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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Well, on the whole I did enjoy these two, but I'm hoping that things improve a little in some respects in the coming weeks.

    What I liked:

    The plots on both eps were entertaining - though hardly original. EC was basically MIB with the names changed and, for that reason, I did groan when we got to the amnesia pill. And how many times have we seen the 'horny alien rampages through Earth on a sexual binge' plot? But I enjoyed them all the same and didn't hold that against them.

    *Loved* the new characters. All but Owen, who so far leaves me cold. But he may grow on me.

    Also deeply intrigued by this severed hand that Jack seems so desperately fond of. <g>

    Cardiff looked enchanting as ever and it was a nice change to hear those Welsh accents. But do we have to have so many shots of the Millenium Center? Please, enough already. I'll accept that it's a stunning building, but Cardiff surely has more to offer than just that. Some variety in the locations would be nice.

    Oh and nice little tingle of ship between Gwen and Jack. Looking forward to seeing where that heads.

    What I didn't like:

    Well, I did feel that RTD was trying way too hard to let us know this was an 'adult' show. The cussing, the off colour jokes, the lesbian makeout, gay kiss and the blatant and heavy-handed sexual themes and imagery in DO all just seemed forced to me. Don't get me wrong - such things neither offend nor bother me, usually. But I do like to get the impression they are there for a reason. I never felt that any of these elements advanced the plots or told us anything about the characters. I just had this image of RTD gleefully rubbing his hands and anticipating the free publicity and the tabloid headlines: "Dr Who Spinoff Lesbo Snog Shocks Granny In Brighton!". Shock! Horror! Well...no. Just irritation and boredom from this viewer. So I'm hoping to see less of this stuff in forthcoming eps.

    To be honest, it smacked of the recent trend - mostly in US shows - of trying to cram in as much steam and controversial material into your premiere eps as you can get, in an attempt to snag that teen male demo. Which just annoy me generally, anyway.

    But, on the whole, these were fun and I'm looking forward to next week. I never expect too much from pilot eps, given how much time they have to spend on introducing us to new characters, locations, situations etc.

    BTW...I may have missed something and am going to have to watch again to listen more carefully, but Suzie's conversation with Gwen and her death confused me entirely. I have no idea what she was up to, who she was working for or what her motives were. I garner that she had betrayed Torchwood in some sense and was now fleeing for her life before the rest of the team found out. Okay. Get that. So..um...why then did she pause in her fleeing to engage Gwen and tell her all of this? What did she gain by that? What was her purpose? It made no sense to me if she was intending to vanish into the night and never be heard of again. And to do it right out in the open, in front of the Torchwood building - which she *knew* was surveilled at all times and that they could be seen by the team....well, it made no logical sense to me at all. But, maybe, all will become clear on a second viewing. Who knows?

    ETA: Okay, now I've read the rest of the comments:

    I liked Ianto a lot (Would you be wanting me to do any attacking, sir?).
    That was my favourite line, I think, and the moment I fell in love with Ianto. <g> I think it also gives an indication that he's a lot more than just a receptionist.

    And, I see that I've missed something along the way (in Dr. Who?). As everyone seems to know that the severed hand belongs to the Doctor. When did this happen? I need details, people!

    Albion
    Last edited by Albion; October 23rd, 2006 at 03:29 AM.
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

  2. #22
    Chief Master Sergeant Othere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Signal View Post
    I'm going to reserve judgement until after "Day One", I wasnt hugely impressed...
    Can't say I was overly impressed either, I thought they crossed the line a couple of times, but thats just me. Maybe it was because I spent the first 15 minutes of it locked outside the house, but I dont think seeing the very beginning would have made that much of a difference. There were moments when I was like 'get on with it' and I wasn't overly keen on the second ep. I thought filming in a girls toilet (as in CCTV) was illegal!
    Just thought it was all a bit naff, but then i was very tired and cold from a long day at work so maybe the next episode will come across better. Will reserve judgment until then.
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  3. #23
    Lieutenant Colonel Elinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Note to Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Othere View Post
    Just thought it was all a bit naff
    Darn...that was the word I was going to use, but you got there first!!

