A ZPM powered Lantean warship vs Wraith cruisers, check your preconceptions

[Mister Oragahn]

The Tria, from The Return pt I.

Transcript source

McKAY: It’s an Ancient warship. It’s possibly Aurora class.
CALDWELL: Who’s flying it?
McKAY: I ... would imagine Ancients.
CALDWELL: But there hasn’t been any of them around for over ten thousand years.
(Rodney sighs.)
McKAY: Relativity?! Look, remember, for them only a handful of years have passed.
SHEPPARD: Don’t those ships have hyperdrives?
McKAY: Well, maybe their hyperdrive was damaged in a battle with the Wraith. It happened to us all the time. Maybe it conked out on the way and they were forced to continue at as close to light speed as possible. That would explain how they got a million light years away from Pegasus without having to leave a million years ago.
CALDWELL: You know the subspace drive specs better than I do, Doctor, but I’m not sure an Aurora class ship has the power to do what you’re suggesting.
McKAY: Well, maybe they have a ZedPM.
(John perks up.)
SHEPPARD: That would be worth finding out.
McKAY: OK, we need to send them a message before they get out of range and we have to jump ahead. Uh, something like, you know, “We are humans from Earth currently occupying Atlantis, uh, yada, yada, yada ...”
SHEPPARD: Why don’t we just ask ‘em to slow down?
(Kleinman’s console beeps.)
KLEINMAN: Colonel Caldwell. The unidentified vessel is slowing down.
SHEPPARD: Maybe they heard me.
McKAY (looking at the pilot’s console): No, they saw us. They’re not just slowing down – they’re slamming on the brakes something like twenty-seven gees.
CALDWELL: So now what?
(There’s a flash at the front of the Bridge and a hologram of a blonde woman appears. Her clothing is similar to that worn by the Ancients on Aurora.)
HELIA: Unknown vessel, I’m Captain Helia of the Lantean warship Tria. Our ship has suffered damage. We’ve scanned your vessel and determined that it is capable of hyperspace travel. We’ve begun deceleration manoeuvres. Will you render assistance in the form of hyperspace transport?

SOME TIME (DAYS?) LATER. Jack O’Neill and Richard Woolsey of the International Oversight Advisory have travelled to Atlantis and are sitting at the table in the Conference Room. Helia stands opposite them.
HELIA: We were in a battle with Wraith cruisers. They proved too much for us so we started back to Atlantis only to be told that the final evacuation was already in progress. I decided to push on to Earth and join the evacuees. Even when our hyperdrive failed we decided to continue on.

NIGHT TIME. ELIZABETH’S QUARTERS. Elizabeth is packing books into a metal box. Her door chime sounds and she goes over to the door and touches the wall panel. The door opens and she finds John standing there, writing on a notepad.
WEIR: Colonel.
SHEPPARD: Doctor.
WEIR: Come in.
SHEPPARD (walking in): Well, we are way ahead of schedule, ready to head out at 0800. Daedalus is gonna take most of the gear. People and our odds and ends will make their way through the Stargate, thanks to the Ancients’ new ZeePM.

So evidence shows that Aurora class warships have at least one slot ready for a ZPM.
If warships have the kind of power conduits found on Atlantis, that is, able to transfer enough energy so that nearly 60% of a ZPM is entirely drained within seconds, we're looking at a tough mama here.

Logically, a warship would come with the top of the cream of power conduits, for obvious reasons, but above all because they were designed long after Atlantis.

I don't see Lanteans dumbing down their warships without any good reason.

Besides, those Wraith cruisers were of a significant threat to the Tria. Helia didn't mention a fleet, but rather made a sort of vague referencial enumeration that would correspond to a few ones.
Cruisers rarely fly on their own, and even less when there's supposedly a fleet of them, which wasn't the case here.
The larger group of cruisers seen without a hiveship was in episode Aurora, and that was only two of them, which incidentally wouldn't be worth the labelling as a fleet.

