The appearance of characters from "SG1" in "SGA" and vice versa, and it's validity.

[Flyboy]

SPOILERS FOR ALL SGA SEASONS and SG1 S9 & 10 ARE LIKELY IN THIS THREAD




To summarise a lengthy discussion spawned from the Amanda Tapping SGA S4 thread...

Is it acceptable to have O'Neill in Atlantis episodes such as the ReturnPt 2.. and is it acceptable for characters of either show to appear in their sister show?

Discuss.

[SaberBlade]

There is nothing wrong with crossovers. Never has never will be.

However, it's not a crossover when you plan to relocate a character to a sister show when it's already got established characters which may or may not get A: replaced or B: get less screen time. And that is when the problems start.

Take Jack, Atlantis has no one like him. However, Carter doesn't really fit, her relocation is based more on the fact she signed a contract and they know she is will do more for the franchise. As a result, it can appear that she would replace McKay, as both serve the same role on their respective shows.

It's one of the reasons why everyone was saying how Daniel should go to Atlantis because he's the ancient expert, he speaks the language and Atlantis does not have a character like him. Jack, pretty much the same deal. He wouldn't be replacing anyone if he shows up from time to time. In fact, Return II was probably the most he's done for either show since season 8 had "It's Good to be King", or the finales for season 7 and 8 of SG1.

Carter on the other hand is the SG1 version of Rodney and it could make people think they are replacing him for her. This wouldn't happen with the other SG1 characters. People may think they've got a Jack/Maybourne thing going on with their actions, but they didn't make Maybourne a regular because of it and they didn't give other established characters less time from episode to episode to make room for Maybourne or anything like that. Even if they did, Maybourne is still differnt to any other character in the show so it's not like they'd be replacing Daniel for Maybourne because they interact better with each other.

Even if such a regular guest apperance didn't affect a main character, what about the background characters. Should an already well established character crossover for the long term, does this mean we can expect less of Zelenka because Carter and McKay have better chemistry?

I think that is really the problem. We have characters in the show we love and want to see more off, but a character, who we also love gets brought in and could disrupt things.

Personally, I can't wait to see what they do with Carter in season 4 although I am concerned other characters may get pushed out of the picture to make room.

[ACharmedAsgard]

Cross overs help strengthen the link and also helps remind people of the link between shows and also answers questions people ask such as "Why don't Daniel and Sam go to Atlantis to find this or that rather then reling on this?" etc

[nonniemous]

First off, I'm a fan of both shows, so nothing said in this post is meant disrespectfully to either show, and there is no royal "we" involved.

Repeating and rephrasing what I said in that same thread: SG1 and SGA are two different shows in theme, purpose, and characterization. SGA is much darker, its characters less perfect than SG1. It's the red-headed step-child of the SGC. By contrast, SG1 and, by extension, Carter, Teal'c, Daniel, Jack, and most other characters from the show, are the golden children, the ones who can do no wrong. These characters are larger than life, always get everything right, and even when they screw up, it's okay; there aren't that many real consequences.

In Atlantis, by contrast, Sheppard "screwed up" and woke the Wraith and precipitated a holocaust. Beckett "screwed up" and we got Hoff, Michael, and Misbegotten. Weir authorized experimentation on a sentient species and torture of a civilian scientist. McKay screws up and we lost 5/6s of a solar system. Can you see Sam making that same kind of mistake? Daniel standing by while Michael was experimented on or Kavanaugh tortured? I can't, and we haven't because that's not part of the black and white world in which SG1 exists. Nor will we, I believe, because it goes against everything they've invested in these characters for the last ten years.

In Atlantis, they've gone to great lengths to create a darker, more morally ambiguous world than SG1, and the characters and storylines reflect that. It doesn't mix well with the brighter, clearer "white hat/black hat" moral certitude of SG1. This is why, I believe, that when we get crossovers, the SGA characters like McKay revert back to their pre-SGA irritant status. Jack can be ugly to McKay and both Jack and Landry can insult and belittle Dr. Beckett in ways which I don't recall them ever insulting Daniel or any other regular civilian scientist on SG1. (I firmly believe both those instances are setting up Beckett's future arc this season, though, with screaming "LOOK!!! LOOK!!! Foreshadowing!!!" arrows pointing to them.)

Jack's presence in "The Return II" was okay, but I haven't been a fan of the way Jack's been written or played since season 7. I didn't like the way he reacted to McKay or Beckett in those two scenes, but again, I see that as a function of the way SG1 and the characters were created. You have to drastically change the characters of either show to get them to mix well with the others, and personally, I'd rather not. Keep the Pegasus Galaxy and Milky Way Galaxy in their own separate quadrants of the SGC Universe.

Oh, and bring Carson back full time while we're at it? Sheesh....

[cshawzye]

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the odd crossover appearance. In my opinion, though, the crossover is something that has to be done very carefully. There are a lot of people who are only fans of one of the two shows. Those people who are only fans of SGA won't get the same pleasure out of seeing SG1 cast members on their show as those people who are fans of both shows would. And, if those SG1 characters are taking up the screen time of the characters they love, it's not going to be a good situation. You don't want to have viewers tuning out because the crossover appearances are taking up the whole show. It needs to be done as something that is going to add to the show as opposed to detract from it.

[Aussie_Fan]

I totally agree that there's nothing wrong with the occasional cross over and yes, it does have to be done carefully. The writers have to make screen time for *every* character and not just McKay/Carter (for example).