    I think this show is trying much too hard to be super-cool, sexy and 'X-filesy'. Obviously they're making the point that this show is for 'grown-ups', what with the swearing, sex and gory bits! Trouble is, I don't feel it was done very well and came across as...well...naff!! Dr Who does have a certain charm to it that keeps me watching....I didn't get that feeling with Torchwood I'm afraid.


  4. #24
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Albion
    Oh and nice little tingle of ship between Gwen and Jack. Looking forward to seeing where that heads.
    Oh God I hope not. If RTD 'ship's Gwen and Jack to appease the American audience then he needs a smacking, it will NEVER work Jack's too used to bed hopping, now a threesome with Gwen and her boyfriend I can see him doing, that would shock the Granny's in Brighton

  5. #25
    First Lieutenant BC - 303's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Im looking forward to next week, when its halfway through THEN i will judge what ive seen so far.
    Im expecaily looking forward to "CyberWoman" which is Ep. 4
    Hola

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  6. #26
    Major General Willow'sCat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Second eppy.

    I liked it, not in love with it...

    The plot was pretty threadbare, and although I actually laughed at the masturbation scene I think maybe they could have not gone there at all... I don't know sometimes less is more. They may just still be trying to prove a point, a silly useless point....

    I didn't connect with the female victim, that was a pity as I think it may have been more powerful if I could have related to her more, but these shows rarely have that kind of time anyway.

    Was it just me or was that hand so The Doctors! Jack cradling The Hand! Aw... and Eew! LOL! What is Jack thinking keeping that * thing*

    Jack seemed a little off in this episode, not sure if it is because they want to make him different from how he was in Doctor Who or whether it was just bad scripting, also John needs to learn how to hold a gun, I wasn't buying it, hopefully he gets better in those scenes as time goes on.

    Overall, a good episode but not as good as the opener there is some room for improvement.

    Oh and can someone please slap Owen! NOW!

  7. #27
    First Lieutenant Chaka's_Mum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Albion
    Cardiff looked enchanting as ever and it was a nice change to hear those Welsh accents. But do we have to have so many shots of the Millenium Center? Please, enough already. I'll accept that it's a stunning building, but Cardiff surely has more to offer than just that. Some variety in the locations would be nice.
    They showed an arty aerial view of my Office Building! I'm still not sure whether I'm happy about being reminded that I had to get up and go to work in the morning...

    With a bit of luck, now we've established where Torchwood is and all that stuff, locations might go a bit wider. Certainly there were plenty of night-shots in the city centre, though daytime ones had to be in less busy areas. I can see the 'hospital car park' where Gwen vroomed off in the cop car from my office window, for example. Oh, how sad I am...

    Right. Name dropping over.

    I thought it was OK in parts - a bit of a curate's egg. Needless to say it was hampered by the need to introduce the characters and set the scene; so hopefully things will get going more up to speed next week. Certainly Russell T was determined to set the 'this is not a kiddie prog' tone from the outset - lots of gratuitous effing and blinding, buckets of blood and a bit of rumpy pumpy in a club toilet (oh look - irresistible pheromones again!), not to mention that randy bouncer; don't you know you'll go blind, mate? It had its fair share of naffness, which comes from trying to establish the plot from scratch, I guess. Nice that they kept references to the Doctor largely in the background with only a few references where necessary. Maybe not something to write home about - but enough to make me go back and have another look next week.

    Fascinating that Jack can't die. He seems to have become a kind of Whovian equivalent of Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged. No wonder he's so attached to a disembodied hand - which is indeed the Doctor's. It's the one that got chopped off last Christmas.

    By the way, Russell T. No ship. None. At All. Don't even go there.

    And Owen? Grow up, you plonker. Alien 'make me attractive' spray? Come on!