[Gateboy13]

There had to of been more to the story than what Helia was telling. Perhaps the cruisers were what remained after a large battle. For all we know the Tria could have wiped out a half dozen hive ships first and took damage in the process making it vulnerable to the remaining wraith cruisers. I just find it hard to believe that an Ancient warship would have trouble taking out a handful of Wraith cruisers by themselves. Even without a ZPM it should be no problem. After all a single jumper firing one drone can cause some pretty good damage to a Wraith cruiser.

[Janus]

There had to of been more to the story than what Helia was telling. Perhaps the cruisers were what remained after a large battle. For all we know the Tria could have wiped out a half dozen hive ships first and took damage in the process making it vulnerable to the remaining wraith cruisers. I just find it hard to believe that an Ancient warship would have trouble taking out a handful of Wraith cruisers by themselves. Even without a ZPM it should be no problem. After all a single jumper firing one drone can cause some pretty good damage to a Wraith cruiser.

True, one drone did put a nice dent into a Wraith cruiser. But if Hellia did leave something out, there's no way for us to know for sure in the short-term. Maybe 'The Return, part II' will give some answers. It also depends on what happened to the Tria. If it is still in the void between galaxies, they might able visit it and have looks at the logs. (They were able to access systems on the Aurora and the Orion, so checking out Tria's systems shouldn't be a problem.)

[FallenAngelII]

It doesn't matter if Atlantis was designed far before the Lantean warships. Do you still see millions of yearold items being used today without them having been upgraded some?

Sure, we had spears and bows and arrows back then, but they're much better now. The Ancients were in Pegasus for millions of years. Most of Atlantis should've been upgraded.

[Dutch_Razor]

Maybe those Cruisers were numbering in the 2 digits

[wise one]

with a zpm wouldnt the shields last forever even if they out of drones they could just retreat without being blown up

[Ranlier]

Its also possible that the Ancients simply didn't THINK they could use the ZPM to power the ship's sheilds and weapons.

Remember, we've seen consistent proof that the abilities of the Ancients lie in DEVELOPING technology, not so much using it. In both galaxies, the Ancients were overconfident in the superiority of their tech that they never developed tactical talent.

They either didn't think about attaching the ZPM during the attack, or more likely the Tria does NOT have a ZPM "slot" and the engineers had to jury-rig a conduit after they safely escaped.

[Mister Oragahn]

with a zpm wouldnt the shields last forever even if they out of drones they could just retreat without being blown up

Well, technically, an Aurora could even easily withstand a direct planet busting hit from this:



Assuming the power conduits and the shields do good use of a ZPM's energy.
Well, it's the Ancients.
Seems uber? There are scifi universes where planets are destroyed by the mere engine ejecta.

[Ravroz]

I'm not sure why it is said that an Aurora class ship has a slot for a ZPM. It could just be that they didn't have it tied into the power systems when they left. Plus they could have just tied it into the ships power systems, much in the same way they did with the deddy. they could have just hooked in the ZPM after their hyperdrive gave out and they needed to get as close to the speed of light as possible with their sublight engines.

[PG15]

Has anyone thought about the possiblity that the Tria was...damaged?

I mean, having a ZPM is one thing, but if your shield circuits are fried (could happen), then it wouldn't matter how much power you have.

And at the time of the Lantians, we have no idea how many Wraith ships there were. There could've been dozens upon dozens of cruisers.

[Mister Oragahn]

I'm not sure why it is said that an Aurora class ship has a slot for a ZPM. It could just be that they didn't have it tied into the power systems when they left. Plus they could have just tied it into the ships power systems, much in the same way they did with the deddy. they could have just hooked in the ZPM after their hyperdrive gave out and they needed to get as close to the speed of light as possible with their sublight engines.

It would not be possible if the ship's systems could not handle high energy flux from a ZPM.
And then, if a ship can handle a ZPM at a higher power transfer, then it comes to most common sense to have a slot ready for them.

McKay clearly says that the power consumption is enormous, and only a ZPM or something close would be able to provide enough energy.

The real question is all about the Aurora class' energy transfers.
Again, Atlantis' transfer rates are extremely high.

In fact, I think we have evidence that the Aurora's power conduits are not so good, since even with a ZPM, the Tria could not get rid of cruisers.

