matters of seconds really, it'd take those nukes to come closer to the hive ship. Very clearly, those Wraith already had darts out, and therefore the element of surprise was ruined.

I believe it would actually take quite a while for the nuke to get there if traveling through normal space. Given the enormous size of the hive ships the Daedalus and the Orion were really quite far away, it would take more than a few seconds to make it there.

[rarocks24]

Wait, which ships do you mean and where could they have made it?

Both the Daedalus and the Orion would have made the window to hit the Wraith ships before they (the hives) were able to go back into hyperspace.

... However, the ships are organic in nature. They will need to make brief pauses to recover from the effects of hyperspace radiation.

In approximately one hour, the Wraith will drop out of hyperspace ... (she pushes a button and a star map appears on the screens) ... here. It's just outside of the Pegasus galaxy. There, they will pause for fifteen hours. If Daedalus and Orion break orbit on our current schedule, they should be able to reach those coordinates in just under fourteen hours, best possible speed.

I believe it would actually take quite a while for the nuke to get there if traveling through normal space. Given the enormous size of the hive ships the Daedalus and the Orion were really quite far away, it would take more than a few seconds to make it there.

As to the amount of time it took the nukes to reach the hive ship from the Daedy. I'm downloading No Man's Land from iTunes to get an ETA.

[Kirath]

There are alot of variables. for example where the wraith preparing to enter hyperspace before his attack, would the Wraith long range sensors have been able to detect the their approach, would the wraith have a fighter screen deployed or how fast they could have launched a squadron.

[rarocks24]

My only assumption was that they were expecting an attack after their hyperdrive got hit. I'm not putting the blame on Sheppard for anything. This was really a sort of a what if.

About 17-20 seconds from the Daedalus to the hive. I'm more inclined to believe they didn't, for the reason that the hive would have known about the Orion and chances are if you detect an Ancient warship in orbit nearby that could KO you instantly, I'd kinda think the Wraith Queen would bail out, given the fact that she has some incredible amount of cunning and intelligence.

[kirmit]

I think without the darts all already outside the hive a lot more damage would've been done to the hives and a lot less to our ships, the orion probably would've survived. The darts do release pretty quick but even with them already out one nuke got through, I reckon 4 maybe even 5 would've gotten through with the element of surprise, enough to take out the ship. The orion could've released its drones as soon as it dropped out of hyperspace taking out the other hive and not gettin destroyed. That plan would've been more effective but what's done is done.

[rarocks24]

But the darts weren't already out. That was only a fraction of the amount of darts the Queen (if that hive queen wasn't dead at the time) possessed. I'm more inclined to believe however that the reason the other hive started firing on the other hive was because the Wraith killed the other Queen. When they found out what was going on, folded over to the other Queen and followed her orders. But alas', I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

[kirmit]

But the darts weren't already out. That was only a fraction of the amount of darts the Queen (if that hive queen wasn't dead at the time) possessed. I'm more inclined to believe however that the reason the other hive started firing on the other hive was because the Wraith killed the other Queen. When they found out what was going on, folded over to the other Queen and followed her orders. But alas', I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

I think you're thinking of 'the hive' no hives fired on each other in 'no mans land' and all the darts were certainly out, as they showed a pretty good shot showing them all.
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s3/3...l/nml0429.html
All those grey little dashes are darts.

[PG15]

The hive didn't know anything about Orion; it was parked outside their sensor range at the beginning of "Allies".

Right?

[rarocks24]

The hive didn't know anything about Orion; it was parked outside their sensor range at the beginning of "Allies".

Right?

Which says a lot about Wraith sensor range.