  8. #28
    Lieutenant Colonel Matt G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Oh come on...yeah I know the 'make me attractive' spray isn't exactly original(who remembers Red Dwarf's sexual magnetism virus) but I can't think of any single guy that wouldn't have been grinning...what made me give Owen the thumbs down was his using it to rip couples apart!

    In the meantime...decent start though it leaves a ton of unanswered questions.

    1. I'm not sure whether to be annoyed at the writers assuming that no viewer's had dealings with Jack before or not. I suppose there are some that wouldn't touch regular Who with a bargepole though and the idea could certainly operate in it's own universe.

    2. Gwen, you're dealing with a guy who is clearly familiar with alien/advanced tech, certainly acts like "21st century Earth" isn't home and the only previous reference you've been able to find for him is from 1941 when he clearly isn't that old! Why can't you work out that he's a time traveller?

    3. On the other hand I did like that Gwen had found her niche as Jane Average.

    4. Liked the subtle references to the Doctor.

    5. Didn't like the fact that I only feel I know Jack, Gwen and Owen so far!

    Overall, decent but not spectacular. Will check it out next week.

  9. #29
    Chief Master Sergeant Starbuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka's_Mum View Post
    By the way, Russell T. No ship. None. At All. Don't even go there.
    Agreed.

    If there is going to be ANY shipping whatsoever, it must be of the Jack/Doctor variety.

    That is all.
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  10. #30
    Lieutenant General Alipeeps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    And, I see that I've missed something along the way (in Dr. Who?). As everyone seems to know that the severed hand belongs to the Doctor. When did this happen? I need details, people!
    Details, you say? Okay? In The Christmas Invasion (the first full ep starring David Tennant), the Doctor has a swordfight with the leader of the Sycorax (big ugly aliens) on top of the alien ship hovering above London. The Sycorax nearly wins when he knocks the Doctor down and chops off his sword hand! Sword and hand fall over the edge of the ship and disappear from view (I'd hate to have been the unlucky person that the sword landed on! )

    Luckily for the doctor - and unluckily for the Sycorax - he was still within the first 24 (or was it 48?) hours of his regeneration cycle so he had just enough residual energy left to grow a brand new hand! With which he proceed to whup said Sycorax's ass!

    That enough detail for you?

  11. #31
    Lieutenant General Alipeeps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G View Post
    2. Gwen, you're dealing with a guy who is clearly familiar with alien/advanced tech, certainly acts like "21st century Earth" isn't home and the only previous reference you've been able to find for him is from 1941 when he clearly isn't that old! Why can't you work out that he's a time traveller?
    And, despite the fact that she herself has mentioned on several occasions that the only Capt. Jack Harkness on record disappeared in 1941 AND that Jack wears "period military" wear, it hasn't occured to her to connect the two and realise that, yes, he dresses in the kind of clothes commonly worn in......1941!!

  12. #32
    Chief Master Sergeant Starbuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Alipeeps View Post
    ...so he had just enough residual energy left to grow a brand new hand! With which he proceed to whup said Sycorax's ass!
    Cause his new hand was a FIGHTIN' HAND!
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

    Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

    But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?


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  14. #34
    Data ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Yes. I thought the same thing. And it also reminded me of that ep of Atlantis.

  15. #35
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

    Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

    But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?
    Hear hear FOB, I agree with everything you say, it's no better than taking advantage of a drunk woman and saying "She was asking for it"

  16. #36
    Data ShadowMaat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    I do have a few questions about the first ep-

    Is Cardiff really that small that people can run everywhere? Or is it just that the Torchwood facility is conveniently central to everything?

    And why would you run when you've been told you've been drugged? Doesn't that speed up the process? And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?

  17. #37
    Lieutenant General Alipeeps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Cause his new hand was a FIGHTIN' HAND!
    It sure was!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    Has it occured to anyone else.... how truely wrong the "make me attractive" spray is.