The ZPM could be plugged to the city and still hold enough energy, so obviously, the Tria didn't flee because the ZPM was depleted.

2 theories:

1. It shows that it's not a question of total energy quantity, but a question of power limitation. Seeing that their reactor could not provide enough energy, the Lanteans bridged the ZPM to the Tria's systems.
This provided enough extra energy for the shield and for a final hyperspace jump before the hyperdrive felt apart later on.
But it was barely sufficient. No matter the amount of energy the ZPM had, energy could not be transfered fast enough.
Either the power conduits are limited, or the bridge they hastily crafted was not strong enough.

2. They plugged the ZPM only after fleeing. Their reactor was good as dead, they hyperdrive suddenly failed, and they needed to fly as fast as possible to the galaxy. So they tied the ZPM to the power conduits.

Now, that was for the conservative explanations. Would there be one that works for the high end figure?
Is there a possibility that an Aurora could naturally draw power from a ZPM at a rate similar to Atlantis, and still fit with the events?

How could a hyperdrive be damaged if the Tria was sufficiently protected?
How could the ship be threatened by cruisers if the ZPM was backing up the shields?

Well, there are possibilities as well, which are less about technical issues but more about choices and bad luck.
An example. The cruisers which the Tria fought against were not the first enemies the crew faced.

HELIA: We were in a battle with Wraith cruisers. They proved too much for us so we started back to Atlantis only to be told that the final evacuation was already in progress. I decided to push on to Earth and join the evacuees. Even when our hyperdrive failed we decided to continue on.

Since when cruisers prove too much for a fully operational Lantean warship?

Explanation: the Tria had already been fighting against more ships. Where, how many, how long, it's all up to your imagination, but it's was a tough battle, and the Tria escaped.
Say they jumped away. They arrived at a location in Pegasus where they though they were out of danger, but they were caught by surprise with defenses down.

Helia's crew didn't see this coming, and the cruisers severaly damaged the ship before they had time to raise the shields. This explains why the cruisers were able to threaten the Tria.
Helia had the ship hyperspace out as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the damage spread so far that the hyperdrive didn't last the whole trip.

EDIT: this latest option would in fact defend the idea that an Aurora class' power conduits aren't that bad at all in fact, probably on par with Atlantis level power conduits, and that it was just a matter of bad luck which put the Tria in such a dire state.

[knowles2]

Since when cruisers prove too much for a fully operational Lantean warship?

Explanation: the Tria had already been fighting against more ships. Where, how many, how long, it's all up to your imagination, but it's was a tough battle, and the Tria escaped.
Say they jumped away. They arrived at a location in Pegasus where they though they were out of danger, but they were caught by surprise with defenses down.

Helia's crew didn't see this coming, and the cruisers severaly damaged the ship before they had time to raise the shields. This explains why the cruisers were able to threaten the Tria.
Helia had the ship hyperspace out as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the damage spread so far that the hyperdrive didn't last the whole trip.

I have to go with this option as it fit with all the facts that we have currently, also it would make good story to tell.

[wise one]

what i dont get is that the the tria had no hyperdrive and needed to get to the speed of light so wouldnt it of hit the first thing it came to contact with like a planet or a ship like i mean 10,000 years would of hit like a ship or something


and if the wraith hyperdrive is like the speed of light aswell then that would mean it would take a hive 10,000 years to reach the milky way whereas the upgraded hives in no mans land took like 1-2 days or weeks just to reach outside the peg void

im just confused now

[Ranlier]

They were travelling in the intergalactic void- no planets, no dust, no nothing to hit.

[Mister Oragahn]

But with shields obviously up, just in case. I mean, nearing c, anything small particle will release enough energy to leave a large continent sized crater on Earth.

The fun thing is that in, what? 10000 years, going at near .999...c, the Tria was halfway between the two galaxies.
If there's a problem in the maths, we'll just have to chack it up to the acceleration phase. On the same hands, acceleration/deceleration seems to be peanuts for an Aurora class working with a ZPM.
And it should. With inertia dampeners and the energy of ZPM, it's in fact logical that they could slow down so quickly from near c to lower than sound velocities, or something the Daedalus could at least reach in a quick time.