Most people are worried that if an SG1 character comes to Atlantis permanetly or for a set amount of eps, one of the much loved Atlantis characters will suffer. Whether that means not enough screen time or they just disappear entirely.

[Lemonzest]

If they replace McKay with Cater, I'll stop watching. Sorry but Shep/McKay MAKE Atlantis. and to replace zelanka with carter would be a sin, i like how he's able to show mckay up at times

[andrewag]

I'm sure they are not stupid enough to replace well established characters (although, c'mon, get rid of Ronan ).

Carter could appear on earth for some reason in most of her eps etc. I think i read that she will only appear in a few episodes?

[Exiled Master]

I don't see anything bad about crossovers in principle. Evacuating characters to other shows can be okay too, but that has to be dealt with very delicately. And crossovers are great in two parters, bringing in others to show that a lot is at stake.

[FallenAngelII]

Take Jack, Atlantis has no one like him.

* 40-ish career military guy when the show started
* Witty
* Sarcastic
* Cracks jokes in the face of danger
* Becomes best friends with an academic through the Stargate program
* Leads a team consisting of himself, an academic, another soldier and an alien
* Clashes with the academic, who contrasts him, but they're best friends nonetheless

And much, much more. Sounds like John to me.

[Nolamom]

Since this digressed into somewhat of a heated argument in the other thread, I hesitate to enter into yet another thread devoted to the same subject. For the record, I like both shows. For the record, Carter is said to be slated for "a few" episodes in season 4 of Atlantis...not as a regular cast member. You'd think the way some folks were carrying on that AT was going to have her name above the title! I *hope* that the writers give the Sam character some interaction dynamics with other folks on Atlatis besides McKay - we all know how she and Rodney get along. I, for one, would like to see her interact with Weir and Teyla. Don't forget, Sam is a soldier. She and Teyla could have a good interaction - perhaps a mission with Ronin. Could be fun.

[DetriusXii]

My opinion is that Carter would improve the story dramatically if she was a temporary replacement for Dr. Weir. Weir is on a leash with the higher powers, and Sam's role as temporary leader of the Atlantis expedition would improve the plot and her character. She has no potential for growth in Sg-1 because she was overshadowed by Jack in leadeship roles.

[jenks]

Id hate to see Sam as leader of the expedition, she always looked uncomfortable in the leadership role imo...

[Madeleine]

Crossovers are one thing

Guest stars from one programme on the other is another.

Importing a character is yet another.

The only Crossover so far has been Pegasus Project, and although it was a super ep i'm glad it took so long to come and I don't want another ever or at least not for a long time. The shows don't need to stand totally alone, but for the sake of the viewers (entire countries even) who get one show and not the other, it's not good to have many. Too many and they'd feel contrived.

I don't like Guest Stars. I can handle Landry (though i loathe him) cos it's at least vaguely logical. I think to have Walter in SGA is bad; to me it just underlines a problem with SG:SG1 - that where once we had a whole realistic team of occasional characters who were the operational bods in the SGC, now we just have Walter, the one indian to support all these chiefs, and he's a character who has moved from Nice in s1-6 to Increasingly Annoying since about s7, in a gradual line when they started using him more and more.

But Jack? NO WAY. spoiler for the ep which starts with Weir in a padded room

Spoiler:

Sorry, but Jack on Atlantis was just soooo teeth-grindingly horrid. It was RDA, giving up some of his hard-won retirement, to be onscreen for large chunks of an episode... and they turn him into the sodding stupid hallucination of someone in the WRONG SHOW. What's he to Atlantis? Not much to some fans, special to others, but no way is his total atlantis specialness anything like his SG1 specialness. SG-1 fans were not given the Jack that we could have had and would almost universally have LOVED. (Sorry, I'm a bit shouty right now.) and Atlantis fans didn't even get the Jack that they know either - only someone else's hallucination of Jack, doing nothing the least bit stargatey or heroic or even plot-advancing. WASTE.

It's a total waste of Jack to do that anyway; but even if they gave him a decent role, better to have it on SG1 where people are gagging for it.

And importing characers? Having carter on SGA long term alarms me because it just means more chance of more characters (possibly includingg Carter herself) becoming wallpaper/cypher. I liked how rodney regressed around her, it was a nice touch, but something that is a nice touch once can be itchy if done for long. All the stuff about job duplication is both true (well, it is!) and non-conclusive (the writers could give her a brand new hook), but from a dramatic point of view I think she's... not duplicated, but certainly there's nothing that she brings to the mix that is jumping out at me as being sorely missing from Atlantis.

If they need more / different characters, I'd prefer new made-up ones. Tailored, y'know?

I don't feel an urge to see any SG1 characters go beyond their current stamping ground, they just aren't that compelling (no offence, I think they're great, but most of what MAKES them is the setting, the Team and the continuity, for me). I could stand more of Vala, but I don't think she'd fit in SGA and I doubt another spinoff is viable, so that's that.

[Flyboy]

She's a scientist, it's what she's best at. I'm not saying she CAN'T lead, but leadership, by nature limits one's ability to focus on specialist areas, her scientific involvement would have to decrease (you remember O'Neill having to make desicions about Mess menus). I think Carter is PERFECT at leading a team of scientists. Her ideal command is one such as the Area 51 Head of Research position, but I can't see her being happy in any other form of command. Or it even being right for her.