    Maybe this is me having no sense of fun...

    But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?
    Yeah, that was a little disturbing. Especially the way he went out with the express intent of using that drug to get what he wanted. Alien Rophypnol...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat View Post
    And why would you run when you've been told you've been drugged? Doesn't that speed up the process? And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?
    I thought maybe the whole running thing might be an attempt to stay awake? Exertion might stave off the sedative for a while? I thought she was dumb to go for the computer - I was thinking she'd be better off grabbing a camcorder and recording herself a message with the information. A) Torchwood can't log on and delete that and b) she'd be a lot more likely to beleive that the next day than to beleive an incoherent note on the computer.

  18. #38
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMaat View Post
    And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?
    I wondered that, the deleting of the message on the computer stood out a mile.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    Details, you say? Okay? In The Christmas Invasion (the first full ep starring David Tennant), the Doctor has a swordfight with the leader of the Sycorax (big ugly aliens) on top of the alien ship hovering above London. The Sycorax nearly wins when he knocks the Doctor down and chops off his sword hand! Sword and hand fall over the edge of the ship and disappear from view (I'd hate to have been the unlucky person that the sword landed on! )

    Luckily for the doctor - and unluckily for the Sycorax - he was still within the first 24 (or was it 48?) hours of his regeneration cycle so he had just enough residual energy left to grow a brand new hand! With which he proceed to whup said Sycorax's ass!
    Oh dear God - of course he did! Thanks for clearing that up. I remember now. But...how do we know the severed hand Jack has is that hand then? (Although I suppose you could make an educated guess given that it's probably improbable that Jack could come across two severed hands just lying around) How did Jack get...erm...hold of it? That was the main reason I couldn't place this event. I was trying to think of a Dr. Who ep with Jack in it where the Doctor lost his hand. Well, also, sword fights just bore me, so I ff through that bit when I watched it. Which only tends to prove the theory that you should never ff through anything on a first showing just in case you miss something important!

    Albion
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Torchwood Episode Discussion

    But I call that rape. If they have sex I mean. Basically, how is that any different from date rape pills? The guy was altering the woman's perception using a mind altering drug in order to have sex with her. By standard definitions, that is rape. Does anyone else see that?
    Yes, I was aware of the moral issues with this one, too. In fact, I'm just realising that that's probably why Owen leaves me so cold and why I haven't warmed to him as a character as I have the others. He came across as pretty much a creep with this one. And leaving the 'taking advantage' and rape issues - think of the repercussions he must have caused in the lives of that couple. They probably broke up because her boyfriend thinks she was about to cheat on him. That kind of messing with people's lives - strangers' lives - is sick.

    And why would you waste time running to get to your comp when a pen and a writable surface have to be a lot closer... and more durable?
    I thought this myself when I saw she'd written remember on the pad. Why wouldn't you write it all down on the pad? Only thing I can figure is that writting it down longhand might have been slower and she knew she had little time to get it down. I've spent so many years doing all of my writing on a computer keyboard that I find writing longhand is a really laborious process these days because I'm no longer in the habit of it. I get cramp in my fingers after just a few paras. So maybe that was why Gwen chose the computer - for speed. She should have back it up onto disk though, para by para. That would have foxed them.

    Just heard that four out of five reviewers on Five Live this afternoon have been saying pretty much what the majority view is here. 1/ that the adult stuff was forced and desperately gratuitious. 2/ that it's boring seeing the same Cardiff locations constantly. and 3/ That, apparently, you can only be cool in Cardiff if you're standing on top of a building. <g> That last one makes me laugh because my husband's verdict at the end of DO was "Do these people always have to stand on top of buildings when they hold a conversation?"

    I was thinking she'd be better off grabbing a camcorder and recording herself a message with the information. A) Torchwood can't log on and delete that and b) she'd be a lot more likely to beleive that the next day than to beleive an incoherent note on the computer.
    Very good point!

    Albion
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

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